landofwake

First of all congratulations to all the bands. So much hard work, so much dedication to the marching arts- the students are all just so amazing, it makes me so proud to be part of this activity. Just some comments. And none of this is meant to take away from anything any of the bands have achieved. These are comments about the process and not the performances, because truly they were spectacular and every band that made it to finals deserved to be there. The results in the top would probably remain the same (with some minor movement), no matter what you did to the scoring system. However, it is not only about the bands in the top. It is about the thousands of kids who've put their blood, sweat and tears into the program and deserve to be judged equally (and I am saying equally. I am not saying fairly, because I believe the judges try to be fair within their panels. Equally, as in the same judges judge all the bands). Judging 84 bands with a two panel system is like having two different contests and then comparing scores- and how often have we said that we cannot compare scores across contests. I know there is a chief judge who is trying to make panels equal but it seems pretty clear that one panel was judged marginally higher than another, and even marginal differences can make a difference when the scores are so close. I don't know what the solution is but I do know that 84 bands is just too many. Adding semis, Prelims at two different venues, regional contests being used as a prelim to get to san antonio, different contests for class 1A/2A and 3A/4A like UIL does, take top 10 from each panel and give panel awards instead of grouping the panels.... although none of these solutions will be perfect, each has some merit and deserves to be discussed. Saying it will be logistically impossible or saying it is what it is, or saying the results would not change, is doing a disservice to the activity. Yes the results would likely be the same, possibly even the rankings would be similar, but the process needs to be evaluated and overhauled if necessary. Once again, this is about the process, it is not taking away from any band or their performances.

Does anyone have the full results for yesterday's HEB Drumline Contest? Thanks

I would put them 1) Bell 2) Coppell 3) Trinity 4) Haltom 5) Richland 6) Carroll

Thanks for doing this. Very interesting. The only point I would make is that these bands were scored by one panel so there is no inflation/deflation between panels to consider. So while this tells us that the bands are more or less evenly divided, the 11-14 bands could be affected by inconsistencies between panels

Got it

Yes and no. Unless there is a way to ensure that both panels are scoring exactly the same, there is a chance that a good band or two could get sidelined. Especially in those last 4 spots where the panels are combined and next top 4 make it in. If panel A is overall more lenient than panel B, all those 4 spots could go to bands from panel A, even if panel B bands may actually be better. Also, the prelim caption awards could be similarly affected. It’s almost like taking BOA DFW and BOA Austin and combining the scores. We always talk about how we should not compare scores across contests and here we are combining two separate judging panels. How does BOA plan to (for lack of a better word) normalize scores across both panels to avoid this?

Also I think you’re underestimating Duncanville. They are historically not a BOA band and do well at UIL. This year there are just too many bands in Area B that could advance to state and I think other than Keller, the other bands- Bell, TC, Waxahachie, Prosper, Coppell, Duncanville, Haltom will be be fighting for the remaining 4 (maybe 5) spots. It will really come down to their performances on that day. I wish all bands the best. Sad we can’t take more from this Area

BOA and UIL are judged differently. I would not be so quick to dismiss Duncanville and Coppell. They have historically done better at UIL than BOA. In 2016 if I remember correctly, during prelims, both bands beat Keller. Anything can happen yes of course- especially with the addition of 5A bands to the mix. But these are solid UIL bands and they will have solid performances.

Could you share some light on why you think the MPE judging was so out of whack compared to the rest of the scores? I know the judges are highly respected and well experienced members of the community but this one just left me wondering about how one judge could have been so significantly different from the others. I think the finalists would have, for the most part, remained unchanged (maybe the order may have changed a bit and the bands in the 8-12 places may have shaken up a bit) but I am still curious to know your take on it- did it seem strange to you as well?

I think they are just so clean and something about them is just so pleasing to the eye. And their music is fantastic. But I do agree about the guard. They're more of a dance team and I don't think I recall seeing them toss anything or use any other equipment other than flags. I will have to go look at the videos to confirm. Can someone remind me about Bell- are they the same? Do they use any other equipment other than flags?

You hit the nail on the head.

I'm inclined to keep 15-20 in the same group. Definitely above 21-25

Oops Sorry my bad. But yes overall point remains same

Hard to say about a whole ISD since most ISDs have schools that fall in various points along the marching band spectrum. Just for fun, lets try to put some numbers to this. Lewisville ISD has the big 3 (out of their 5 high schools, so 3/5=60% of their schools are good for marching band Leander ISD has 5 high schools (of which 2,maybe 3 are consistently in the top and others are growing, so 40-60% of their district does well in marching band Frisco ISD has 9 high schools of which 2 seem to stand out. That's 22%. Coppell ISD has only one high school and they are consistent 6A state finalists- does that mean 100% of their district is good for marching band? Keller ISD has 4 high schools, of which 2 (and now maybe 3) are doing well. Does that 75% put them higher than Lewisville ISD as a district? NE ISD has some 7 or 8 schools I think, of which 3 do well. I could go on.... So can you really compare ISD vs ISD? Its like apples and oranges. All you can probably say is some ISDs are more conducive to promoting a marching band culture. Remember this was just for fun, so don't tear me apart with my "analysis"

I saw Prosper and Keller at two different contests this year, so it is hard to really compare the two but Prosper was way way cleaner than Keller. I did see Keller Central at that same contest, and Prosper was way ahead of KC. Also way ahead of Timber Creek.

Here is my guess for top 25... (in no particular order other than groupings of top, middle, bottom) 1.Avon 2.Hebron 3.Flower Mound 4.CTJ 5.Marcus 6.Ronald Reagan 7.Vandergrift 8.Leander 9.Woodlands 10.LD Bell 11.Round Rock 12.Keller 13.Bowie 14.Hendrickson 15.Coppell 16.Wakeland 17.Winston Churchill 18.Vista Ridge 19.Cedar Park 20.Cedar Ridge 21.Cy Fair 22.Timber Creek 23.Keller Central 24.Clear Brook 25.Pearland

Music For all has finally posted the San Antonio schedule (seems to be the same as the one posted by HornRank http://www.musicforall.org/what-we-do/boa-marching-championships/regionals/san-antonio-super-regional

Schedule is posted here http://www.hornrank.com/2017/01/2017-san-antonio-super-regional.html Edited to add- This is a "tentative and unconfirmed schedule according to horn rank"

When they made the correction, the contest was already done, so maybe they just made an adjustment so they were still tied. I don't think it was a conspiracy at all, just an error and they made the best of it, once they figured it out. The bottom line is that Coppell had actually beat TC in scores in prelims (and only "tied" because of the penalty) so whatever happened with the tie, it was a win-win for both schools. At HEB, Coppell actually beat TC by a substantial margin, and even beat us (Wakeland) by a few points, which they had not done at BOA. They were only behind the winner Prosper by 0.8 points. I think the BOA scores for Coppell were as low because they didn't have as much on field as the others. Still, glad we got to see TC and Coppell both in finals at BOA. Like I said, win-win for both.

Prosper was really a neat surprise. Very excited to see what the future holds for this band. Timber Creek's show is coming along nicely and I think I remember it more because of the frogs- they stole the show Coppell's show is so peppy- definitely not sleepy, by a long shot. They had everyone around us clapping to the music. Are you sure you're not mixing them up with someone else?

Don't forget about Bell and Keller

hmmm I would move Keller Central and Frisco Centennial into the HM category and move Coppell and Haltom into the 6-10 slots.