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I think we need to stop framing UIL State every year with the concern of who or who does not go to Grand Nats. UIL State every year has many advantages for hundreds of programs over the 6-7 possible bands that may go to GN. If BOA particpation drops, then they will either have to make changes or move the date to accomdate. Texas is in its own category when it comes to marching band compared to the rest of the country and SA particpation is a prime example. I think we can all agree that it needs a semi and is the only one that is probably more competitive than GN

They placed 15th last year, so with 14 going to finals, they’ll certainly be in the conversation.

Final predictions and thoughts on what will be a very competitive super regional: 1. Hebron (M/GE) This is probably the only band I'm fairly confident in placing where I have them. Hebron has somehow raised the level for them in terms of demand both musically and visually and are putting out some absolutely insane sounds. The brass is inexplicably incredible and visually they're nailing some very difficult drill sets. No one in the country can play as good as them and I think they will repeat here and at UIL State. 2. Vandegrift It hurts me slightly to predict Vandegrift here as it would be three years in a row they place 2nd. That said, they've got another great show with some super cool music from Tron. While I prefer Juliet Letters, I really like that they're also pushing the envelope in demand and think they're doing a good job with it. They may have lost to Vista Ridge at area but I think they'll bounce back and at least grab a medal here. 3. Ronald Reagan (V) I think Reagan's show this year is a better version of what they had last year. Visually they have some really nice drill moves and I think they may have my favorite preshow of the season. They still sound excellent, especially the brass (great trombone soloists), and their color guard/dance team is phenomenal. 4. Cedar Ridge So happy to see them follow up on their fantastic season last year with an even better one! The things they're doing with an ensemble half the size of some bands here is super impressive. The brass is incredible and the percussion is top tier as always. Love this show. 5. Claudia Taylor Johnson For a show that's a little more lowkey they've still got a crazy amount of demand in their music and drill and are pulling it off. The ballad has grown on me over the season to be one of my favorites, and I think the preshow is super creative and very cool. It's not as cohesive as some of their past shows, but I still enjoy it very much. 6. Flower Mound Probably the most creative show concept I've seen anywhere this season. The artwork is super creative and well done and I love their uniforms to match it. It's not my favorite FM show, I think the drill is a little meh at certain points, but at the same time there are some moments like the ending that really blow my mind. Musically they are outstanding of course. 7. Vista Ridge There are few bands that can make me raise my eyebrows and think wow when I hear a full ensemble moment and Vista Ridge is one of them. They sound so incredible in those moments, especially the ending of their show. After watching their area performance there are a couple of timing miscues here and there, but nothing that can't be easily fixed. I'm a fan! 8. Marcus While their show is not as difficult as some other bands here, they are still remarkably clean. Visually there are some really cool moments like the pivot in the beginning set. The orchestral sound they produce is iconic and I'm expecting to see some very high performance captions. 9. Coppell Love to see them continuing their upward trajectory after a breakout season last year! They might have my favorite ballad of the season with a beautiful sax soloist. While I'm not as sold on the closer as their opener/ballad, I give them props for putting Beethoven in Havana on the field as I don't think I've ever seen that before. Really great show! 10. Cedar Park Really impressive to see them field such a massive group yet still sound very balanced and clean. Their ballad is a highlight of the season and I'm not at all surprised to see them win Waco so convincingly. There are a few moments in the drill that are a little dirty for me, but I think they are solidly in finals. 11. The Woodlands Director changes can be hard to weather, especially when you lose multiple directors, but the Woodlands are still very strong this year! The show is a little reminiscent of last year and isn't quite as heavy-hitting, but they still produce excellent sounds and their soloists are just as good as ever. 12. Round Rock It's great to see Round Rock bounce back from what was probably a disappointing season last year. Visually I think the design is much stronger than many of their recent shows, and they still sound as good as they always have. They're definitely towards the upper end of the finals bubble and I expect to see them in finals. 13. Westlake They've got a really creative show this year! I think they hit the mark on the noir theming of the show. Their clarinet soloist is really quite spectacular and the ensemble sounds excellent. Really awesome show concept and a definite crowd-pleaser. 14. Cy-Fair I would love to see them cap off their outstanding season so far with a finals appearance here! Really fantastic sounds from their brass and the uniforms make for some pretty cool visual moments when they turn around. The percussion is also very impressive and the woodwinds do a great job with their runs. Great trumpet soloist too! In the bubble: Keller, Leander, Rouse, James Bowie, Pearland, LD Bell, Timber Creek, Waxahachie, Seven Lakes, Klein Oak, Westwood, Lake Travis, Hendrickson, a dozen other bands I've forgotten. Seriously, the finals bubble is just massive. Of the bands I have listed I think any of the top 11 bands I have down could get into the top half. Any of the bands I have listed in the bubble could also get into finals and wouldn't surprise me. This contest is just ridiculously competitive.

