2025 WGI Thread

[packwick]

aaaaand El Dorado

https://youtu.be/n171jAT9KUc?si=GZAmCTy8V0iulIwG

solid performers. show doesn't do anything for me however. kinda over slow, inspirational "message" shows in general. give the message to me more obliquely, more poetically. show, don't tell. just my opinion.

[Rubisco]

1 hour ago, packwick said:

aaaaand El Dorado

https://youtu.be/n171jAT9KUc?si=GZAmCTy8V0iulIwG

solid performers. show doesn't do anything for me however. kinda over slow, inspirational "message" shows in general. give the message to me more obliquely, more poetically. show, don't tell. just my opinion.

I somewhat agree about the "message shows". On the other hand, I respect people whose mode of artistic communication is more direct or even confrontational, especially since it does risk being called out by people like us for its lack of subtlety.

For me, more than anything, watching the Scholastic Worlds from this past weekend, I find myself wishing for more "up-tempo" shows. Much of what we've seen is quite slow or mid-tempo. I would prefer more variety.

[jmartin1056]

slightly higher angle of Arcadia. I just think TWHS has a higher ceiling with what they are doing this year. Can’t wait to see the reaction in UD for the ripple towards the middle with the rifles under the benches. 
 

Arcadia has a polished product that is beautifully done from an aesthetic standpoint. Definitely have a leg (or 8 🐙) up on movement analysis. Gonna come down to GE preference!

[Tubalord11]

1 hour ago, jmartin1056 said:

slightly higher angle of Arcadia. I just think TWHS has a higher ceiling with what they are doing this year. Can’t wait to see the reaction in UD for the ripple towards the middle with the rifles under the benches. 
 

Arcadia has a polished product that is beautifully done from an aesthetic standpoint. Definitely have a leg (or 8 🐙) up on movement analysis. Gonna come down to GE preference!

This is exactly how I feel. I enjoyed the show from a story wise but felt wanting more in terms of big weapon/standout moments where as TW’s have the complete opposite. Haven’t seen Carmel yet but if TW’s are as clean as normal come Dayton I seem them as the front runner by a good amount, I would imagine GE scores will rise with a cleaner show though I could be completely wrong lol 

[jmartin1056]

2 hours ago, Tubalord11 said:

This is exactly how I feel. I enjoyed the show from a story wise but felt wanting more in terms of big weapon/standout moments where as TW’s have the complete opposite. Haven’t seen Carmel yet but if TW’s are as clean as normal come Dayton I seem them as the front runner by a good amount, I would imagine GE scores will rise with a cleaner show though I could be completely wrong lol 

I have seen Carmel twice via livestream, and I have to say from a design point it’s very similar to Arcadia. Lots of slow, ballad moments without much in terms of in your face impact. I would not have them in first. Right now I’d have Woodlands, Arcadia, and then a pretty big gap to Warren Central/Carmel for 3rd.

[packwick]

design analysis was actually Arcadia's best caption at SD. can now see why. clean, clear, logical, correct, connected, musical. tbh expected that to be the case based on the designers and what i saw downstairs.

woodlands is def a lil more chaotic... well, in the opener at least, when the flags are kinda distracting and i dont know where to look. gaudy pink practice flags don't help. other parts are fine. def they have the kids running around more than in arcadia, which on the one hand is rlly impressive, but need to be careful w/ that, w/ clarity and timing.

find woodlands more effective overall, just a much bigger emotional impact, with plenty to tickle the brain and eyes as well. buuut the effect judges could lean hard into aesthetics. thinkin that's prob what happened b/w Carmel and Tarpon in 2023. don't really know how else to explain those effect results, when Tarpon clearly gave a better performance of a more emotionally impactful show, that clearly connected more w/ the audience. felt a lil contrarian tbh. like, c'mon man, those kids killed it!!!

either one this yr b/w A&W would be a first-time champion, which id be thrilled with. warren central would be a first-time medalist, which would also be super cool. been a looooong time since we've seen a top 3 w/o Avon or Carmel.

