UIL 4A State Marching Contest 2024 (Nov. 13)

[bxOxAxUIL]

2 minutes ago, Cloud902 said:

What I see on the scoresheet is a section of the show they judge with a ranking. Is there  more detailed version schools are given that gives them exactly what will get them ranked first? If not then everything is just subject to what ever the judges personally likes to see in shows. What I’m saying is the shows are catering to judges like or have liked in most recent years. I am new to marching band competitions, so I’m trying to make it make sense, but it doesn’t. I came into this expecting it to be like figure skating, you have to hit so many moves and your score goes up and down based on difficulty of moves. 
 

I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s placement, I think I’m more confused more than anything.  

There is a raw score but that's what puts the groups into their ranking order.

[SETXgal]

22 minutes ago, Cloud902 said:

What I see on the scoresheet is a section of the show they judge with a ranking. Is there  more detailed version schools are given that gives them exactly what will get them ranked first? If not then everything is just subject to what ever the judges personally likes to see in shows. What I’m saying is the shows are catering to judges like or have liked in most recent years. I am new to marching band competitions, so I’m trying to make it make sense, but it doesn’t. I came into this expecting it to be like figure skating, you have to hit so many moves and your score goes up and down based on difficulty of moves. 
 

I’m not trying to discredit anyone’s placement, I think I’m more confused more than anything.  

The score sheets used by 5 & 7 judge panels are available to the public online.

[Cloud902]

1 minute ago, SETXgal said:

The score sheets used by 5 & 7 judge panels are available to the public online.

Is it the same one like the prelims and finals just blank? Someone above mentioned metrics and those scoresheets don’t really show anything. That’s why I’m asking if maybe there’s something I’m missing. 

[Cloud902]

6 minutes ago, Bandnerd178 said:

So that should allow them to say things like that??? right…

Who said what? There’s a lot of people talking. I went back through what I quoted and typed trying figure it out, but couldn’t. 

[utee94]

33 minutes ago, Cloud902 said:

Is it the same one like the prelims and finals just blank? Someone above mentioned metrics and those scoresheets don’t really show anything. That’s why I’m asking if maybe there’s something I’m missing. 

Here's a sample of the 7-judge adjudication sheets.  Not sure if they're the most recent or not, they're on the UIL site so probably the current ones.  They list details on what each judge is looking for, and the range that each judge will score based on observation.

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/State_7-Judge_Adjudication_Sheets.pdf

[TexasStrangers]

UIL many years ago use to post the Raw scores from each Judge in each State Competition so you could actually see how close the scoring was. Now, they only post rankings from each judge on the schools. So, if a school was ranked 2nd and another 3rd. You don't know how far apart it was or was it really close. The directors have the raw scores but most of them do not share that stuff online. 

[Cloud902]

45 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Here's a sample of the 7-judge adjudication sheets.  Not sure if they're the most recent or not, they're on the UIL site so probably the current ones.  They list details on what each judge is looking for, and the range that each judge will score based on observation.

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/State_7-Judge_Adjudication_Sheets.pdf

Thank you, this is what I wanted to know. Have never seen these before. I’m ganna go look them over. 

[Apache]

Big shout out to the North Lamar! People been hating on them all season and they showed up first to finals!

[Band mom 123]

Randall was robbed!! I’m not putting any other bands down, just saying that Randall should have been in the finals and definitely not 23rd. They had an amazing performance, great marching, great sound, great visuals and they deserved better! If the judges didn’t see that, then I definitely have to say that the judges were biased or simply not paying attention. People from all of the other bands felt the same way, that Randall was not scored accurately. 

[Liam Allen]

7 hours ago, Sensei skittles said:

Hello, to all the china spring players here! I caught your performance on YouTube and your ballad is so good. Like, whoever your music composers are, wow. And the way you guys played the piece too just sells it. Does anyone know the name of the song?

Hurt by Trent Reznor.  However it’s based on the Eric Whitacre choral arrangement.

[Liam Allen]

12 minutes ago, Rob I. said:

I know the kids are heart broken but I cannot believe someone would say it. I’m sure having beaten Panther Greek in the Area championship with a program that developed and became even better and was ranked by judges very differently from state is what confuses and frustrates them. 
 

We all know the hours that the kids put in, so it may seem like… here are the rules until we get to state and now these are the rules… so I’m sure they are upset. It does not justify what might have been said and I’d like to know if it was said or just by 1 person and inflated. Still not okay for 1 person to say that ever. 
 