That’s a bridge too far for me. Top programs are not propped up by the “scaffolding” of their prior achievements or reputation. This is an extremely complex activity and excellence and judging is not always clearly understood by the crowd in the stands. However, it is earned and then demonstrated repeatedly, or not. It’s definitely difficult to attain, but once achieved, excellence also typically has a momentum that is not easily lost. But it has nothing to do with reputation. For example, an excellent program must get their freshman up to the level the other students have already achieved. Additionally the program has already cracked the code and established the environment necessary to accomplish this year after year. In contrast, an up and coming program may need to increase the performance level of many more students across the classes and is also still working to establish an environment that consistently produces excellence. This is what makes it so difficult to break into the next level. Not reputation “scaffolding”. I will agree the Judges know these programs, but I can assure you they have no respect for reputation once the actual performance and judging begins. Examples abound in the relatively recent history of both Area B (including this year) and the SMBC. I’d like to be more specific but naming programs that may have come up short (past or present) can unpleasantly fire up forum participants so this is where I bow out and respectfully agree to disagree. In closing I will say I suspect many people will find the process less frustrating if they embrace this explanation and let go of the belief that “It’s always the same bands…” due to anything other than just that day’s performance. It can make the long journey to sustained excellence more understandable and satisfying.

i'm catching up on area vids. great work, kiddos! first of all, ummm, COPPELL! holy cow! huge, rich sounds. loving the super groovy recap of Beethoven at the end. so rhythmically challenging. guard is large and in charge. is that opening flute from Atonement? i heard Atonement mentioned + the typewriter sounds and got super excited. brilliant novel, brilliant film. music a little muddy after opener, but sooo cool. still love FM's concept more than probably any other this year. super duper meta. super duper band. capes are tasteful and don't overwhelm the visual upstairs *cough*Broken Arrow*cough*. the skeleton of the design not my favorite from them, by that i mean just the pure drill and music, but it's still super impressive. some big big moments and big big sounds. some tuning issues here and there also, wondering how cold it was. twhs i couldn't be more proud of. super improvement. i've been around a long time now and know that a lot of bands don't weather major staff changes very well. so thank u, new directors, for stepping into the pressure cooker and managing it well, and to the kids who stuck w/ the program and kept it going strong. i'm so happy for them. they could honestly get 14th place here and i'd be thrilled. Vista Ridge. this show is such a fascination. i've professed my love for it a lot already. aggressive, intelligent, strange, always engaging. BLAZINGLY difficult, this is what u get when u don't water down a Vanderkolff drill program. performance nooot quite there imo, maybe in another week, and the guard is too small for the band, but it excites me so much i don't really care. honestly not the fairest comparison b/w vista's guard and vandy's dance team. like, honestly, i'm not going to tell as much upstairs if u lose your balance on a chaines turn, but i'm sure as f*** gonna notice if flags are going up and down at different times and rifles are dropped. waaay more exposed, waaay bigger risk. a little surprised Vandy didn't come out on top at area. maybe only a little weaker than usual, usual being like top 3 SA. i will say this, the "experimental marching" was a liiittle oversold. hahaha. it's the same Vandy visual, but w/ glow sticks. hahaha. now the music is different. more contemporary. that change is good. is the grid some sort of Matrix thing? what i love most about Cedar Ridge is i guess the clarity. i never don't know what they're going for. i really like the depth to the set, the shadowing. the character moments. the percussion. show makes perfect sense. pretty strong musically at area this past weekend. visual is simple and pretty clean. maybe i'm not connecting w/ it as much as the others bc it's a little too simple for my tastes. but they can surely execute. will look for others later. great great job everyone. can't wait for those fancy schmancy ~*inDOoR~* performances.

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/policy/October-2022-Legislative-Council-Packet.pdf Take a look at page 10. If you don't feel like reading: the new policy is pending approval by the Commissioner of Education. May start in 2023-2024 or 2024-2025, depends on logistics

It wasn't originally though. So when you choose to go to GN you do so ahead of time and prep your show in advance. When they made an exception last year to also have 6A state due to COVID it probably put a small kink in some of the bands plans. It's absolutely hard as heck for bands to compete on Friday/Saturday then Monday/Tuesday and then Thur thru Saturday. One of them has to give and most will give up GN due to costs. Starting next year 2023. Still needs a final vote but no one thinks that will fail.

