UIL 6A State Marching Contest 2024 (Nov 11-12)

[Kevisnotstress]

Cywoods was robbed I think they should have been in bottom 7 in finals I loved the show all those judges I pray that they find God before I find them.

[SpudMuffin]

15 hours ago, SkooterBooter said:

Agree.  They're not the only ones.  Brownsville Hanna is on the border. 88-92% economically disadvantaged. Except for 2023, they've been a consistent state participant since I think 2006?  I been following them in the Valley - great sounds, cool show, and a giant octopus?????  LOL

I though they had a fun show - and geez those kids can play.  Wonder why they don't get any credit - this was their 12th time at the State contest.

 

I went to a TMEA thingy that Hanna did as a highlighted program - their wind ensemble was stunning!

This is what I learned;

No private lesson program

No extra teaching staff (no marching techs, no drum techs, no specialists)

Most kids don't own an instrument.

The band fee thingy is like $100

I was talking to a few of their parents at the contest

-they do a lot of fund raising

-the band directors teach the TMEA all-state music - no private lessons

-band fee - they pay what they can

-the head director has been there a long time

-they don't focus on the "were gonna win" thingy - they focus on "let's give our personal best every time"

 

How can programs like these expect to compete against the huge, well funded bands up state?

Why don't these kids get a shout out too- everyone only talks about the big programs - but these kids are accomplishing a lot with very little

Flame away

[josephm15]

1 hour ago, bchorn said:

I completely disagree.  I think its delusional thinking that every band goes to the state marching contest with the mindset that they are going to win state.  I don't even think every band believes they have a chance at making finals.

The bands with a chance to win state know who they are...and everyone else has the mindset of trying to get the highest placement possible.

Vista Ridge placed 24th at 6A 2016. As a Vista parent during that time, we just wanted to see our daughter perform in finals. The kids had other hopes in 2018 - they believed they could do it, and they won it all.

If they just settled for making finals, I don't think they would've been able to pull it off. Hope is real, and it's not delusional for other bands to believe they could do the same thing.

[MadHornist]

Vista Ridge is from Cedar Park.

From Google - Wealthiest suburb: Cedar Park has the wealthiest ZIP code among suburbs in the Austin metro. 

There are definitely differences that help all the Leander ISD schools to dominate at state. Besides “hard work and believing that they can win state”, their schools can afford top tier uniforms and props, etc.

Leander ISD doesn’t offer orchestra, so the band programs benefit from additional funds that might have been otherwise spent on orchestra, and the bodies of the musicians who might have otherwise chosen orchestra if it was an option. 

Again, I don’t wish to detract from the elite band programs, but I only wish that they would acknowledge that there are external factors that make them elite besides the hard work of their musicians.

The Hanna parent made a good point that the lower ranked bands that consistently make state don’t get recognized for their consistent appearances.  Maybe that could be something that’s added to the distribution of the participation awards at prelims.  In addition to introducing schools, the UIL should add details of how many consistent appearances the schools have made at the SMBC.  There are a lot of “really good, consistent bands” throughout the ranks, but only the ones at the top get full credit for their accomplishments.

 

[xeran]

On 11/12/2024 at 8:04 PM, drumline8 said:

I can see why they got their percussion scores. At area, marcus prosper and flomo beat them in percussion (in order), and that kinda reflects here with these scores.

You're a percussionist, aren't you? Hebron's finals run was CLEAN. I don't understand the 5th place ACV score, but the 11th place CON score is egregious.

Especially because they took 3rd (Percussion) in prelims.

Hebron has prioritized improving percussion over the last couple years, but history suggests this particular chap judges to justify his preconceptions far more than the merits of the performance. I hope they brush it off and keep moving forward.

[Samuel Culper]

1 hour ago, MadHornist said:

Vista Ridge is from Cedar Park.

From Google - Wealthiest suburb: Cedar Park has the wealthiest ZIP code among suburbs in the Austin metro. 

There are definitely differences that help all the Leander ISD schools to dominate at state. Besides “hard work and believing that they can win state”, their schools can afford top tier uniforms and props, etc.