But we all know the Argyle program wins and those who replicate it wins in 4A. It’s not an opinion but an objective fact, regardless if you think it is exciting, difficult, and powerful. That does NOT diminish from the fact that Celina did amazing. We also know once you go to 5A or 6A, it does not work and things must change, as Argyle has been doing to get closer to making and finally getting to State and finals finishing 7th this year, their best in 5A. There program is very different than when they’d sweep 4A over and over and the couple of years in 5A. 
 

So this is why folks say there is a formula and if you follow it, it certainly helps you. This is also why some 4A schools moving to 5A do better in that style of judging because they are more attuned to the 5A & 6A programs. 
 

But I’m sure there is not a bunch of China Spring kids saying this. Maybe they could have agreed about being frustrated, but I’m inclined to believe they would decry such a statement. No one wishes ill-will on anyone because the kids all deserve a huge congratulations for making it to state. That is amazing and doing it 5 years in a row and celebrating 36 years of sweepstakes in the Area qualifier is pretty amazing. I will miss seeing my child in band but am hoping they might play at their college next. LOL. 
 

In my biased opinion, China Spring won and would have won state had they not even made it past Area. Ha-ha. 

I hate to say it but being an alum of the program I can say from experience that at least a few people are definitely saying that.  People said that back when I was there.  They are certainly entitled to their opinion(I thought Panther Creek was more deserving of the gold this year), but there are definitely a small number that go beyond the scope of rational disagreement.  I think that the kids thought they had the best performance of all time when they did not.  They’re on the field doing all the things, and judges are sitting in the box.  Heck, I was in the stands, and you can go back and see exactly where I put them in my finals prediction despite my obvious bias toward them.  It’s unfortunate that a few are making the program look bad, and it happens when you don’t get the result you wanted.  They’ll come back next year with a score to settle, and hopefully will be all the more bought-in to the process because of it.

[waynet2010]

Congrats to all the bands. Super excited I got to watch Canyon in prelims and finals for the 3rd straight year. It was a fantastic experience and all these bands were incredible. 

[Rob I.]

17 minutes ago, Liam Allen said:

I hate to say it but being an alum of the program I can say from experience that at least a few people are definitely saying that.  People said that back when I was there.  They are certainly entitled to their opinion(I thought Panther Creek was more deserving of the gold this year), but there are definitely a small number that go beyond the scope of rational disagreement.  I think that the kids thought they had the best performance of all time when they did not.  They’re on the field doing all the things, and judges are sitting in the box.  Heck, I was in the stands, and you can go back and see exactly where I put them in my finals prediction despite my obvious bias toward them.  It’s unfortunate that a few are making the program look bad, and it happens when you don’t get the result you wanted.  They’ll come back next year with a score to settle, and hopefully will be all the more bought-in to the process because of it.

Well, this is why I said, “In my biased opinion, China Spring won and would have won state had they not even made it past Area. Ha-ha. ”. LOL!! 😉😆😂🤣😂

[sk1ee]

1 hour ago, Liam Allen said:

I hate to say it but being an alum of the program I can say from experience that at least a few people are definitely saying that.  People said that back when I was there.  They are certainly entitled to their opinion(I thought Panther Creek was more deserving of the gold this year), but there are definitely a small number that go beyond the scope of rational disagreement.  I think that the kids thought they had the best performance of all time when they did not.  They’re on the field doing all the things, and judges are sitting in the box.  Heck, I was in the stands, and you can go back and see exactly where I put them in my finals prediction despite my obvious bias toward them.  It’s unfortunate that a few are making the program look bad, and it happens when you don’t get the result you wanted.  They’ll come back next year with a score to settle, and hopefully will be all the more bought-in to the process because of it.

I've also been apart of the program and experienced it, honestly the first Celina win was my senior year and I felt we put everything on that field and should have placed better, but I was frustrated at myself, I'm sure that a lot of the students in CS right now also feel that way. I think PC also should of gotten gold, CS has had the same issues every year, where we think we got this and it's gonna be easy bc we have done well at area, or prelims. I think it's just a lot of emotions going around through everyone, and they will be back and better next year.

[Liam Allen]

2 hours ago, Lemonpanda2328 said:

The head drum major.

Thank you

[Liam Allen]

1 hour ago, Atssbsax1 said:

lol. Oh and don't forget pay to win. I was watching from the stands and could he was on an ex or z couldn't tell which one but probably an ex and he was also on a concept. Talk about pay to win rich celina...

Oh buddy I’m gonna tell you right now switching to an ex and a concept does not automatically make you a good player.  Have to have good fundamentals especially with the concept since it’s a slightly more open mouthpiece facing.  I’m on a 62III and concept(just switched to concept a few months ago) and it took some work to get used to even at my college level.

