2024 BOA San Antonio Super Regional (Nov. 8 & 9)

[band1234323432123432123432]

  On 11/10/2024 at 2:56 PM, Amusicman said:

Does anyone know what Forney’s 2.10 penalty was for?

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yup 

[Origin]

  On 11/11/2024 at 12:20 AM, 1998-2018 said:

What happened to Leander and Keller?

I had the pleasure of speaking with LeanderMomma shortly after the SASR Finals announcement. While it's safe to say both of us were clearly disappointed, I don't think either of us were particularly surprised. I certainly wasn't. Yes, there were questions and a desire to see the Prelims Recap, but right then it was time to acknowledge, accept, and move forward with some new faces in Finals. Leander and Keller will both be back.

So how did Keller get here?

Too much has been made of the recent significant turnover in Keller's staff. Sure, it doesn't help to lose an extremely talented Director who has been there for 28 years. Especially one who spent several of his summers while at Keller on the Cavaliers staff too. He was very instrumental in leading the Cavalier's to a string of DCI National Campionships. (Kind of helps explain Keller's hornline, doesn't it?) The longterm Assistant Director stepped up as expected and was hired as the new Director. The unexpected part was that he would suddenly resign at the end of his first marching season. A semi-plausible explanation was offered by the school district and the resigning Director, but clearly there was more to the story and full disclosure behind such an abrupt departure was not forthcoming. Questions remain. But the season had ended with Keller's second appearance in the BOA Grand National Championship Finals. So how disruptive could have been? We had weathered the storm and marched forward into concert season with a recently retired director from within the district who accepted the short-term role of Interim Director through the remaining concert season. In June, as this marching season was about to begin the program didn't have a permanent Director. The new Assistant Director, who was previously third in line and also had significant tenure with Keller was approached about assuming the position of Director. He agreed. That meant he was taking over a marching show that was primarily put in place by his two recent predecessors along with the design team.

Turnover at the top generally has other consequences and there has been some minor additional impact, but nothing outside of normal expectations. It's time to look elsewhere for root causes.

Others have pointed out that the last time Keller missed Finals at the SASR was 2014, but that's only part of the story. A couple days later Keller advanced to the Texas SMBC and haven't missed Finals since then.

ANYWHERE!

So yesterday hurt, but in my opinion, and that of others, the seeds for this outcome were planted years ago. After the 2019 show the program moved in a new direction regarding design. I don't have an explanation why, but it was the beginning of a subtle downward spiral. (Watch videos of the 2015-2019 shows versus 2020-2024 shows.) I also can't explain why there hasn't been a proper course correction, other than yesterday being the first full-blown failure. But the declining scores and placements have been there for years now. We finally reached a point where, to use the UIL terminology, content and design problems couldn't be overcome by outstanding levels of achievement. Perhaps a stronger run, like at Area B, might have delayed this outcome temporarily. But don't forget, Keller made Finals at BOA Bedford by just one tenth of a point. This bill was due and payment was going to be demanded.

So what's my point? It's time for change and to look past things that can be true. It's time to see and clearly understand the whole truth before taking impulsive action.

It starts with the design team because there is a limit to what the kids performance can do to overcome design problems. The frustrating part is that while this forum is filled with parents and students who don’t completely understand the subtle nuance of how this is what keeps them out of Finals, Keller knows better. But they still got blindly sucked into the trap. This is likely going to be a rough ride, particularly for the Director, but he's not the problem either. Hang in there Mr. Bloss. You did most of what could be done and the show got better along the way. I still believe you are the correct person to lead the program forward. You inherited this design and therefore the consequences were not your responsibility. 

But fixing the root cause is.

 

TLDR: Three Directors in two years has not been the issue, at all. Five years of declining designs finally caught up to Keller.

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Didn’t Keller get a new design team last year?? (at least visually). I know they’ve had the same arranger for foreverrr. 

[1998-2018]

  On 11/11/2024 at 3:16 AM, Origin said:

Didn’t Keller get a new design team last year?? (at least visually). I know they’ve had the same arranger for foreverrr. 

