justabandkid94

If memory serves right, the on-campus stadium isn't much better haha. Woodforest, where BOA Conroe is held, is the stadium where all TW home games happen.

Thanks. Who is now?

As is the case with any band out there right now, the majority of the visual/GE flair hasn’t been added in yet. Summer band just ended! I imagine that would be why the music was the most memorable/obvious factor right now. The directors at Hebron are brilliant, and they have a stellar design staff. I’m sure they’ll be just fine amping it up for nationals.

Broken Arrow 2011 - Destiny Leaves You No Choice. While a championship show, I recall mixed reception from multiple audiences I saw it with -- most gripes being from parents of other bands. The show is a love story and has all the typical BA/Cartwright theatrics. I remember complaints about the guard dress, as well as some pretty sensual choreography where guard members would literally throw themselves into the arms of wind players. Nothing insane enough that ignited debate on forums (if memory serves right), but the audience side comments were definitely there. Beautiful show, and I personally never viewed it as objectifying, but I've yet to be a parent so.. Hope this is an answer you are looking for

Sorry I'm a little late to the game. All of the aforementioned is simultaneously fascinating and infuriating. I have lots of questions, with the biggest of all being -- where in the %&!$ did this idea even come from. I have memories in high school marching band of our directors bringing in big name conservative, old-school UIL clinicians and equally prominent progressive BOA voices who were the antitheses of the old dogs. Both sides respected and always recognized the need/value of the other's perspective. So.. it's a jarring read, all of it

That was in response to your now-deleted post. I'm perfectly fine letting go, but obviously will reply to make amends if people are calling me out

I'm not seeking to undermine anyone's reputation. I saw a point I disagreed with and wanted an explanation, and subsequently I offered further context as to what made me pop off.

"Leander High School Band Dad," I wasn't taking a second swipe at her. I was offering context as to how I perhaps read into her statements too much. Thanks for the advisement, though

I agree mostly. Every band gets BOA judge feedback but not every band has Richard Hinshaw or Jon Vanderkolff or Jeff Sacktig to help them implement the suggestions properly. It comes down to the design staff/clinicians a band has access to, which is ultimately dictated by the amount of capital a band has access to. Even then, the best bands have their hit or miss years with great shows, performances and legendary staff members

Here's where I got set off Rather than creating some overly dramatic implication with "I have my reasons, but I'm NOT saying..." . Why not just say what you're thinking? This makes your view point sound way more heavy than it really is. "They're magnificent at what they do for sure. I am just hopeful every band gets a fair judgement." What I found to be problematic. Perhaps it was just an unfortunate flow of your paragraph, but those two sentences back to back made it sound like "Yeah, Carmel is good, but the judges have been unfair to everyone else in the past."Why do you worry that bands in finals wouldn't get a fair judgment in the first place? Is there a historical precedent of bands not being fairly judged?

Yes indeed, you're right, you are entitled to your own opinion! But still, it's important to practice good sportsmanship and not jump to "POLITICS!" if results pan out in a way that you do not agree with. Similarly, the point of a forum is to have open discussions that enlighten and educate -- so no need to get upset when someone challenges you on your opinion.

