justabandkid94

Agreed, and no one is seeking to undermine or instill fear in the Texas bands. But, this fall, we have ended up in “why does Carmel keep winning??” discussions quite a bit, so I think a detailed analysis of Carmel has been warranted. Educating people on what Carmel is doing well, in turn, helps casual spectators develop a better understanding of the judging criteria and, even better, a refined sense of appreciation for bands who do things a little differently than we do in Texas

Yikes, tons of typos. Glad I could help — I understand the confusion completely. I got frustrated with many bands when I competed in BOA, but I’ve really gained insight in retrospect. There’s are reason the adjudicators are seasoned veterans!

I've lost track of where exactly they are, but some of our more well-versed peers have posted pretty detailed walls of text elaborating on this. I'll do my best to streamline it. It's not that BOA judges are saying "Carmel's approaches to shows are superior, and every other band might as well quit what they're doing at switch to muted, nuanced show styles" -- it's that Carmel is performing what they choose to do exceptionally well, and lately, their "overall package" has been quite a bit stronger than their respective peers at Nationals. Please keep in mind when I say that, I am not comparing them to any Texas bands who topped BOA SA and did not travel to Indy (CTJ 2017, FM15/16/18), as much as I would have loved to know how those bands would have faired. The biggest things that comes to mind right now (in a rush so I may add more later): Carmel's visual design. Having a great music and engaging show is very effective, of course. But, a big struggle many bands have faced in the past (and several Texas bands today) is having a drill design that matches the musicality of the show. Is the drill random shapes paired with music, or does it have a smooth flow to it that matches the pacing of the music? Do I see what I hear? This, admittedly, is something that has taken me nearly a decade+ of following BOA to really develop an eye for, and there are far more educated people on this forum who could articulate this better than I am. Is the visual design the sole reason Carmel is unstoppable? No, but it helps certainly elevate them above the rest. Also, they have Michael Gaines designing, who is one of the all-time-great DCI designers and has essentially an unmatched talent for this stuff. Plymouth Canton was king of this in the early 2000s, and this streak Gaines is on right now is placing Carmel amidst those ranks. It's almost unfair, haha Something more obvious: Carmel performs the heck out of their shows. Obviously, not having the 8 hour limitation helps immensely. Pick any individual marcher out and follow them through the performance, and you'll see mastery of the expectations given to them. Even if it was just about the music and the marching - no GE - they'd still be smacking the s*** out of people. Besides, if it was only about the marching and music, CTJ wouldn't have their crazy cool vibes, Leander wouldn't infuse some 2004 Britney into their show, The Woodlands wouldn't be marching in sailor uniforms this year, etc etc. Effect is just as important and truthfully, the importance that is placed on GE is what drives so much of the innovation in shows year after year

That drill in the ballad is absolutely sublime

Hebron might as well be the picture next to “bridesmaid” in the dictionary at this point lol

Vandegrift, Leander and Vista back-to-back. My goodness

This has to be the most challenging music book they’ve played since... Sequenza? While dynamics are obviously critical, I can’t help but wonder if they’re on the back burner to getting the technical execution locked in. Also, some of the most memorable hits in the past decade-ish have come from this program - I’m fully confident Perez & crew know exactly what they’re doing. As others have said, I think this show has all the markings of a classic dark-horse Woodlands show, despite being drastically different. Excited to see how the cards play out for them.

Reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

Any update on Owasso situation?

It’s definitely exciting, but the score inflations/differences come down to how the judges manage scores at each respective contest — it’s very reactionary for the judges, and never “oh BOA admin says all regionals have to hit this score ceiling this week/can’t give out above (insert score).” I think people just want you to conserve your energy as we all have been there haha. It’s all a big waiting game til SA

I commented this earlier but I think Hebron looks remarkably good this early in the season from a visual standpoint, respectively to past seasons. That being said, Flower Mound the past few years has really hit gold with visual. I can see why they are hard to beat.. their kids move at such a high level, no matter if it’s marching or body movement. Music, though? Give me a break..