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Carol Brittin Chambers is definitely not the problem. Or at least highly unlikely she is part of the root problem. Her writing of custom music specifically for Keller is a foundational part of their history of success. But it raises in interesting question. Is it possible that instructions or feedback she has been given more recently could be a contributing factor? Some of the other music selections that lack the necessary demand have certainly been an issue too in recent years. The same goes for drill style and demand choices. (But those are clearly not her area.) The problem, and therefore the solution, has been elusive because there have also been high points along the way.

For example, the recent Sweet Dreams ballad is the best they have ever done, with the possible exception of the 1999 show.

Success can be so distracting from the importance of larger trends...

[LeanderMomma]

  On 11/11/2024 at 12:20 AM, 1998-2018 said:

I had the pleasure of speaking with LeanderMomma shortly after the SASR Finals announcement. While it's safe to say both of us were clearly disappointed, I don't think either of us were particularly surprised. I certainly wasn't. Yes, there were questions and a desire to see the Prelims Recap, but right then it was time to acknowledge, accept, and move forward with some new faces in Finals. Leander and Keller will both be back.

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It was so good to talk with you yesterday!  And as disappointed as we both were feeling, it’s a little redemptive seeing Leander and Keller as the first two bands out of finals I must say.  😊

[LeanderMomma]

  On 11/10/2024 at 3:44 AM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

Exactly why I don't attend the events anymore and stream instead. After 50+ years attending competitions, I just can't take the rudeness and inconsideration. Live performances are better, but isn't worth it anymore.

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Come do the Eagle Experience next year and sit in the press box area with us. It’s a much more enjoyable experience!

[BOABuff]

Does BA now use the same designer as FloMo? FloMo reminded me so much of Broken Arrows style! Absolutely loved it!!

[1998-2018]

  On 11/11/2024 at 3:55 AM, LeanderMomma said:

Come do the Eagle Experience next year and sit in the press box area with us. It’s a much more enjoyable experience!

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But not everyone. So far, this is the best kept secret at the BOA SASR.

I'm reminded of how nothing changed Keller like Money Magazine telling the country it was the seventh best place to live.

[Thanos]

  On 11/11/2024 at 3:55 AM, LeanderMomma said:

Come do the Eagle Experience next year and sit in the press box area with us. It’s a much more enjoyable experience!

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Can say without a doubt that the Eagle Experience was worth every penny! I've absolutely loved it here in Texas. The San Antonio Super Regional is the best competition I've ever been to, period! Love the KY Competitions like Murray's FoC, but San Antonio is just so much more superior. Definitely gonna come back next year and I'm for sure, buying the Eagle Experience again!

[1998-2018]

Well, our goose is cook now.

Or was it our cow and pig that were cooked?

And served as barbecue for lunch!

[slowbrass]

  On 11/11/2024 at 3:58 AM, BOABuff said:

Does BA now use the same designer as FloMo? FloMo reminded me so much of Broken Arrows style! Absolutely loved it!!

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Flower Mound’s shows have been designed by Alan Spaeth for at least the past ten years, maybe longer. Broken Arrow’s were designed by Wes Cartwright for a long time until this season. Now they are a Jon Vanderkolff client (the woodlands).

[bchorn]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned how well Area D did at these finals with FOUR participants!  Way to go Area D!

Area J had three...who also happened to be the medalists!  🤯

Area H had four...2 from 6A and 2 from 5A. And then B, E, F, and I each one a piece. 

 

[oddlynormal]

  On 11/10/2024 at 3:22 PM, mendoza said:

We almost did in 2022, but it was so expensive. We're well off for a band but not rich enough for nats unfortunately, unless we fundraise and get donations like crazy for a while 

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"Seven Lakes not rich enough..."

 

That is HILARIOUS!  Seven Lakes, and the surrounding area, is EXTREMELY wealthy.  As one of the best academic performers in the state I don't buy this at all.  Seven Lakes can make a nationals trip.  All bands fundraise, but you gotta be kidding me with the "we aren't rich enough for nats" line.  Please tell me another joke.  That was funny.  (18.12% Economically Disadvantaged)  Granted, a trip to nationals is never cheap or easy for any Texas band, Seven Lakes has the community to make it happen.  

