2024 BOA Bedford (Oct. 5)

[lost]

1 hour ago, cheeto2401 said:

im getting word that L.D. Bell got a 10 point subtraction because of their drumline, is this possible?

after looking at the score sheet and all of that, theres no deductions at all really, im just confused right now

Why would you believe this

[Rubisco]

I understand the confusion around GE for those relatively new to the activity, but I also strongly feel like a lot of people complain about it without bothering to do their homework first. That partly explains some of the snarkier responses here. Anyway, here is the adjudication manual. It answers probably every question about the effect and performance captions posed in this thread.

https://marching.musicforall.org/adjudication/

There are publicly accessible videos that can help to deepen your understanding as well. Here's one, in which experienced BOA/DCI judge Randy Greenwell interviews experienced BOA/DCI (and WGI) judges Richard Saucedo and Marie Czapinski. It's called, Creating Effect: From a Judge's Perspective. You'll notice that they hew quite closely to the points of consideration that are on the judging sheets themselves.

 

Mind you, even when judges are armed with the same sheets with the same points of consideration, judging will always have a strong dose of subjectivity. That's true for every caption. I always say that what is strived for is more of a perfect subjectivity.

[lost]

1 hour ago, Rubisco said:

I understand the confusion around GE for those relatively new to the activity, but I also strongly feel like a lot of people complain about it without bothering to do their homework first. That partly explains some of the snarkier responses here. Anyway, here is the adjudication manual. It answers probably every question about the effect and performance captions posed in this thread.

https://marching.musicforall.org/adjudication/

There are publicly accessible videos that can help to deepen your understanding as well. Here's one, in which experienced BOA/DCI judge Randy Greenwell interviews experienced BOA/DCI (and WGI) judges Richard Saucedo and Marie Czapinski. It's called, Creating Effect: From a Judge's Perspective. You'll notice that they hew quite closely to the points of consideration that are on the judging sheets themselves.

 

Mind you, even when judges are armed with the same sheets with the same points of consideration, judging will always have a strong dose of subjectivity. That's true for every caption. I always say that what is strived for is more of a perfect subjectivity.

Thig guy gets it.

[cheeto2401]

1 hour ago, lost said:

Why would you believe this

idk man 😭

[Nny14]

At the end of the day judges are human too. Even if their assignment is just analyzing effect, if a moment is dirty or poorly performed it's not going to be as effective as it could have been. 

[packwick]

there should just be a pinned thread about GE at the top of every band forum lol. like, first, here are the manuals!!

[clarinetistkai05]

On 10/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, CosmicLimbo said:

They’ll be fine they have a great show that I think will do really well at Area and state. I genuinely hate BOA regional scoring to tell you the truth but that’s based off my own personal gripes 😅 regardless I’m always in here paying attention to BOA events and scores so jokes on me 

I know they’ll be okay, it stung for a lot of them that they missed finals when I went to talk to them. Second year in a row with the same placement, I would be mad too (I was mad last year somewhat). Although, they know I’m proud and I’m rooting for them. As long as the crowd loved them, then I’m happy with how they did (plus it’s a hard contest, so naturally some really talented bands will miss finals).

[clarinetistkai05]

On 10/5/2024 at 4:26 PM, RouseMegaFan said:

I think UNT has a shot at finals!

star spangled banner technically occured before finals so with that logic…

[NotGodsHornline]

On 10/7/2024 at 6:40 PM, Nny14 said:

At the end of the day judges are human too. Even if their assignment is just analyzing effect, if a moment is dirty or poorly performed it's not going to be as effective as it could have been. 

Totally get that. However, my band listened back to a visual ensemble judge tape last week from our finals run and he did not mention any execution flaws in the entire performance. He only talked about general effect and how we can make the show more effective. Although this advice is useful to our band, he offered little to no critique on how to fix forms or how to be cleaner visually as an ensemble. Not trying to complain, but I just wish that he was talking about execution rather than effect since he wasn’t assigned to general effect as a judge.

