Trust me I know what cedar ridge Perc is like, Rick rod knows exactly how but when I was talking about front ensemble I meant by prelims, I thought finals did a good job but there is just really no way to tell exactly what was the reason they were in second unless we see separate front and battery tapes, just my opinion though, cedar ridge is indeed very good at percussion. On the topic of percussion 2 percussion programs I would’ve liked to see and hope to see in the future are Westwood and McNeil. Both did very well in percussion at tmc and both are taught by directors who are currently teaching both wgi at rhythmic force and dci at blue stars and blue knights so lots of great stuff as far as percussion