[Tubalord11]

Quick question. So, how good are past scores used to guess how good a guard is going to be the following year? I'm asking because I remember Hebron being pretty dominant and scoring well in SA last season, but now they're not placing as high. I'm guessing the question is no, maybe it's different with each class, and obv for marching band certain groups do better some years, but then I feel like, especially in 6A and for the SASR, the finalist have been pretty consistent over the mast 8-ish years but regular regionals and the other UIL classes are consistently changing, at least bottom half, kind of, so maybe it's like SW is pretty close to the same finalist but then SO and SA is a complete toss up each year. Sorry for dragging out the question, I'm just curious as to what's a good way if there are any to predict how upcoming seasons will look, but Ik that's hard w/o any insider info 

[Origin]

Noblesville with an 88.1 in open class. Promotion incoming?

[Rubisco]

46 minutes ago, Origin said:

Noblesville with an 88.1 in open class. Promotion incoming?

That is quite a huge number for March 2nd, and may indeed indicate that they're in the wrong class! 

[Rubisco]

On 3/1/2025 at 2:48 PM, Tubalord11 said:

Quick question. So, how good are past scores used to guess how good a guard is going to be the following year? I'm asking because I remember Hebron being pretty dominant and scoring well in SA last season, but now they're not placing as high. I'm guessing the question is no, maybe it's different with each class, and obv for marching band certain groups do better some years, but then I feel like, especially in 6A and for the SASR, the finalist have been pretty consistent over the mast 8-ish years but regular regionals and the other UIL classes are consistently changing, at least bottom half, kind of, so maybe it's like SW is pretty close to the same finalist but then SO and SA is a complete toss up each year. Sorry for dragging out the question, I'm just curious as to what's a good way if there are any to predict how upcoming seasons will look, but Ik that's hard w/o any insider info 

Guard programs in general don't have the same infrastructure in place that overall band programs do, which leads to inconsistencies from year to year. A lot of guard programs don't have great vertical teams, or even existent vertical teams, for example. Plus, funding can sometimes be a bit iffy. So, the talent ends up being not-so-stable from year to year. Not to mention that being a guard director itself isn't always the most stable job.

[packwick]

yaaaay, Jordan!! they're gonna be seeded a close 2nd nationally after this weekend methinks. and that's w/ kinda a rough run too. happy to see em get their chance in the spotlight after their reclass a couple yrs back. granted they may just end up right back in open after this season LOL.

not lost on me that woodlands may have two national medalist quality guards this season. their A would be ranked 1st in the nation after this weekend if they were going to Dayton. "bad" news and good news for the world team. bad news is, they're two-tenths of a point lower than they 84.8 they needed to match arcadia's 1st. good news is that most of the judges had them hitting an 85+, and those 3 were the most experienced ones on the panel, who they could absolutely see again in Dayton judging world class finals.

Pearland moving up to a very distant 2nd in open rankings, after Noblesville popped an 88. Westlake in 4th i think. kinda going off of memory of this weekend's scores. Bowie up there as well.

also def not lost on me that H-town guards are slaying, but DONT HAVE A REGIONAL ANYMORE!!!

[packwick]

ofc it should be said that seeding rankings are faaaaar from an exact science. just rough neighborhoods, really.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

Really enjoyed both of The Woodlands' guards this weekend. Quite a step down in performance watching Invictus after the The Woodlands' SW show.

[packwick]

thiiiink undaunted will prob make finals this yr in IO too, if they get more consistent. def a step up. hovering around 80, which is where i woulda scored em too. also, as far as standalone guard songs go, theirs is easily my favorite ive heard this season so far. sooo evocative.

https://youtu.be/cagjZsQf4tk?si=p5sPVQNU-angGl2U

only 7k views while Tay-Sway gets a billion. Ugh!! i hate the world!!

[Rubisco]

4 hours ago, packwick said:

thiiiink undaunted will prob make finals this yr in IO too, if they get more consistent. def a step up. hovering around 80, which is where i woulda scored em too. also, as far as standalone guard songs go, theirs is easily my favorite ive heard this season so far. sooo evocative.

https://youtu.be/cagjZsQf4tk?si=p5sPVQNU-angGl2U

only 7k views while Tay-Sway gets a billion. Ugh!! i hate the world!!

I loved it when the stage finally opened up in Undaunted's show and the bronze and blue flags came swirling out. So beautiful. The song is absolutely amazing. Somebody on one of her YouTube videos commented that she's like a cross between Nina Simone and Sufjan Stevens. Apt!

