UIL 4A State Marching Contest 2024 (Nov. 13)

[SETXgal]

3 minutes ago, just.misty said:

I feel like sometimes the judging is a bit biased and that there are definitely pre-determined favorites.  And you can be a smaller budget band and advance - I've seen it and lived it.  Personally, not to knock the more rigid shows, but I think the ones that are more DCI like are more demanding physically and UIL should rethink their stance on shows like that.  Rigid does not mean better, cleaner, or more exceptional, and more lyrical and fluid does not mean less than, messier, or lacking.

 

13 minutes ago, thejitfromband said:

This is actually hilarious because celina swept yet their show is the epitome of parking and barking. I can't with certainty because I didn't pay much attention to their show at finals but it's the typical woodwind playing with brass marching and vice versa. So...

We only saw them once & it didn't stand out as park & bark, but it was a long day. They did do some challenging formations & transitions but I don't recall if they were playing. I will probably watch their video this week. They clearly know what the judges are looking for better than any of us in here. Sometimes formations look messy from lower down, but clean from up high where the judges are.

[criscubes]

I definitely think while Celina is clean, SS was definitely first imo. Celina is boring and doesn't march a challenging show paired with challenging music like the other bands in area C. If the judges really claim that bands in Texas play While marching and not march the play, Celina, as clean and balanced as they are, SS was just as clean and balanced and they were by far more technical than Celina. If the judges can't follow their of rules and standards, bands and students who care will not be happy even if they qualify or not. Students understand that every single band works hard and practice with the idea that judges will be fair and unbiased, but every year it feels like all they care about is volume and size, and their favorite shows. I'm not sure if it's true what was said, but if a judge really did refuse to place a band higher just because he felt like it while the other judges all unanimously agreed to place them higher, then that judge shouldn't be judging. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, bands or judges and parents or directors, but when you notice the score cards are being ignored and the whole audience agrees, favoritism is so apparent, and it should raise a few eyebrows.

[thejitfromband]

Just now, SETXgal said:

 

We only saw them once & it didn't stand out as park & bark, but it was a long day. They did do some challenging formations & transitions but I don't recall if they were playing. I will probably watch their video this week. They clearly know what the judges are looking for better than any of us in here. Sometimes formations look messy from lower down, but clean from up high where the judges are.

Yes please watch their show. It's all park and bark and their music isn't challenging whatsoever. Euther way the judges thought they were clearly the best band so I guess I'm a terrible judge or we're all missing something here that we don't know...

[thejitfromband]

1 minute ago, criscubes said:

I definitely think while Celina is clean, SS was definitely first imo. Celina is boring and doesn't march a challenging show paired with challenging music like the other bands in area C. If the judges really claim that bands in Texas play While marching and not march the play, Celina, as clean and balanced as they are, SS was just as clean and balanced and they were by far more technical than Celina. If the judges can't follow their of rules and standards, bands and students who care will not be happy even if they qualify or not. Students understand that every single band works hard and practice with the idea that judges will be fair and unbiased, but every year it feels like all they care about is volume and size, and their favorite shows. I'm not sure if it's true what was said, but if a judge really did refuse to place a band higher just because he felt like it while the other judges all unanimously agreed to place them higher, then that judge shouldn't be judging. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, bands or judges and parents or directors, but when you notice the score cards are being ignored and the whole audience agrees, favoritism is so apparent, and it should raise a few eyebrows.

I heard something about Farmersville being absolutely tanked by a judge both prelims and finals. You're from Farmersville so I think you would know more than me but if that's true that's disgusting. Looking at the recap I kind of see and Farmersville shouldn't have been placed that low in music. Their sound was very balanced and good. Their double lounging feature was awesome as well and if I recall they were the ONLY band with a multiple articulation moment. In my eyes Farmersville was at least top 3 in music. Their sound was awesome and their hard moments were not messy whatsoever. They definitely should've been top 3 from what I saw from the stands.

[GarbagePatchKid]

18 minutes ago, thejitfromband said:

Yes please watch their show. It's all park and bark and their music isn't challenging whatsoever. Euther way the judges thought they were clearly the best band so I guess I'm a terrible judge or we're all missing something here that we don't know...

So I’m assuming you are from a school who didn’t place as high as you wanted. That’s ok. There’s always next year! 
 

I would say Sulphur is the epitome of park and bark. I’m going to say it: I really do not like the SS show. The theme has been done over and over again and it is not as challenging. They are loud and a crowd pleaser, but it’s still sloppy. I was surprised to see them place so high. They actually came in first in prelims. 
 