Leander ISD doesn’t offer orchestra, so the band programs benefit from additional funds that might have been otherwise spent on orchestra, and the bodies of the musicians who might have otherwise chosen orchestra if it was an option. 

Again, I don’t wish to detract from the elite band programs, but I only wish that they would acknowledge that there are external factors that make them elite besides the hard work of their musicians.

The Hanna parent made a good point that the lower ranked bands that consistently make state don’t get recognized for their consistent appearances.  Maybe that could be something that’s added to the distribution of the participation awards at prelims.  In addition to introducing schools, the UIL should add details of how many consistent appearances the schools have made at the SMBC.  There are a lot of “really good, consistent bands” throughout the ranks, but only the ones at the top get full credit for their accomplishments.

There are many, many schools that are considerably wealthier than Vista Ridge who have never won State or don't consistently place in the upper half of Finals in major competitions. 

Seems curious, huh?

[gregorydf01]

1 hour ago, MadHornist said:

Vista Ridge is from Cedar Park.

From Google - Wealthiest suburb: Cedar Park has the wealthiest ZIP code among suburbs in the Austin metro. 

There are definitely differences that help all the Leander ISD schools to dominate at state. Besides “hard work and believing that they can win state”, their schools can afford top tier uniforms and props, etc.

Leander ISD doesn’t offer orchestra, so the band programs benefit from additional funds that might have been otherwise spent on orchestra, and the bodies of the musicians who might have otherwise chosen orchestra if it was an option. 

Again, I don’t wish to detract from the elite band programs, but I only wish that they would acknowledge that there are external factors that make them elite besides the hard work of their musicians.

The Hanna parent made a good point that the lower ranked bands that consistently make state don’t get recognized for their consistent appearances.  Maybe that could be something that’s added to the distribution of the participation awards at prelims.  In addition to introducing schools, the UIL should add details of how many consistent appearances the schools have made at the SMBC.  There are a lot of “really good, consistent bands” throughout the ranks, but only the ones at the top get full credit for their accomplishments.

 

I believe each Band submits a script with the accomplishments prior to the contests for the announcers when signing up for the contest.   Money has nothing to do with the scripts.   The parent in question should ask the directors what was submitted on the script to the contest and if it needs correction or additions get it fixed. 

[MadHornist]

32 minutes ago, gregorydf01 said:

I believe each Band submits a script with the accomplishments prior to the contests for the announcers when signing up for the contest.   Money has nothing to do with the scripts.   The parent in question should ask the directors what was submitted on the script to the contest and if it needs correction or additions get it fixed. 

The bands do submit a script and that script is read while the band marches off the field.  However , the prelim audience largely consists of their own fans and the fans of the next few bands to perform after them.  I don’t think many band parents stick around to watch other prelim bands after their band performs because they are too busy moving equipment and chaperoning.  

Why not recognize bands for their SMBC accomplishments when everyone is assembled for the announcements of state finalists?  Did you know that the Dickinson band is a five time former state champion, or that Hanna has a long history of SMB appearances? You wouldn’t from the current way the SMB introduces the bands at the end of prelims.

[tubapop]

50 minutes ago, Samuel Culper said:

There are many, many schools that are considerably wealthier than Vista Ridge who have never won State or don't consistently place in the upper half of Finals in major competitions. 

Seems curious, huh?

OP isnt’t saying money = success. They’re saying that money helps. Look at the top 5 or top 10 and check out their socioeconomic backgrounds. Nearly all, if not all, are from wealthy suburbs. 

[oddlynormal]

10 hours ago, MadHornist said:

I’m not saying that UIL should use BOA scoring.  I just appreciate how BOA groups bands into classes based on school population.  There are plenty of “really good, consistent bands” at smaller to mid-sized 6A schools, but a 250 person band from a school with 2,500 students is not realistically going to be competitive against a 300-400 person band from a school with 3,000-4,000 students.  
 

Why not create a division two tier for the smaller bands to compete in? 
 