Maybe I am an expert? 🤪 Talk about chippy. God forbid not everyone sees eye to eye

For smaller bands 1A/2A/3A having state every year is a boon. There is no way these bands can really compete on the BOA stage, but having the state opportunity every year is a fantastic thing for those programs. Even for those 4A/5A/6A bands that don't have the money to compete with the BOA big boys this is also great news. I know I know people hate hearing the term money, but it plays a role if you like it or not.

I’m actually glad that they didn’t do both contests, controversial I know. Doing both contests is just too much for the marchers, it’s already exhausting enough. I don’t think it’s an accident that the two highest placing bands at GN skipped 1 of the 2 contests. Feedback is important, but so is rest.

As is probably far and wide known by now, the top 30-40 bands here would likely make finals at ANY other event in the country. Texas is insane

In terms of contests, I'm super excited about it! On the other hand, there was always something that felt so special about only getting 2 opportunities to advance to State. With it being every year, it will at some point just feel like another contest for those who advance to it every single time. It will also be more expensive for those in 5A-6A. I also think Super Regional may become a contest people skip if they want to do Grand Nationals because of how much money would be spent on the trips.

I would be so proud if both TC and Keller were in state finals.

I still to this day think cedar ridge should’ve made finals that year, I watched them in my band hall on flo and thought they were for surely in.

Okay everyone, now that this comp is over and I've got some free time, here's my full breakdown on the contest. I'm goanna do prelims first and then finals. I was only able to attend the first two blocks of prelims, but I had a friend there for the whole thing and got his feedback (we marched together so I trust his feedback). Prelims: Overall great stuff from everyone. You could definitely feel the emotions coming from the kids and this was most everyone's final comp who was here. The weather was defiantly a major factor, especially during the first two blocks, but for the most part the kids were able to push through. I will admit, I was really surprised that Hays nor McCallum made finals, but I don't know how I'd have out of finals. Of course, the obvious two would be Richland, who did have some electronic issues in prelims, but again I'm no judge. McCallum in 19th though just doesn't make sense, however, it seemed like this show seemed to do better at UIL judged comps than boa, and it just goes to show how different the two are. they were 3rd at area finals and then 19th here behind bands like LASA and Pieper who were at area D with McCallum and didn't even make finals. But then I remembered they were at the Vista Marching Comp which uses boa judging and they were 7th in finals. But overall, a really great prelims! Finals: I don't think I could have agreed more with the rankings. We all knew who would when and sweep captions, and I had my top 6 predictions in the right order so that was nice. However, the bottom six was kind of surprising to me. I thought personally Richland and Heritage would be one and two, but then it was Lovejoy and Argyle, which of course I couldn't have been happier about being a Lovejoy alum, but then after looking at the recaps, it did all make sense. It again goes to show just how different UIL and BOA judge. Roma, Richland, Heritage and Argyle were within the top four at area, and BC having a great season as well, but then Lovejoy, who was 9th at area finals, is able to top these groups and get 7th. This was again why I didn't make my predictions based on area, because I personally think it's not a great comp to use for as a representation of the bands. And of course, we had some major jumps from prelims to finals. Lovejoy- 10th-7th Roma- 8th- 12th And of course, a few more but again weather not being an issue made a huge difference for those groups who had to go earlier in the day. Just another amazing contest and being their live for finals was so special. Congrats again to all the bands who were here!!!

Hi I’m Landry, That was My shoe! Thanks for the compliment!