We disagree AND THAT IS OK!
 

I know that a lot of you (especially students from competing schools) do not like shows like what Celina and maybe even Panther creek do. You need to sit down and listen to the intricacy of the music and watch how much they move. A lot of you are claiming judging issues in area c and area b but that is your bias shining through. Both of those shows have a huge number of sets and the music is dang hard. Both of those schools have incredible uniformity in their movement and rich colors in their sounds, dynamic contrast, and the exact opposite of park and bark. They barely stand still. 
 

As a disclaimer, I have no connections to any of these bands. Im just an old man marching band nerd who lives in Collin county and sees them a lot. This forum is currently dominated by students and emotions are high. Not here to argue with anyone. I’m just asking you to put your bias aside and take a neutral, objective look. 
 

fyi - the schedule is out!

 

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/4A_Prelims_2024.pdf

[criscubes]

9 minutes ago, thejitfromband said:

I heard something about Farmersville being absolutely tanked by a judge both prelims and finals. You're from Farmersville so I think you would know more than me but if that's true that's disgusting. Looking at the recap I kind of see and Farmersville shouldn't have been placed that low in music. Their sound was very balanced and good. Their double lounging feature was awesome as well and if I recall they were the ONLY band with a multiple articulation moment. In my eyes Farmersville was at least top 3 in music. Their sound was awesome and their hard moments were not messy whatsoever. They definitely should've been top 3 from what I saw from the stands.

Yes, idk the amount, but many judges placed us 4th and 5th, and one judge placed us 12th or 13th if I recall which brought us down a lot. 

I understand that maybe judges see differently, but performing right after Celina in Prelims really didn't leave the judges much wiggle room for us, so it really felt like they used out band as a cushion for themselves. Later in Finals, since we were first to perform, it also felt like they used us as a cushion. I don't think we deserve a top 2 finish. We had plenty of spots to clean musically and in marching. It really felt unjust that we were the cushion for the judges, since so many of the other bands agreed we were up there and so many spectators as well. We are a small program and really we are just happy to finally break into state after 7 years and 2 consecutive years of being alternates in area B, OUCH.

[GarbagePatchKid]

1 minute ago, criscubes said:

Yes, idk the amount, but many judges placed us 4th and 5th, and one judge placed us 12th or 13th if I recall which brought us down a lot. 

I understand that maybe judges see differently, but performing right after Celina in Prelims really didn't leave the judges much wiggle room for us, so it really felt like they used out band as a cushion for themselves. Later in Finals, since we were first to perform, it also felt like they used us as a cushion. I don't think we deserve a top 2 finish. We had plenty of spots to clean musically and in marching. It really felt unjust that we were the cushion for the judges, since so many of the other bands agreed we were up there and so many spectators as well. We are a small program and really we are just happy to finally break into state after 7 years and 2 consecutive years of being alternates in area B, OUCH.

Very happy for you! The Farmersville parents were wonderful to sit around at the contest. The joy on their faces when they knew you were advancing was beautiful to see!

I know you are upset about your spot in prelims. There are rules that determine the order. They are pasted below:

Qualifying bands are assigned a draw order using the randomize tool of FileMaker Pro. Then, these bands will be divided into three equal groups based on one-way mileage to the contest site.

Group I: closest 1/3 competitors

Group II: middle 1/3 competitors

Group III: farthest 1/3 competitors

Using the following method, a Prelim performance order will be determined. Bands will be scheduled based on the draw order, with the following allowance for mileage from each school to the contest site using Google Maps.

Group II Bands: Performances will not be earlier than 1/2 way through Group I.
Group III Bands: Performances will not be earlier than 1/2 way through Group II.

the performance order will include only the bands 1) that checked “Area Intent - Open” on their Region Entry, 2) that are certified at their Region Marching Contest, and 3) have contacted Mike Bullock indicating their intent to advance.

[just.me]

9 minutes ago, MaybeAMusician said:

Honestly, I thought Aubrey shouldn’t have even come close to third. Messy forms, inconsistent foot timing, directionless long notes, and muddy articulations. No where near a third place band or even a top five band in my opinion. Krum, Gatesville, and Robinson all deserved a place higher. 

Sanger should have gone to the finals over a couple other IMO...  They got hosed.

[MaybeAMusician]

7 minutes ago, just.misty said:

Sanger should have gone to the finals over a couple other IMO...  They got hosed.

I agree. Sanger’s show had a huge quality increase from what they put out last year. 