 

 

 

I have struggled with this as well.  I cannot see why we cannot go to a Div 1 and Div 2 6A contest like the football brackets do.  Some of the MEGA 6A are massive while there are quite a few 6A schools that are smaller.  I am curious how this would affect the contest.  Could there be a possibility of a 7A class eventually?  I know we only went to 6A to split 6 Man and 11 Man football (essentially).  I wonder what that could look like for marching band.  All of this is hypothetical and will likely never happen, but I am curious.

[itsstephenyo]

2 hours ago, xeran said:

You're a percussionist, aren't you? Hebron's finals run was CLEAN. I don't understand the 5th place ACV score, but the 11th place CON score is egregious.

Especially because they took 3rd (Percussion) in prelims.

Hebron has prioritized improving percussion over the last couple years, but history suggests this particular chap judges to justify his preconceptions far more than the merits of the performance. I hope they brush it off and keep moving forward.

Do you have the fully expanded score sheets from Finals? 

[Ruprecht88]

2 hours ago, MadHornist said:

Vista Ridge is from Cedar Park.

From Google - Wealthiest suburb: Cedar Park has the wealthiest ZIP code among suburbs in the Austin metro. 

There are definitely differences that help all the Leander ISD schools to dominate at state. Besides “hard work and believing that they can win state”, their schools can afford top tier uniforms and props, etc.

Leander ISD doesn’t offer orchestra, so the band programs benefit from additional funds that might have been otherwise spent on orchestra, and the bodies of the musicians who might have otherwise chosen orchestra if it was an option. 

Again, I don’t wish to detract from the elite band programs, but I only wish that they would acknowledge that there are external factors that make them elite besides the hard work of their musicians.

The Hanna parent made a good point that the lower ranked bands that consistently make state don’t get recognized for their consistent appearances.  Maybe that could be something that’s added to the distribution of the participation awards at prelims.  In addition to introducing schools, the UIL should add details of how many consistent appearances the schools have made at the SMBC.  There are a lot of “really good, consistent bands” throughout the ranks, but only the ones at the top get full credit for their accomplishments.

 

Cedar Park 78613 is not even close to being one of the Austin-area's wealthiest zip codes. Vista Ridge wears the same uniforms year after year while many other programs are in new uniforms every year (including some with uniform changes during their shows). There are much better examples out there of successful, wealthy programs than VR or  Cedar Park HS. 

[CosmicLimbo]

On 11/12/2024 at 9:00 PM, Mike McBandiel said:

Something ironic that I found was the 2 schools that make the 6A D1 Football State Championships every year (Duncanville & North Shore) tied here at the state marching contest, might be foreshadowing their likely matchup in Football this December lol

I was thinking the same thing these two just can’t stay away from each other 😂 they’ve played each other 5 times in the last 6 years at the state championship game

[BandMomEra]

4 hours ago, MadHornist said:

Vista Ridge is from Cedar Park.

From Google - Wealthiest suburb: Cedar Park has the wealthiest ZIP code among suburbs in the Austin metro. 

There are definitely differences that help all the Leander ISD schools to dominate at state. Besides “hard work and believing that they can win state”, their schools can afford top tier uniforms and props, etc.

Leander ISD doesn’t offer orchestra, so the band programs benefit from additional funds that might have been otherwise spent on orchestra, and the bodies of the musicians who might have otherwise chosen orchestra if it was an option. 

Again, I don’t wish to detract from the elite band programs, but I only wish that they would acknowledge that there are external factors that make them elite besides the hard work of their musicians.

The Hanna parent made a good point that the lower ranked bands that consistently make state don’t get recognized for their consistent appearances.  Maybe that could be something that’s added to the distribution of the participation awards at prelims.  In addition to introducing schools, the UIL should add details of how many consistent appearances the schools have made at the SMBC.  There are a lot of “really good, consistent bands” throughout the ranks, but only the ones at the top get full credit for their accomplishments.