Now that all areas have finished, it seems fitting to start this thread for predictions for the state contest. The 2022 6A UIL State Marching Contest will take place at the Alamodome from November 7-8, 2021. Prelims Schedule (42) - Monday, November 7th 8:30 - Duncanville H.S. 8:45 - LD Bell H.S. 9:00 - The Woodlands College Park H.S. 9:15 - Cedar Ridge H.S. 9:30 - Pearland H.S. 9:45 - Claudia Taylor Johnson H.S. 10:00 - Timber Creek H.S. 10:15 - Cypress Woods H.S. 10:45 - Flower Mound H.S. 11:00 - Ronald Reagan H.S. 11:15 - Stephen F. Austin H.S. 11:30 - Bridgeland H.S. 11:45 - Wylie H.S. 12:00 - Keller H.S. 12:15 - Lake Travis H.S. 12:30 - Frenship H.S. 1:30 - James E. Taylor H.S. 1:45 - Hebron H.S. 2:00 - The Woodlands H.S. 2:15 - Midland H.S. 2:30 - John B. Alexander H.S. 2:45 - Hanna H.S. 3:00 - Westlake H.S. 3:15 - Waxahachie H.S. 3:30 - Dickinson H.S. 4:00 - Vista Ridge H.S. 4:15 - Tomball Memorial H.S. 4:30 - Klein Oak H.S. 4:45 - Seven Lakes H.S. 5:00 - Harlingen H.S. 5:15 - Wylie East H.S. 5:30 - Oak Ridge H.S. 5:45 - Coppell H.S. 7:00 - Marcus H.S. 7:15 - Clear Brook H.S. 7:30 - Permian H.S. 7:45 - Dawson H.S. 8:00 - Round Rock H.S. 8:15 - Vandegrift H.S. 8:30 - Dripping Springs H.S. 8:45 - McKinney Boyd H.S. 9:00 - Cy-Fair H.S. 9:15 - Exhibition - University of Incarnate Word 9:30 - Finalists Announced Judges Lee Carlson Chip Crotts Joel Denton Wayne Dillon Beth Fabrizio Mike Leitzke Hieu Nguyen Dana Pradervand Lauren Teel Ted Wemhoff Finals Schedule (14) - Tuesday, November 8th 2:00 PM - Pearland 2:15 PM - Waxahachie 2:30 PM - Round Rock 2:45 PM - Coppell 3:00 PM - Claudia Taylor Johnson 3:15 PM - Keller 3:30 PM - Marcus 4:00 PM - Ronald Reagan 4:15 PM - Vandegrift 4:30 PM - Cedar Ridge 4:45 PM - The Woodlands 5:00 PM - Flower Mound 5:15 PM - Vista Ridge 5:30 PM - Hebron

Daniel said at least next year. They don’t have a specific year yet.

It's pretty cool to see how different the culture is between military and corps style contests. Aside from the obvious differences from the performers, there are also more subtle differences in the directors and contest staff. The announcer in the military stream has a very obvious Texan accent and there are people wearing cowboy hats and polo shirts rather than full suits. Kind of hard to believe that this contest is taking place on the same field I was marching on three days ago.

Agree. It will be to BOAs best interest to try and work within the Texas UIL schedule. It is only better when Texas bands attend GN and/or if they just admit that SA Super Regional is a big deal and add a semi's.

(7) 6A Programs went to GN's last year, which was a 6A State year for them.

Honestly, I'm a little disappointed by the switch to every year state marching contests by 5A/6A schools. I think it makes total sense for the 1A-4A to go to every year but the big schools that like to factor in out of state marching contests this will be a blow. Just look at how few of TX bands are going to Grand Nationals this year due to it being a state marching contest year for them. So yeah, it's great there will be more opportunities for 5A/6A schools to advance to state...but it'll be disappointing to see fewer bands going to Grand Nationals.

Exactly. This was really driven by those programs who are small or simply don't have the budget to put on huge productions.

So one of the judges, J. Whorton, had KC 2nd in music in prelims, but then 7th in finals. Conversely that same music judge had LD Bell 11th in music in prelims, then 3rd in finals. The Judges just had a different opinion of the bands in finals than prelims. My hypothesis for this occurrence is that the strengths of KC’s performance stood out better compared with the prelims bands better than it did with the finals band, while the opposite was true for Bell. And you could say the limitations/imperfections of both bands’ performances hindered them more in the round that they placed lower in.

More than likely if TC turns out with a strong enough performance then who they perform after won’t make a difference.

Agreed. But they have been doing this dance with Waxahachie for several years now and after breaking through last year, Timber Creek has been playing with new found confidence this year. There is no longer anything tentative about their performances and it has made a huge difference. I look forward to seeing all three in Finals at the SMBC. Yeah, Coppell too, so that makes four.

I saw them and every other band at that competition and thought both scored where they should have. Like them both, as well, but thought they were scored appropriately.

You can go ahead stop with this type of stuff. If you think the top 4 bands at Area H were scored that way because they "get the benefit of the doubt," you're not existing in the same reality that everyone else is.

so I guess your 60 years of experience makes you part of the "old boys club" - keep us posted on the obituary

I think so as well. TC was ahead of keller in prelims and finals so I think it would be safe to say that TC will stay above keller in terms of uil, that is unless keller gets stupid clean in the span of just this week. Their show might not have nearly the amount of musical content that keller’s has but they’re playing the snot out of it and they sound gooooooood.

TC has been chasing Keller for some time, they have a chance for finals I think after this past weekend.

I saw two. 2019. Cedar Ridge and Westwood. They got screwed over by performing early for panel 2.