[Tubalord11]

Congratulations to all the bands who qualified for the 4A state contest!!! I’ll drop my predictions later, haven’t been able to see a lot of these shows so I’m gonna try and catch up over these next couple days…though I do have Panther Creek winning, though I think Celina, SS or China Springs could as well, gonna be tight this time around, lots of programs having their best season yet!! 

[Apache]

25 minutes ago, GarbagePatchKid said:

So I’m assuming you are from a school who didn’t place as high as you wanted. That’s ok. There’s always next year! 
 

I would say Sulphur is the epitome of park and bark. I’m going to say it: I really do not like the SS show. The theme has been done over and over again and it is not as challenging. They are loud and a crowd pleaser, but it’s still sloppy. I was surprised to see them place so high. They actually came in first in prelims. 
 

We disagree AND THAT IS OK!
 

I know that a lot of you (especially students from competing schools) do not like shows like what Celina and maybe even Panther creek do. You need to sit down and listen to the intricacy of the music and watch how much they move. A lot of you are claiming judging issues in area c and area b but that is your bias shining through. Both of those shows have a huge number of sets and the music is dang hard. Both of those schools have incredible uniformity in their movement and rich colors in their sounds, dynamic contrast, and the exact opposite of park and bark. They barely stand still. 
 

As a disclaimer, I have no connections to any of these bands. Im just an old man marching band nerd who lives in Collin county and sees them a lot. This forum is currently dominated by students and emotions are high. Not here to argue with anyone. I’m just asking you to put your bias aside and take a neutral, objective look. 
 

fyi - the schedule is out!

 

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/4A_Prelims_2024.pdf

I didn’t have an issue with the way it shook out in area C. I did think North Lamar had a better show than Bridge City. But barely. The first half of their show is spectacular. I hope they can continue to grow this next week. (NL grad bias)
 

I don’t think a lot of the commenters understand how incredibly difficult the body choreography is in Celinas show. I think marching and playing is actually easier. We used to do a lot of choreo in high school and I felt that it always took more time to clean.I agree about Sulphur Springs Show. It’s very loud visually and musically the whole time. There is definitely a difference in achievement with both of those bands and everyone else.
I think Farmersville is great. I don’t think it is as difficult from a group standpoint as some people have said. 
 

I loved seeing some bands make finals that have struggled recently. Community, Wills Point, Van Alstyne did a great job. 
 

how about PG!!!! Go get em! I missed Lumberton. Congrats to them for advancing.

ultimately, everyone needs to celebrate their performances and not drag other bands because it didn’t turn out they way you wanted.

[LKendrick]

47 minutes ago, Apache said:

I didn’t have an issue with the way it shook out in area C. I did think North Lamar had a better show than Bridge City. But barely. The first half of their show is spectacular. I hope they can continue to grow this next week. (NL grad bias)
 

I don’t think a lot of the commenters understand how incredibly difficult the body choreography is in Celinas show. I think marching and playing is actually easier. We used to do a lot of choreo in high school and I felt that it always took more time to clean.I agree about Sulphur Springs Show. It’s very loud visually and musically the whole time. There is definitely a difference in achievement with both of those bands and everyone else.
I think Farmersville is great. I don’t think it is as difficult from a group standpoint as some people have said. 
 

I loved seeing some bands make finals that have struggled recently. Community, Wills Point, Van Alstyne did a great job. 
 

how about PG!!!! Go get em! I missed Lumberton. Congrats to them for advancing.

ultimately, everyone needs to celebrate their performances and not drag other bands because it didn’t turn out they way you wanted.

^^^
The attention to detail in what Celina does is why they have two state championships.  They're impeccable. 

[Bandnerd178]

I might have missed it but I thought panther creek was going to easily take area champs… did something happen or did china springs just have an amazing run? 

[MaybeAMusician]

13 minutes ago, Bandnerd178 said:

I might have missed it but I thought panther creek was going to easily take area champs… did something happen or did china springs just have an amazing run? 

I think panther creek’s performance left the door slightly open for china springs to swoop in with their very solid finals run especially in music. Panther creek has undoubtedly the cleanest marching in my opinion, but CS’s music was how they got the win. It was played very well, very clean stuff, lots of dynamics and direction. I found PC’s music in finals to be a bit one note as opposed to prelims (even though it was still very clean). 

[Fanboy]

2 hours ago, thejitfromband said:

I heard something about Farmersville being absolutely tanked by a judge both prelims and finals. You're from Farmersville so I think you would know more than me but if that's true that's disgusting. Looking at the recap I kind of see and Farmersville shouldn't have been placed that low in music. Their sound was very balanced and good. Their double lounging feature was awesome as well and if I recall they were the ONLY band with a multiple articulation moment. In my eyes Farmersville was at least top 3 in music. Their sound was awesome and their hard moments were not messy whatsoever. They definitely should've been top 3 from what I saw from the stands.