Good god. I’ll never doubt Flower Mound ever again. Pure slaughter

Glad the judges can see Hebron and FM back-to-back

Last year was a huge step up for Hebron from a visual difficulty standpoint, and they handled the transition well, even if they bit off quite a bit to chew. This year, though, they are attacking this show with a confidence that I rarely see exuded on the BOA field. Looking like naturals already. At times the kids straight up look like they're just gliding across the turf -- incredible. Cheers, guys and can't wait to see the final product

is it fair to say that Hebron's marching is already cleaner now than they were at the end of last year? Lol This ballad is from The Greatest Showman, correct? Sorry, not super in the loop on show concepts this year

Thank you. Didn’t quite understand how guard performance gets factored into visual performance. This helps!

Just checked HornRank. BOA San Antonio 2017 - their last “BOA show” - they were second in visual GE only to CTJ by .15. I see this conversation get brought up every year but am not convinced it’s a real issue. Can anyone with extensive knowledge of the judging handbook comment on if having a dance team actually inhibits Vandegrift? Purely curious, not an attack

I think a good way to think about Carmel is comparing blockbuster movies vs. art house films. The latter’s production quality is usually quite obvious to any movie goer, but the less-obvious, nuanced, and understated performances/elements are harder to pick up on. Critics/cinephiles will catch those things, but someone casually watching a movie might not. By no means does that say anything about the viewer, but it does reflect on the crafter - they’re yearning to innovate and evolve their art in ways unseen before, and aren’t necessarily concerned with being the fan/viewer favorite

I mean, intended or not...but 3 Super Regional titles in your first 8 years of BOA competition yields some serious bragging rights. Haha

That was iconic

Checked out that CTJ clip on Instagram. I love the way that the re-used music is written... it starts off as it did in 2017, and fools you into thinking it’ll keep being the exact same, and then morphs into completely different rhythms. Cool stuff. For me, at least, the program has the most distinct sound in BOA. I think I could be blindfolded, played fresh music and still know it’s them. Excited for the rest of the show! Anyone else see that earlier clip of the opener with the woodwinds hauling absolute a**? It’s gonna be a monstrous season

seriously! not even once in the past 12+ years of following the activity have I seen a video leak. A blood oath to the music gods, perhaps

My YouTube algorithm conveniently presented me with clips of Leander and Vandegrift when I first logged into my account over the weekend. I literally had to do zero searching. Gotta love technology, haha. Leander: Admittedly, I was skeptical of the Britney Spears incorporation prior to seeing this show. And after seeing a clip... well, dangit, it might even be better than BD's use of Circus this year. Toxic is gonna be one of the moments of the year (the early 2000s Britney fan in me is screaming hysterically). I'm loving the use of Einstein on the Beach so far; it's reminiscent of Crown, but distinct enough that it's its own animal. 2014 is my all time favorite Leander show, but regardless, I have loved their foray into increasingly cutting-edge shows since that landmark year for the program. This show proves to be a continuation of that, and if they stick the landing, it has all the material to be one of Leander's best shows ever. Vandegrift. I know a small minority of people out there complain about their shows each year for not being "cutting edge enough," but you gotta hand it to 'em: they know their style, their know what they are trying to accomplish and don't give a ____ about what anyone says. And it keeps working. All that being said, this is 100% the kind of show I expected from Vandegrift for their 1st trip to Indianapolis. As with 2017, a show with a traditional vibe while also feeling entirely fresh. Visual book is beefed up significantly -- they are hauling in both Parts that were on the field, and the visual design is mostly QUITE good. Similarly, the music demand is ramped up, especially in the second part which is almost just straight technique and complicated rhythms. A bold prediction, but I see them being second only to Hebron in the music department. Excited to see both of these shows get more fleshed out with GE as the season goes. Now, if anyone has a hidden video of Hebron...

Agreed! One of my faves of all time

Considering the religious themes, did Avon 2008 push armchair critics’ buttons the time? Just revisited this show for the first time in a while and don’t remember that season at all Side note, I think their 2007 show may actually be superior to this one...