 

But in all seriousness the Seven Lakes program is amazing and absolutely earned their keep this year.  Congrats to them.

[TWHSParent]

  On 11/11/2024 at 3:55 AM, LeanderMomma said:

Come do the Eagle Experience next year and sit in the press box area with us. It’s a much more enjoyable experience!

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While I may not be able to attend San Antonio any more, if I was to do so I would absolutely do this package again. Best experience in the Alamodome for band watching!

[personofaperson]

  On 11/11/2024 at 3:49 AM, LeanderMomma said:

It was so good to talk with you yesterday!  And as disappointed as we both were feeling, it’s a little redemptive seeing Leander and Keller as the first two bands out of finals I must say.  😊

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It also seems Cypress Woods is becoming more consistent, that being this is their 3rd year in a row being 3rd out of finals. It seems they are starting to find their ground and identity as the years go on! It would be nice to see them in finals for the first time, they have had so many caliber shows and we may see it this year at SBMC or next year! Who knows, everybody would love to see a Cat in finals!

James Bowie is consistent as ever! It does suck that they suffered a penalty that kicked them down from the 16th to 19th tie, but they still let the people on the field know who they are tonight and the fact they are still here! I hope to see them back in finals soon! They have been dancing on the "almost" line for far long enough! The two wolves inside them will keep fighting!

Waxahachie seemed to have also missed finals being originally 20th before James Bowie tied them to 19th. Their show was very entertaining and also clean, but I felt like it was missing something from those previous 2 years. Nevertheless, the fact the Waxahachie band still did a show that resembled a old time period, and I always love those shows! Hopefully, they keep their "Factory" running in the years coming!

(Sorry for some of the show puns, I could not help myself)

[FloMoParent]

  On 11/11/2024 at 12:20 AM, 1998-2018 said:

What happened to Leander and Keller?

I had the pleasure of speaking with LeanderMomma shortly after the SASR Finals announcement. While it's safe to say both of us were clearly disappointed, I don't think either of us were particularly surprised. I certainly wasn't. Yes, there were questions and a desire to see the Prelims Recap, but right then it was time to acknowledge, accept, and move forward with some new faces in Finals. Leander and Keller will both be back.

So how did Keller get here?

Too much has been made of the recent significant turnover in Keller's staff. Sure, it doesn't help to lose an extremely talented Director who has been there for 28 years. Especially one who spent several of his summers while at Keller on the Cavaliers staff too. He was very instrumental in leading the Cavalier's to a string of DCI National Campionships. (Kind of helps explain Keller's hornline, doesn't it?) The longterm Assistant Director stepped up as expected and was hired as the new Director. The unexpected part was that he would suddenly resign at the end of his first marching season. A semi-plausible explanation was offered by the school district and the resigning Director, but clearly there was more to the story and full disclosure behind such an abrupt departure was not forthcoming. Questions remain. But the season had ended with Keller's second appearance in the BOA Grand National Championship Finals. So how disruptive could have been? We had weathered the storm and marched forward into concert season with a recently retired director from within the district who accepted the short-term role of Interim Director through the remaining concert season. In June, as this marching season was about to begin the program didn't have a permanent Director. The new Assistant Director, who was previously third in line and also had significant tenure with Keller was approached about assuming the position of Director. He agreed. That meant he was taking over a marching show that was primarily put in place by his two recent predecessors along with the design team.

Turnover at the top generally has other consequences and there has been some minor additional impact, but nothing outside of normal expectations. It's time to look elsewhere for root causes.

Others have pointed out that the last time Keller missed Finals at the SASR was 2014, but that's only part of the story. A couple days later Keller advanced to the Texas SMBC and haven't missed Finals since then.

ANYWHERE!