 

I'm a new band parent this year, and I've already observed and learned so much.  My kid is in one of the bands that no one really talks about, and I could not be more proud of him and our band program.  Thanks for bringing this to light...there are absolutely external factors.  The kids in the "non elite" band programs work just as hard and also deserve recognition.  All of these kids are amazing, from the varsity band gold medal kids down to the ones wearing 10 year old uniforms who are just so excited to take the field with their band friends.  What a fun season we had and I can't wait for next season already!   🐾

[bchorn]

8 hours ago, bchorn said:

I completely disagree.  I think its delusional thinking that every band goes to the state marching contest with the mindset that they are going to win state.  I don't even think every band believes they have a chance at making finals.

The bands with a chance to win state know who they are...and everyone else has the mindset of trying to get the highest placement possible.

I think you're mistaking the timeframe I'm talking about here because I'm strictly talking about within that particular season.  Were the Vista Ridge kids expecting to win it all in 2016?  I don't think so.  

I think it's perfectly normal to set your expectations higher than what you did the season before.  That's human nature.  

[BandMom23-27]

18 hours ago, MadHornist said:

To be honest, it’s unrealistic for most of the bands competing in the 6A SMBC to have any aspirations of being crowned state champion or to even make it into the top ten.  Most bands lack the size or financial resources that it takes to be an elite band. For them, just making it to state marching competition is their reward.

I don’t mean to take anything away from the top bands because they have definitely earned their placement.  However, it would be nice if the 6A marching band competition was split into two divisions like football. After four years of attending the competition, it’s become obvious that after the top twenty or so, the lower ranked bands don’t get the same attention by the judges in prelims because the judges priority is to select the top bands for finals.

Would a BOA metric like 10th through 12th grade school population be a good way to divide the field, or should the divisions be decided by band size?  

Comments? 
 

 I am with a 5A band and agree, just at the 5A level.  We have bands with less than 100 kids marching with bands of 250+.  It’s almost impossible to compete visually and with the same level of sound.  Someone did analysis and of the 5 biggest bands, 4 of them were top 6 at state UIL. 

[BandMom23-27]

18 hours ago, MadHornist said:

To be honest, it’s unrealistic for most of the bands competing in the 6A SMBC to have any aspirations of being crowned state champion or to even make it into the top ten.  Most bands lack the size or financial resources that it takes to be an elite band. For them, just making it to state marching competition is their reward.

I don’t mean to take anything away from the top bands because they have definitely earned their placement.  However, it would be nice if the 6A marching band competition was split into two divisions like football. After four years of attending the competition, it’s become obvious that after the top twenty or so, the lower ranked bands don’t get the same attention by the judges in prelims because the judges priority is to select the top bands for finals.

Would a BOA metric like 10th through 12th grade school population be a good way to divide the field, or should the divisions be decided by band size?  

Comments? 
 

 I am with a 5A band and agree, just at the 5A level.  We have bands with less than 100 kids marching with bands of 250+.  It’s almost impossible to compete visually and with the same level of sound.  Someone did analysis and of the 5 biggest bands, 4 of them were top 6 at state UIL. 

[bchorn]

5 hours ago, Samuel Culper said:

There are many, many schools that are considerably wealthier than Vista Ridge who have never won State or don't consistently place in the upper half of Finals in major competitions. 

Seems curious, huh?

Leander ISD schools benefit from a variety of factors.

* No orchestra programs so band gets additional band directors (instead of orchestra directors)

* 100-200 kids that would have chosen orchestra now go to band...which increases the size of the band.

* some LISD schools incorporate JV drill team into color guard for band....which increases size of the band.

Would you believe that Vandergrift, Vista Ridge, McNeil, and Cedar Ridge all have about the same student populations? ~2600 students.  But you couldn't tell looking at the bands...because of all the stuff LISD does to push students into band.

Marching bands benefit greatly from economies of scale....so having more kids in band makes every dollar spent on band dues go a lot further. 

More techs...better designers...better props.  And all this attracts better band directors to these schools as well.

[rouseglazer1]

18 hours ago, Houston213 said:

- Cedar Ridge returns to finals after not making state the previous year

 

area d is just a monster 

[Bigbustergod]

Was this a drought year in terms of iconic shows and moments??