First of all, in order to sufficiently argue that BOA adjudicators are conspiring together to perpetuate an unfair system, you would need credible evidence. Unless I missed some revelatory expose in the past few years indicating such, there is zero possibility of making a concrete stance in that department. Let's not be that silly. Second, we need to analyze the definition of objective fairness in a competitive arena. Is it BOAs responsibility to construct as fair as possible of a platform to facilitate healthy competition, or is to their responsibility to read into what the "fair" result is for that contest? Obviously, it's the first option, and I know everyone on here agrees with that. If BOA was concerned with picking the fair outcome, bands like Hebron who have seemingly dominated early rounds of contests, only to be usurped in the finals round, would have been apologized to. Ronald Reagan would have been issued an apology for whatever judging disaster happened in 2005 that put Carmel over Reagan that year. Do these apologies happen? Yeah, albeit indirectly in the form of rule changes. Just look at newer rules like the top/bottom half of prelims dictating finals performance order. BOA is constantly evolving to create as possibly fair of an environment that facilitates healthy competition. Now, as for Carmel program itself. I've seen a couple posts in the past year from our resident historians explaining Carmel's consistent, historic dominance (I believe it was in the "Best shows you've ever seen?" thread) that can be attributed to its strong marching design staff, and overall strong foundation as a music program. Just a quick look at their marching website and it boasts some big gun names: for instance, Michael Gaines, legendary DCI and WGI show designer. A lot of the genius of the Cavaliers in the early 2000s is attributed to his designs Next I'll point everyone to Carmel's track record. Let's pull up our resources at Horn Rank. Championships in 2005, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018. As I already mentioned, 2005 was their first win -- controversial at the time (and I still disagree with the outcome), but while Reagan beat Carmel in Semifinals, the two bands went head to head against each other in Prelims 1 and actually tied for first. Maybe the bands were much more comparable on paper than the ghosts of forums past like to wail about. That being said, there's a point to be made that the finals order didn't facilitate our "objectively fair BOA process," an early argument for the much-later-on rule change. Next, 2012. Besides the LD Bell 2006-esque Broken Arrow show, this was ... honestly.. a boring year at Grand Nationals. Avon and Carmel tied in Prelims 1, followed by Carmel sitting on top the subsequent two rounds. Yawn. Moving on... 2016 Championship. Carmel wrapped up in another "controversy" that ended up in the favor of Carmel. Avon and Carmel tie for first, in a historic BOA moment, and our lovely GE Tie Breaker comes to save the day. While I'm sure it was the memory of a lifetime for Carmel, it was heart breaking for Avon, who beat Carmel in both rounds of the Indianapolis Super Regional the week prior, and in semifinals at Grand Nats. So they should have won right? Well, maybe not. Carmel comfortably beat Avon by 0.8 in Prelims 1; Avon edges out Carmel in Semifinals by 0.6. It literally just came down to who was on the finals panel, and their ultimate judgments. I realize no one is attempting to undermine the efforts of Carmel and what they achieve here. HOWEVER, I have been around on these forums long enough to have seen time after time again Carmel getting wrapped up in some side comment about them being the "chosen" BOA band, or that they're corrupt, or whatever. When you've been around as long as Carmel has, there's going to be several instances of your program getting lucky. Aaaand it doesn't help that Carmel is a great scapegoat for bitter band fans for the "they are good because they pay the judges!" arguments, considering the socioeconomic situation of Carmel, Indiana. Not that anyone stated the latter, but I hear it at competitions frequently This all just goes back to the pretentiousness of these competitions. Marching band is art, and art is subjective. But, we want a competition, so we have to find objective metrics to say whose art is better than whose, objectively, but REALLY, it's in the eyes of the panel of judges. Jokes aside, there are obviously performance-based metrics for a reason, which help alleviate the inequity that can arise purely because certain bands can afford to use the best show designers, while others can't .. But that's another conversation.

It is absolutely asinine to imply politics/unfairness is why Carmel has won 3 eagles in a row

how did I miss this hot mess??

When did Mr. Video go bye-bye?

Can’t help you with that, I apologize But, for years people agonized on MFA forums over never being able to find Plymouth Canton late 90s/early 00s shows online... there is now a YouTube account dedicated to them and is incredibly easy to find

The Woodlands does have a history of pop ballads, so it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch. If I’m not mistaken, both the Bluecoats and Woodlands share the same show designer - Jon Vanderkolff. I haven’t seen too much crossover in what he does between both (source wise), but I have noticed it once or twice.... a snippet Woodlands’ 2011 show, “Uninvited” is actually in 2016 Downside Up. First hit in TW 2011 following the huge pit break is somewhere in the first half of Bloo 2016... I’ll have to find it. Is this when I admit I have a problem?

“For the Hungry Boy” by Johnny Greenwood - from Phantom Thread Maybe a reach but.. “One Sweet Day” by Mariah Carey & Boyz II Men could make a powerful ballad if arranged right.