So yesterday hurt, but in my opinion, and that of others, the seeds for this outcome were planted years ago. After the 2019 show the program moved in a new direction regarding design. I don't have an explanation why, but it was the beginning of a subtle downward spiral. (Watch videos of the 2015-2019 shows versus 2020-2024 shows.) I also can't explain why there hasn't been a proper course correction, other than yesterday being the first full-blown failure. But the declining scores and placements have been there for years now. We finally reached a point where, to use the UIL terminology, content and design problems couldn't be overcome by outstanding levels of achievement. Perhaps a stronger run, like at Area B, might have delayed this outcome temporarily. But don't forget, Keller made Finals at BOA Bedford by just one tenth of a point. This bill was due and payment was going to be demanded.

So what's my point? It's time for change and to look past things that can be true. It's time to see and clearly understand the whole truth before taking impulsive action.

It starts with the design team because there is a limit to what the kids performance can do to overcome design problems. The frustrating part is that while this forum is filled with parents and students who don’t completely understand the subtle nuance of how this is what keeps them out of Finals, Keller knows better. But they still got blindly sucked into the trap. This is likely going to be a rough ride, particularly for the Director, but he's not the problem either. Hang in there Mr. Bloss. You did most of what could be done and the show got better along the way. I still believe you are the correct person to lead the program forward. You inherited this design and therefore the consequences were not your responsibility. 

But fixing the root cause is.

 

TLDR: Three Directors in two years has not been the issue, at all. Five years of declining designs finally caught up to Keller.

Expand  

(My daughter *was* a teacher in KISD until this year, I've been very involved in the on-goings, and failures of the KISD)
Part of the problem with Keller is that the Keller ISD school board. They want to run every aspect of every school as if they are the Super, the principals, and the teachers.  You can see a related story about how the KISD BoT requires their seal of approval for any theatre performance.  Additionally, they have an excessive debt.  They want to just blame the state for it, but their debt is above and beyond the failure of the TexLege to fully fund public schools.

{I know this is touching on a political topic, I kept it as basic as I could}

[utee94]

  On 11/11/2024 at 1:09 PM, oddlynormal said:

"Seven Lakes not rich enough..."

 

That is HILARIOUS!  Seven Lakes, and the surrounding area, is EXTREMELY wealthy.  As one of the best academic performers in the state I don't buy this at all.  Seven Lakes can make a nationals trip.  All bands fundraise, but you gotta be kidding me with the "we aren't rich enough for nats" line.  Please tell me another joke.  That was funny.  (18.12% Economically Disadvantaged)  Granted, a trip to nationals is never cheap or easy for any Texas band, Seven Lakes has the community to make it happen.  

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It's a question of allocation of resources, and I don't blame any band, even "rich" ones, for choosing not to spend that money on a super-expensive trip.

Our band is going to Grand Nationals this year and the trip is going to cost over half a million dollars.  That's on top of the normal annual budget so this year the band overall is spending north of 3/4 of a million dollars.  That's pretty crazy money.

For my family alone, with two kids in band, this year is costing us around $8,000 to pay for the kids and for our support of them and the band.

We're blessed and can afford it, but that's not chump change.

 

[Hard Core Band Fan]

  On 11/11/2024 at 3:46 PM, utee94 said:

It's a question of allocation of resources, and I don't blame any band, even "rich" ones, for choosing not to spend that money on a super-expensive trip.

Our band is going to Grand Nationals this year and the trip is going to cost over half a million dollars.  That's on top of the normal annual budget so this year the band overall is spending north of 3/4 of a million dollars.  That's pretty crazy money.

For my family alone, with two kids in band, this year is costing us around $8,000 to pay for the kids and for our support of them and the band.

We're blessed and can afford it, but that's not chump change.

 

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Yep, been there. We made major competition trips three years in a row like that. I worked two jobs to be able to afford it, but it was worth it. We just have a narrow window for our kids to do this, that's if they are fortunate enough to have those opportunities. 

[utee94]

  On 11/11/2024 at 4:01 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

Yep, been there. We made major competition trips three years in a row like that. I worked two jobs to be able to afford it, but it was worth it. We just have a narrow window for our kids to do this, that's if they are fortunate enough to have those opportunities. 

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Absolutely and I completely agree or we wouldn't be going.  It's going to be a great experience for the kids, and for us to share with them.

I'm just not sure everyone understands the sheer expense of a trip like this, the numbers for an entire band are enormous, and the individual demand placed on each family is just not at all affordable for a lot of folks. 