[aaron067]

From a BOA perspective, effect is often generated by execution.  That's why the same bands are at the top of BOA and UIL.  Plus, Visual Ensemble is looking at how the show is constructed and whether or not the vision of the designer/drill writer is showing through the performance.  Again, that depends entirely on how well the band is performing the drill.  

So, if he's saying something isn't effective, then a band should look at why that might be the case.  Maybe forms aren't locking into place, or marchers aren't hitting their dots, or maybe they just don't look the same.  Visual clarity creates tons of points in all 3 visual captions.  Same is true for music.  

 

[NotGodsHornline]

17 minutes ago, aaron067 said:

From a BOA perspective, effect is often generated by execution.  That's why the same bands are at the top of BOA and UIL.  Plus, Visual Ensemble is looking at how the show is constructed and whether or not the vision of the designer/drill writer is showing through the performance.  Again, that depends entirely on how well the band is performing the drill.  

So, if he's saying something isn't effective, then a band should look at why that might be the case.  Maybe forms aren't locking into place, or marchers aren't hitting their dots, or maybe they just don't look the same.  Visual clarity creates tons of points in all 3 visual captions.  Same is true for music.  

 

But we shouldn’t have to imply what to fix simply based on general effect comments. His job was to specifically target how clean our visuals were and he did not do that.

[TWHSPercDad]

10 minutes ago, NotGodsHornline said:

But we shouldn’t have to imply what to fix simply based on general effect comments. His job was to specifically target how clean our visuals were and he did not do that.

I understand what you are saying, I really do. Let me give you another perspective though, from my band director and judging days. 

(1) Only half the score (even in performance captions - meaning the “individual” and “ensemble” captions) is based on the “how” (execution). The other half is the “what” (construction/difficulty, etc.of what is being performed). 

(2) Me, with my band director hat on, hates to receive what is generally called “tick tapes” from the ensemble judge. 
Why? Because if there are spacing, or form problems, I can see those easily also and I know how to fix them. That doesn’t mean the judge is not considering the execution component. The judge addresses that by the score that is given (100 possible out of the total200).  I want to hear something, as a director, that is not as easily seen or perceived by me. When I watch the drill each day in rehearsal, it is not as easy to perceive the “what,” and how to possibly make changes ….. while still cleaning and addressing the execution.
 

There is only 8 minutes that the judge can offer insights. Especially on an early season tape and performance, I want to hear things I DONT necessarily know — Not stating obvious drill performance issues. 

This may or may not address your issue, but I think it can address how the judge approached your critique tape. 
 

 

[TWHSPercDad]

[NotGodsHornline]

15 minutes ago, TWHSPercDad said:

I understand what you are saying, I really do. Let me give you another perspective though, from my band director and judging days. 

(1) Only half the score (even in performance captions - meaning the “individual” and “ensemble” captions) is based on the “how” (execution). The other half is the “what” (construction/difficulty, etc.of what is being performed). 

(2) Me, with my band director hat on, hates to receive what is generally called “tick tapes” from the ensemble judge. 
Why? Because if there are spacing, or form problems, I can see those easily also and I know how to fix them. That doesn’t mean the judge is not considering the execution component. The judge addresses that by the score that is given (100 possible out of the total200).  I want to hear something, as a director, that is not as easily seen or perceived by me. When I watch the drill each day in rehearsal, it is not as easy to perceive the “what,” and how to possibly make changes ….. while still cleaning and addressing the execution.
 

There is only 8 minutes that the judge can offer insights. Especially on an early season tape and performance, I want to hear things I DONT necessarily know — Not stating obvious drill performance issues. 

This may or may not address your issue, but I think it can address how the judge approached your critique tape. 
 

 

That makes a lot more sense. Thank you 🙏🏻 

[TWHSPercDad]

2 minutes ago, NotGodsHornline said:

That makes a lot more sense. Thank you 🙏🏻 

My pleasure! 
I wish you and your program all the best for the rest of the season!