[TrebleMaker2]

Maybe it is time for us all to take a step back and look at the big picture here. Less than 10% of all 4A bands qualify for State Marching-to get here is a huge achievement!. Sometimes in the heat of competition it is easy to forget that students are in band because it brings them (and their audiences) JOY! We all know the other benefits-sense of community, lifelong friendships, work ethic, etc. The life long lessons are the biggest benefit, and that includes being humble in a close win as well as dealing with disappointments with grace and appreciation for everyone’s efforts. in a few years the memories of crazy band trips, friends, and creating something special musically as a group will be the sweetest trophy of all. I enjoyed streaming all the bands, not just 4A but all the classifications, and the overwhelming feeling in every interview after a show was how much these kids cared for each other and the pride they brought to the field representing their school, It was wonderful. 

[GarbagePatchKid]

So, I’ve lived in Collin County my entire life (‘McKinney high, class of 1972)!. I know some of the rapidly expanding districts in this area are experiencing budget shortfalls due to property taxes not catching up with expenses and the state’s Robin Hood program where tax revenue is recaptured. Prosper had a huge shortfall, I’m surprised they didn’t have to have massive layoffs. I live right on the prosper/fridco line pretty close to Panther creek actually.  I looked it up, sure enough, Celina had a big budget shortfall this year due to the issues above and even had to have a proposition this year to balance the budget. There’s a sulphur springs parent on Facebook making a fool of herself on the uil page saying money buys medals. Guys, y’all need to stop this talk. If this were true, Frisco ISD schools would win every year with their close to billion dollar budget. North Lamar also had to pass a budget shortfall. They’ve had major financial issues for decades and yet they have multiple state titles. This argument is ridiculous and you need to move on. 
 

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/prosper-celina/education/2024/06/26/celina-isd-officials-to-use-fund-balance-in-8782m-budget-for-fy-2024-25/

 

https://easttexasradio.com/north-lamar-isd-approves-budget-2/

 

https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/prosper-celina/education/2024/07/05/icymi-prosper-isd-officials-project-203m-budget-shortfall-and-5-more-education-updates/

[LKendrick]

Good, or not really, morning   

Some really disappointing and unacceptable discussion here.  Have cleaned it up here and some people you won't be hearing from again.  

Personal attacks on specific band members are incredibly inappropriate and disgusting to read.  And are totally unacceptable for this website.  It's not how we do things here.  Please continue to discuss (passionately!) things you may like or didn't, but there is a very clear line that was crossed on here.  

We are better than this.  

[J-Mike16]

1 hour ago, LKendrick said:

Good, or not really, morning   

Some really disappointing and unacceptable discussion here.  Have cleaned it up here and some people you won't be hearing from again.  

Personal attacks on specific band members are incredibly inappropriate and disgusting to read.  And are totally unacceptable for this website.  It's not how we do things here.  Please continue to discuss (passionately!) things you may like or didn't, but there is a very clear line that was crossed on here.  

We are better than this.  

I was very much looking forward to seeing you come in and clean up the mess. It's really sad seeing how people talk about certain programs.

[Euphoniblue]

1 hour ago, LKendrick said:

Good, or not really, morning   

Some really disappointing and unacceptable discussion here.  Have cleaned it up here and some people you won't be hearing from again.  

Personal attacks on specific band members are incredibly inappropriate and disgusting to read.  And are totally unacceptable for this website.  It's not how we do things here.  Please continue to discuss (passionately!) things you may like or didn't, but there is a very clear line that was crossed on here.  

We are better than this.  

Glad I wasn't able to see it, thank you.

[GarbagePatchKid]

Just now, J-Mike16 said:

I was very much looking forward to seeing you come in and clean up the mess. It's really sad seeing how people talk about certain programs.

I always appreciate your insight @J-Mike16. You often give your personal opinion of bands and although I rarely agree with you on your rankings (haha), you always find multiple positive things to say about each band you see. You never get involved with the pettiness that occasionally erupts on this page like some of the other regulars do. Thank you for your insight and the respect you show all the Texas Bands. 

[Bandnerd178]

9 minutes ago, J-Mike16 said:

I was very much looking forward to seeing you come in and clean up the mess. It's really sad seeing how people talk about certain programs.

Agreed I have a feeling the celina sax was definitely reading these comments and just feeling attacked just because they ended up winning.

[Apache]

Don’t let the haters get you Celina. You were awesome. 
to all you haters, you are doing more to make people think negative things about your program than any placement ever could. You are just showing how much you don’t know anything about how to win and how ignorant you really are. 
 

Congrats to everyone who made it to the State!

 

[LKendrick]

53 minutes ago, J-Mike16 said:

I was very much looking forward to seeing you come in and clean up the mess. It's really sad seeing how people talk about certain programs.

Sorry it took so long I was passed out on the 8 hour bus ride from San Antonio lol