[packwick]

okie dokie, standings posted. strong majorities of units in every class have posted a score, tho some are a weeee bit old now. IW thrown into a lil bit of chaos after the judges smacked down fusion this weekend. blessed sac currently sitting on top despite being directly beaten by fusion. not surprised, fusion has an unconventional show, others much more typical imo.

strongest TX possibilities for Dayton finalists in the standings rn:

SA: Jordan 2nd, Melissa 5th, Veterans Memorial 8th, Tomball Memorial 13th, Dripping Springs 19th, Foster 22nd

IA: RGV Winter Guard 12th

SO: Pearland 2nd, Westlake 4th, James Bowie 7th, Little Elm 10th, Cy-Fair 11th

IO: Undaunted 12th, Industry Independent 17th

SW: The Woodlands 2nd

IW: Invictus 13th, Mirage 15th, Menage 19th

methinks arcadia's lead over tw in SW will widen the next two weeks before narrowing or vanishing the weekend of the West and Southwest power regionals. arcadia has wgi contests every weekend for the next 3 weeks. wowzer!! they gonna get them some feedback. don't really see em getting "fusioned" either. woodlands meanwhile shouldn't hope to rely on equipment and effect. need to up their mvmnt game and if possible restage at least a couple moments for added formal clarity/connectedness. i actually did think the opener looked much better at Austin. flags more in time w/ the music and less brightly colored, so our focus went more to the rifles.

about a month left until Dayton. entering the final stretch already. crazy!!!

[TWHSPercDad]

4 hours ago, packwick said:

okie dokie, standings posted. strong majorities of units in every class have posted a score, tho some are a weeee bit old now. IW thrown into a lil bit of chaos after the judges smacked down fusion this weekend. blessed sac currently sitting on top despite being directly beaten by fusion. not surprised, fusion has an unconventional show, others much more typical imo.

strongest TX possibilities for Dayton finalists in the standings rn:

SA: Jordan 2nd, Melissa 5th, Veterans Memorial 8th, Tomball Memorial 13th, Dripping Springs 19th, Foster 22nd

IA: RGV Winter Guard 12th

SO: Pearland 2nd, Westlake 4th, James Bowie 7th, Little Elm 10th, Cy-Fair 11th

IO: Undaunted 12th, Industry Independent 17th

SW: The Woodlands 2nd

IW: Invictus 13th, Mirage 15th, Menage 19th

methinks arcadia's lead over tw in SW will widen the next two weeks before narrowing or vanishing the weekend of the West and Southwest power regionals. arcadia has wgi contests every weekend for the next 3 weeks. wowzer!! they gonna get them some feedback. don't really see em getting "fusioned" either. woodlands meanwhile shouldn't hope to rely on equipment and effect. need to up their mvmnt game and if possible restage at least a couple moments for added formal clarity/connectedness. i actually did think the opener looked much better at Austin. flags more in time w/ the music and less brightly colored, so our focus went more to the rifles.

about a month left until Dayton. entering the final stretch already. crazy!!!

Great analysis as always @packwick !!!

[jmartin1056]

On 3/2/2025 at 5:28 PM, packwick said:

ofc it should be said that seeding rankings are faaaaar from an exact science. just rough neighborhoods, really.

I believe the year they almost medaled (2023) they were slotted pretty far from top 3 and then just barely missed out on a medal. Also last year I think they were pretty underrated going into Dayton. Seems to be a yearly thing where they are such an outlier at every regular season contest so it’s almost more of a guess for where there scores would line up with the Carmels and Arcadias of the SW realm.

[TWHSPercDad]

22 minutes ago, jmartin1056 said:

I believe the year they almost medaled (2023) they were slotted pretty far from top 3 and then just barely missed out on a medal. Also last year I think they were pretty underrated going into Dayton. Seems to be a yearly thing where they are such an outlier at every regular season contest so it’s almost more of a guess for where there scores would line up with the Carmels and Arcadias of the SW realm.

That is a good point, @jmartin1056.

Over the past three seasons, the WGI Austin Regional was TWHS’ final opportunity for a seeding score. Well, this season they are attending the Southwest Power Regional and will have a scoring opportunity in the final week of the season.