No they were not the ONLY band with multiple tonguing. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. 

[thejitfromband]

11 minutes ago, Fanboy said:

No they were not the ONLY band with multiple tonguing. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. 

Which other band had something like that then? I wasn't sitting in the stands for every single band...

[bandnerd310]

After reading some of your comments I think we need to understand that students from all of these bands read these replies. If you support a band go ahead and say all your positives about them. I don’t think we should be going out and saying negative things about other bands. They all work hard and there’s probably a reason why they placed what they did last night. Again if you like a band or bands go and support them if you don’t then don’t talk about them at all. Let’s be proud of everyone regardless if they qualified or not because again they all worked extremely hard!

[thejitfromband]

11 minutes ago, Fanboy said:

No they were not the ONLY band with multiple tonguing. You clearly do not know what you are talking about. 

Which other band had something like that then? I wasn't sitting in the stands for every single band...

[Apache]

2 minutes ago, thejitfromband said:

Which other band had something like that then? I wasn't sitting in the stands for every single band...

North Lamar.

[Cloud902]

6 minutes ago, Apache said:

North Lamar.

Exactly what I was ganna say. 

[thejitfromband]

9 minutes ago, Apache said:

North Lamar.

That explains it. North Lamar was one of the few bands I missed

[TexasStrangers]

3 hours ago, Apache said:

I didn’t have an issue with the way it shook out in area C. I did think North Lamar had a better show than Bridge City. But barely. The first half of their show is spectacular. I hope they can continue to grow this next week. (NL grad bias)
 

I don’t think a lot of the commenters understand how incredibly difficult the body choreography is in Celinas show. I think marching and playing is actually easier. We used to do a lot of choreo in high school and I felt that it always took more time to clean.I agree about Sulphur Springs Show. It’s very loud visually and musically the whole time. There is definitely a difference in achievement with both of those bands and everyone else.
I think Farmersville is great. I don’t think it is as difficult from a group standpoint as some people have said. 
 

I loved seeing some bands make finals that have struggled recently. Community, Wills Point, Van Alstyne did a great job. 
 

how about PG!!!! Go get em! I missed Lumberton. Congrats to them for advancing.

ultimately, everyone needs to celebrate their performances and not drag other bands because it didn’t turn out they way you wanted.

I also believe a lot of people don't realize that the music selections play a huge part in the scoring system as well. It's almost like gymnastics, the harder the routine or the harder the music you actually get a boost which could result in higher scoring. I see lots of schools with a good march but play music that is not very difficult at all. Of course let's not forget visuals, several bands can march but have a difficult time putting visuals in the show. 

[cheeto2401]

16 hours ago, thejitfromband said:

I normally would but the judging today was not it. I do not agree with placements especially in area b and c. It seems like judges simply picked the bands that were the loudest and later in the day. That's not how you judge a contest. Hopefully judges at state are competent.

Anyhow, I do feel like breaking top 10 this year will be extremely hard. These bands are getting better and better every year. Good luck to everyone especially those new comers like Aubrey and Farmersville.

all i know was that area b finals order was top half goes last, and you can clearly see that in the prelims score sheet, robinson, aubrey, gatesville, panther creek, and china spring all went after the judges break in between finals, and they were all top 5 in prelims

[SETXgal]

4 hours ago, thejitfromband said:

Yes please watch their show. It's all park and bark and their music isn't challenging whatsoever. Euther way the judges thought they were clearly the best band so I guess I'm a terrible judge or we're all missing something here that we don't know...

If Celina's directors did a workshop on marching band, it could sell out in minutes. They have clearly cracked the code for high scores at UIL & have found their perfect team of composers, choreographers, drill designers, etc.

If I were them I might be trying to get that team under an exclusivity contract, lol!

They got ranked 1st in finals yesterday by all 5 judges. They have got something there, even if I don't quite understand it. At this point, it makes more sense to try to figure out their formula instead of everyone saying their recipe is too bland while they continue winning. Jmo

[SETXgal]

Just now, cheeto2401 said:

all i know was that area b finals order was top half goes last, and you can clearly see that in the prelims score sheet, robinson, aubrey, gatesville, panther creek, and china spring all went after the judges break in between finals, and they were all top 5 in prelims

Drawing spots for bottom half then top half is pretty common. The same was done in Area C.