 

I kinda felt like this from last year but I especially feel it this year. After watching the 2024 season unfold compared to last year it just feels like in terms of the product being put out are not as special and exciting as they once were. Comparing this years shows to 2022 or 2021 leaves something to be desired in my opinion. All power to Hebron winning the work they put out is amazing, but in my opinion this years Hebron just doesn’t have the same excitement or impact like a 2021,2022, or 2019. Right now it feels some of the top bands are just trying to find out what gets them the best scores and stick with it. Which I mean that’s the way you wanna run your program 100% but I can’t lie I miss the sheer creativity and boundary pushing shows that some of these schools had. Like vandegrift, the criticism they receive for not being as exciting to watch as a Hebron or woodlands is warranted and understandable but even they used to make amazing and unforgettable moments on the field like 2022 was way better than 2023 and 24 in my opinion for vandy. I might just be blinded by nostalgia but I sure hope next year is a return to form of bands being themselves and embracing there creativity cause that’s when In my opinion an amazing season like a 2022,2021, 2019, and even 2023.

[drumline8]

8 hours ago, xeran said:

You're a percussionist, aren't you? Hebron's finals run was CLEAN. I don't understand the 5th place ACV score, but the 11th place CON score is egregious.

Especially because they took 3rd (Percussion) in prelims.

Hebron has prioritized improving percussion over the last couple years, but history suggests this particular chap judges to justify his preconceptions far more than the merits of the performance. I hope they brush it off and keep moving forward.

I am a percussionist lol. I was watching their run and yes it was clean but the content isn’t close to top 5 at this comp. I do agree with most of these finals rankings for percussion though with some interchangeable.

[lost]

18 hours ago, bchorn said:

I completely disagree.  I think its delusional thinking that every band goes to the state marching contest with the mindset that they are going to win state.  I don't even think every band believes they have a chance at making finals.

The bands with a chance to win state know who they are...and everyone else has the mindset of trying to get the highest placement possible.

The highest placement possible being winning. The moment you set this idea in your mind that winning is unrealistic and you shouldn't think you're capable of it then your program will never win and will never break out as you promote that mindset of mediocrity year after year. Believe you can win, even if you place 37th or 11th or 6th. That confidence and grit makes the difference.

To call a positive mindset "delusional" is so absurd.

[Nny14]

7 hours ago, Bigbustergod said:

Was this a drought year in terms of iconic shows and moments??

 

 

That's like, your opinion man. But seriously I have to disagree with this take and I've been seeing it pop up here the past week. I liked this year way more than last year. Aside from Marcus I thought the upper tier had much more enjoyable shows this year. Round Rock ISD was fire. There was even bubble bands like Bowie, Westlake, and Dripping Springs who were even better. This was a great year!

[bchorn]

4 hours ago, lost said:

The highest placement possible being winning. The moment you set this idea in your mind that winning is unrealistic and you shouldn't think you're capable of it then your program will never win and will never break out as you promote that mindset of mediocrity year after year. Believe you can win, even if you place 37th or 11th or 6th. That confidence and grit makes the difference.

To call a positive mindset "delusional" is so absurd.

You can still have a positive mindset of doing your absolute best without having to set your goal as winning it all.  In fact, a positive mindset recognizes that you can't control outcomes...all you can control is the effort you put into it.  And as long as you feel like you did your best, that's all that matters.  

So I'm not being a debbie downer here.  I'm just talking about setting realistic goals...and then next year setting higher goals than what you accomplished. And keep improving from there.

[braddddd]

I went to Round Rock high school and was in band all 4 years. The expectation for our band was to make finals at all comps (BOA Austin, TMC, Westlake Marching fest., BOA San Antonio, State, BOA Grand nats). We always went it to a comp aiming for first, however we all knew that at comps like state, Nats, and San Antonio we weren't going to win. Our real goal was to get as high in finals as possible. getting 7th, 8th, 9th at state was our "1st place". Beating bands like CR, Pearland, CP, Coppell, Leander was extremely important to us. So while yes we knew deep down that we weren't going to win state, that doesn't mean that it wasn't worth going. Because just making finals is already a "1st place win" for all finalist.