Hard to say what difference that will make, if any. 

I can safely speak for all the parents and fans here north of Houston who are enjoying every single second to experience the amazing talent that these performers exhibit on the field and floor over these past three seasons!

[packwick]

1 hour ago, jmartin1056 said:

I believe the year they almost medaled (2023) they were slotted pretty far from top 3 and then just barely missed out on a medal. Also last year I think they were pretty underrated going into Dayton. Seems to be a yearly thing where they are such an outlier at every regular season contest so it’s almost more of a guess for where there scores would line up with the Carmels and Arcadias of the SW realm.

tw's standings have actually been fairly accurate predictors for them the past 3 yrs, despite coming from an earlier regional score. in 2023 their standing was 4th w/ a 90.5 compared to Avon's 3rd w/ a 90.8, pretty much exactly the gap that happened in finals, tho twhs did full-point Avon in semifinals.

last yr they were slightly underrated compared to Tarpon. 89.8 to 90.2 in the standings. but then twhs beat tarpon by a full point in finals and won every judge over them i think. still, only a little over a point off is pretty accurate.

i wanna say that that's just how good wgi's judges are, but the reality is that the standings send a strong message to all of em, esp in a class like SW where it's easier to keep track of all the guards.

kinda makes me happy that twhs is doing Dallas this year, gives em another shot to make a statement.

[Tubalord11]

1 hour ago, TWHSPercDad said:

That is a good point, @jmartin1056.

Over the past three seasons, the WGI Austin Regional was TWHS’ final opportunity for a seeding score. Well, this season they are attending the Southwest Power Regional and will have a scoring opportunity in the final week of the season.

Hard to say what difference that will make, if any. 

I can safely speak for all the parents and fans here north of Houston who are enjoying every single second to experience the amazing talent that these performers exhibit on the field and floor over these past three seasons!

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW EXCITED I AM TO SEE THEM LIVE!!! Will probably be crying after finals lol 

[Rubisco]

On 3/4/2025 at 11:41 PM, packwick said:

i wanna say that that's just how good wgi's judges are, but the reality is that the standings send a strong message to all of em, esp in a class like SW where it's easier to keep track of all the guards.

I agree. There's quite a lot of pressure placed on judges in WGI to conform to the overall consensus opinion. Few want to risk being the "weird one", because that means potentially tough conversations with both the team and the chief judge.

We see this pressure between rounds a lot, too. Look at the A class results from Austin, for example. 1st place in finals was The Woodlands, but look at their prelims results. Yes, most of the judges had them 1st overall in prelims, too, but the two who didn't: Movement with a 20th place overall, and one of the GE judges with a tie for 13th overall. Both of them are new or relatively new to WGI, and both drastically fell in line after finals despite judging the exact same captions -- moving the unit up to 2nd and 1st, respectively. How much do you want to bet that those two judges saw the prelims results (or just the finals schedule) and went, "Uh-oh!"

Happens all the time! This, of course, could lead us to argue that prelims results shouldn't be released before finals, and that the finals schedules should be randomized, to improve judging autonomy.

[Rubisco]

On 3/5/2025 at 12:17 AM, Tubalord11 said:

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW EXCITED I AM TO SEE THEM LIVE!!! Will probably be crying after finals lol 

I'm actually most excited to see some of these DFW guards we haven't gotten a glimpse of yet. In particular, I'm hopeful that Emerson kills it in their new class and is in the running for Dayton finals.

Texas scholastics are all quite strong this year, it seems. I wish we had an Independent World guard to match! Of course, I'm still looking forward to seeing Mirage and Menage. I bet they've made lots of improvements since that first regional. 👍

[Tubalord11]

1 hour ago, Rubisco said:

I'm actually most excited to see some of these DFW guards we haven't gotten a glimpse of yet. In particular, I'm hopeful that Emerson kills it in their new class and is in the running for Dayton finals.

Texas scholastics are all quite strong this year, it seems. I wish we had an Independent World guard to match! Of course, I'm still looking forward to seeing Mirage and Menage. I bet they've made lots of improvements since that first regional. 👍

Yes I’m very excited for Emerson as well with how well their season has gone, the SO lineup is crazy strong, very excited for my first live WGI event!