On a related note, Prosper ISD's stadium wasn't the best choice for hosting a band contest. You could hear bands warming up from the stands while watching bands perform, especially during quieter moments. Parking for buses and trucks were also very limited. (Prosper HS is next door but it's useless because there are no direct roads between PHS and PISD Stadium.)

just wanted to hop on and say congratulations to our state qualifiers and just all the bands who competed here! these young kids have worked hard all season long to get to this point, and while not everyone may get the results they wanted or wished for, all of these kids are winners and should be proud of all they hard work they've put in! Really happy for Timber Creek! After seeing them live this year at dfw, I knew this show was going to be something special by the time they get to area, and boy was I right! One of my suitemates and best friends at college went there, so now I have some bias, but I mean wow, what a day it must have been for those kids! That opening hit just gets me every time! Best of luck to everyone at the super regional and state!

For the top tier it's not so much an issue. It's in the bubble that can make it interesting. To make clear, I'm not contesting the results at all (in fact, I'm happy with it). It was just an observation of how using ordinal ranking can be different versus using raw score. As a matter of math, it could be different when a judge is able to contribute a number 1 thru 10 for ten bands versus being able to contribute a raw score that can range from 0 to 100. But as I said earlier, this opens up the possibility that one judge can skew the results. So maybe that's not a good idea either. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it. 😅 ...move along, nothing to see here 😂

yes they have a score sheet to use but in the end, what counts in the final ranking (total column) is the ordinal rank that each judge gives for every band.

judging panel for 6a is very DCI/BOA/WGI. not used to seeing so few retired TX directors on the list. hahaha.

Yeah after seeing the recap from hornrank I’m just shocked! Their visual program was way better, at least coming from someone their live for finas( although we aren’t judges) then the scores they received. I’ll be doing a full breakdown of the comp soon toda

I think the reason why the ordinal system is so wonky is that the judges are forced to rank bands with no way to indicate that the gap between bands can be different. For example judge 1 may think the difference between band 3 and 4 is big but the gap between 4 and 5 is very small, yet they are still forced to give one ordinal point difference between them. On the other hand, the ordinal system also protects against one judge "throwing the game" away. Too many competitions happening at the same time to have that many judges of the same caliber available, just a fact of life. Bottomline, I think its hard to be a judge here (or in any marching band competition with many great performing ensembles). I'm glad I don't have to do it, then again, I have no experience in marching band whatsoever (except to watch my kid play) so.... 😅

Congrats to JET and Seven Lakes! I know y'all will represent the district well.

Or it could be that I know things about the band world you just don't know. I've been around the music education scene since the 1960's. I speak from a point of fact. You are, however, welcome to your opinion even when incorrect.

it pretty much is san antonio part 2 with different judging lol

I thought that might be a problem when they first implemented the two panel system, but to be honest, I have never seen a band not make finals that should have. Even though the competition is brutal at this venue, I still see enough scoring space between bands to see clear choices made for the finals. I think people get caught up with personally liking a band that didn't make the finals more than they liked the bands that did. I just judge their making the finals by how their performance was able to score in each category and them actually earning their spot. I know it's hard as we all have biases. But if they have earned it, they have earned it.

Couldn’t agree with you more, having 2 panels only compounds the issue and make it even less a margin of error for bubble groups to make finals, not alleviate it. It goes for all SR’s that get two panels but especially so for a competition like this one😦

No it's not. It means finals is really a do over and another chance. This is not the same with BOA there are completely different treatment of those in the upper block versus the lower block and don't get me started on GE

State Champion: Hebron Next?

Veeeesta da Beaaaasta! cautiously optimistic. this happened last yr tho and they still got clobbered by Vandy at both SA contests, BOA and UIL.

Reading through the area threads and seeing all the super positive comments about all the bands throughout all the competitive levels (state qualifying programs, area finals qualifying programs and area qualifying programs) is so exciting!! Reading so many comments like “_____ band is the best they’ve ever been!” And “_____ band came to play this morning!!” Is so encouraging for the future of texas bands! Not to mention this state marching contest will feature the absolute highest quality of marching band!

I think Ore City will give Carlisle a run for their money.

Hey everyone, we are less than a week away from seeing these amazing programs compete at the third UIL State Military Contest! Below you will see who advanced and schedules- This contest will take place on November 1st, 2022 at Baylor University McLane Stadium in Waco, TX- 2A- Beckville HS Carlisle HS Harleton HS Hawkins HS Ore City HS Overton HS Shelbyville HS Timpson HS Union Grove HS 4A- Brownsboro HS Bullard HS Carthage HS Center HS Chapel Hill HS Gilmer HS Hardin-Jefferson HS Henderson HS Jacksonville HS Lindale HS Pittsburg HS Spring Hill HS Van HS Vidor HS Schedule- https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/2022_Prelims_Military_Schedule.pdf