[Moiety]

  On 11/10/2024 at 3:14 AM, cheeto2401 said:

Hebron - approx. 300

Marcus - approx. 230

Flower Mound - 374 

Cedar Park - approx. 220

Seven Lakes - approx. 300

McNeil - approx. 200

Vandegrift - approx. 400

Cedar Ridge - couldnt find a number

Coppell - 350+ 

Pearland - 425 (from what i've read)

Round Rock - 300+

Ronald Reagan - 300+ 

The Woodlands - 300+ 

Rouse - couldnt find a number

Vista Ridge - couldnt find a number

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Oh hey UIL program is out! These say 'Student Performers', so I presume it's band + guard
Hebron: 345

Marcus: 250

Flower Mound: 310

Cedar Park: 5A, somebody dig up that program

Seven Lakes: 275

McNeil: didn't actually make state; Area D is BRUTAL y'all

Vandegrift: 349

Cedar Ridge: 179

Coppell: 256

Pearland: 385

Round Rock: 275

Ronald Reagan:330

The Woodlands: 272

Rouse: 5A

Vista Ridge: 241

 

The smallest band actually performing in State will be SF Austin from Fort Bend with 162.

[BaritoneBallah]

  On 11/11/2024 at 4:28 PM, Moiety said:

Oh hey UIL program is out! These say 'Student Performers', so I presume it's band + guard
Hebron: 345

Marcus: 250

Flower Mound: 310

Cedar Park: 5A, somebody dig up that program

Seven Lakes: 275

McNeil: didn't actually make state; Area D is BRUTAL y'all

Vandegrift: 349

Cedar Ridge: 179

Coppell: 256

Pearland: 385

Round Rock: 275

Ronald Reagan:330

The Woodlands: 272

Rouse: 5A

Vista Ridge: 241

 

The smallest band actually performing in State will be SF Austin from Fort Bend with 162.

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Cedar Park: 267

Rouse: 224

Leander: 222

[bchorn]

  On 11/11/2024 at 4:28 PM, Moiety said:

Oh hey UIL program is out! These say 'Student Performers', so I presume it's band + guard
Hebron: 345

Marcus: 250

Flower Mound: 310

Cedar Park: 5A, somebody dig up that program

Seven Lakes: 275

McNeil: didn't actually make state; Area D is BRUTAL y'all

Vandegrift: 349

Cedar Ridge: 179

Coppell: 256

Pearland: 385

Round Rock: 275

Ronald Reagan:330

The Woodlands: 272

Rouse: 5A

Vista Ridge: 241

 

The smallest band actually performing in State will be SF Austin from Fort Bend with 162.

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If you watch videos of McNeil and Cedar Ridge, they both seem like similar sized bands to me.

[Moiety]

  On 11/11/2024 at 6:32 PM, bchorn said:

If you watch videos of McNeil and Cedar Ridge, they both seem like similar sized bands to me.

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McNeil's band website says they march 200, which sounds very round to be an exact count to me.

[bchorn]

  On 11/11/2024 at 6:47 PM, Moiety said:

McNeil's band website says they march 200, which sounds very round to be an exact count to me.

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Here's a video of Saturday night's retreat.  McNeil and Cedar Ridge are lined up right next to each other on the right side  between the 25 and the 10.  They look similar sizes to me...with maybe Cedar Ridge being a little larger. 

https://youtu.be/Ze_VSJfpH48?t=2261

[cctrumpet]

  On 11/10/2024 at 1:20 AM, MikeKyu said:

So, you are saying McNeil has never missed state but were beaten by two bands because they "have a long history of making state?" I'm confused....Does history matter in a contest or not? Are you invalidating some of McNeil's previous state appearances because they "have a long history of making state?" 

See the falacy in this arguement? 

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McNeil has never made state

[bchorn]

  On 11/11/2024 at 8:12 PM, cctrumpet said:

McNeil has never made state

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@MikeKyu: Yep...and now McNeil probably has the distinction of probably being the first band to compete in BOA San Antonio Super Regionals finals without qualifying for state that same year.