For as much as I love the marching arts, film is perhaps my greatest love. Lately, I have been exploring the filmography of the legendary Ingmar Bergman. One of his most famous works is “Through a Glass, Darkly.” The title sounded familiar, so I was unsure if I had seen it already or not; a few days after viewing, as I was digging through DCI videos on YouTube, I was reminded of the Blue Devils’ 2010 show, “Through a Glass, Darkly.” I was shocked - did the Blue Devils really produce a show based off an avant-garde auteur’s 1961 film? I guess it wouldn’t have been THAT much of a surprise. The film deals with the characters struggling with the concept of a silent god, and opens with a verse from 1 Corinthians 13:12: “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” As I continued to dig deeper, it became clearer that BD’s concept for 2010 was probably based moreso on the Corinthians verse than Bergman’s respective visual meditation on faith. Regardless, this ushered in a heightened level of understanding I had not previously achieved with BD 2010. For those unfamiliar, BD used mirror props for this particular show. Throughout the program, there are multiple instances were performing members interact with the mirrors, often literally standing “face-to-face” with the mirror — but only to have their reflections staring back at them. Now, I wasn’t quite around the DCI scene at this point, so I inevitably missed the in-depth discussions that likely occurred regarding the show themes, but this is where my brain gears starting moving. What I’m trying to say is: after watching a Swedish film —which pointed me to scripture — and then subsequently wasting time on YouTube, I have realized that BD may have been making a statement regarding the agony of (in this earthly form of life) never being able to “face” the true meaning and understanding of our purpose in the universe, in the eyes of our creator (whoever you believe that to be). My taste and appreciation for BD has only grown as the years have gone by, but opening up little understandings like this really attests to the GE Prowess of the Blue Devils. However, if I have missed the mark on this one, or if there are other interpretations out there.. lay them out! Another show this reminded me of was The Woodlands 2016, “On the Waterfront.” The show shares the same name as a 1954 Elia Kazan film starring Marlo Brandon. As for this marching show, I have no clue if there is a direct link to the film. Could anyone in the know comment on this? Anyways, I finally wanted to see if anyone could think of other shows (DCI/BOA/WGI) whose themes perhaps seemed relatively simple, but actually had incredibly layered backgrounds to them. Crossover references into other art mediums, and so forth. I had a lot of fun writing this... Hope it’s not too confusing. Time for bed! P.S. did this on my phone... forgive me for any formatting issues

I'm a little late catching up on this thread, but lots of super exciting stuff to look forward to already for this season. Perhaps its my tenure on here, but also feeling the need to say something... Whoever was throwing shade about bands playing classical instead of contemporary, or whatever, let's not project that unnecessary energy into this forum. Seriously, not even worth the wasted exertion. Every band in BOA cannot be reaching for the esotericism and avant-garde styles Leander/CTJ/FM. if this was the case, y'all would be b****ing about every band striving to be weird for the sake of being weird! LMAO We need the Marcuses just as much as we need the CTJs/Leander/ FM. Let's love on all bands and keep up this positive forum energy we saw at a new height last fall.

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actually, 2004 is what I meant! Ballet for Martha. My bad!

pretty sure Stephen F. Austin was the OG school to do this. Look up their 2003 show; iconic. Vandegrift does this extremely well right now, and have done so since they opened. Reagan does it beautifully as well but formerly had a normal guard. I believe they introduced it when their current head director was hired a few years back? Cool to see how schools are able to use dance teams to create a distinct visual program while also drawing on color guard elements to synergize the two approaches

What’s up TXBands, it’s been a minute. Don’t remember if these posts are allowed; if not, sorry in advance, @Admins. For years I’ve been attempting to find a recording of the Marcus Wind Symphony when they won TMEA with Toccata and Fugue (I believe it was the same year). And yes, I know they also marched it, but I do recall hearing that they played it for TMEA one of the years in proximity to that show. If anyone happens to have the recording (or any of theirs, really) I’d be greatly appreciative. Cheers

Dead on the nail here. The Woodlands faced this same struggle each GN trip post-2006 until they finally mastered it in 2013.