Loudness

[Nancy08]

It can't just be me that has a hard time making myself heard. Brass can play loud so easily, and us woodwinds have to blow our brains out just to get over the brasses mf...>_<

 

Matbe I'm exagerating a little, but is there an easier way to be loud?

[bluebellbrass07]

Use more air....?

[blusax]

This would be better answered by someone who has heard you play and is familier with the band you're in. The "more air" comment is accurate but not really helpful. Im assuming you're a sax player by your sig. Lets agree the most important difference between a brass instrument and saxophone is that the sax has a reed that vibrates and a brass players sound is produced by their lips vibrating. That said a brass players dynamic range should be greater than a reed players. Things you run into as a reed player if you're playing as loud as you possibly can... your reed with actually close up on you sealing itself onto the mouthpiece tip opening when you try to push to much air through. Also the size of the facing/tip opening on the mouthpiece will limit how much air your can push though (Why virtually all jazz mouthpieces tend to play louder than your stock C*).

 

Something you will notice with brass is their tone. I am much more suited to the classical saxophone sound vs a jazz sound. Ask joe blow trumpet player to play the same volume on a longtone with a jazz tone and a classical tone (bet you money it will be virtually the same tone, bright). So in concert band, you are playing with a dark sound that blends vs a trumpet playing with a bright sound that sticks out. That by itself will give the illusion of the trumpet being louder than the sax.

 

Quick fix I would try not knowing you. If you are getting an airy sound and can't get a piano level dynamic to come out with virtually no back pressure in your mouth. Get a softer reed. That blowing your brains out comment makes me think you have to much back pressure vs how strong your embourchure is. If you are pushing as much air through as you can and the reed is sealing itself against the mouthpiece thats a sign you would want a harder reed. I would be willing to bet softer is the way to go since many reed players associate harder reeds with being a better player (because many band directors don't watch their mouths and give misinformation to reed players they teach).

 

If this post is related to experiences in a jazz band, get a jazz mouthpiece. Stock mouthpieces like a selmer C* or something like it just arnt appropriate in that environment.

[sax5warrior]

  blusax said:

This would be better answered by someone who has heard you play and is familier with the band you're in. The "more air" comment is accurate but not really helpful. Im assuming you're a sax player by your sig. Lets agree the most important difference between a brass instrument and saxophone is that the sax has a reed that vibrates and a brass players sound is produced by their lips vibrating. That said a brass players dynamic range should be greater than a reed players. Things you run into as a reed player if you're playing as loud as you possibly can... your reed with actually close up on you sealing itself onto the mouthpiece tip opening when you try to push to much air through. Also the size of the facing/tip opening on the mouthpiece will limit how much air your can push though (Why virtually all jazz mouthpieces tend to play louder than your stock C*).

 

Something you will notice with brass is their tone. I am much more suited to the classical saxophone sound vs a jazz sound. Ask joe blow trumpet player to play the same volume on a longtone with a jazz tone and a classical tone (bet you money it will be virtually the same tone, bright). So in concert band, you are playing with a dark sound that blends vs a trumpet playing with a bright sound that sticks out. That by itself will give the illusion of the trumpet being louder than the sax.

 

Quick fix I would try not knowing you. If you are getting an airy sound and can't get a piano level dynamic to come out with virtually no back pressure in your mouth. Get a softer reed. That blowing your brains out comment makes me think you have to much back pressure vs how strong your embourchure is. If you are pushing as much air through as you can and the reed is sealing itself against the mouthpiece thats a sign you would want a harder reed. I would be willing to bet softer is the way to go since many reed players associate harder reeds with being a better player (because many band directors don't watch their mouths and give misinformation to reed players they teach).

 

If this post is related to experiences in a jazz band, get a jazz mouthpiece. Stock mouthpieces like a selmer C* or something like it just arnt appropriate in that environment.

Well said my friend.

[Nancy08]

Its not so much a problem on the sax, although your advice will definately help. During marching season we have too many saxes, so as a section we can put out the sound. The problem is we have alot of brass "heros" in the top band, so getting a bassoon to be heard is quite a challenge. Generally, the louder your reed, the brighter and grosser the sound. I have good dark reeds, which are great for quiet soothing passages and solos, but loud staccatisimo notes and runs...not so much.

[lionbc]

  Nancy08 said:

Its not so much a problem on the sax, although your advice will definately help.

[Nancy08]

There are some days im sure im not the only one who wants to do that...aka, the whole band.

[MartinHorn]

Luckily we don't that big of a problem during marching season with heroes, and not one at all during concert.

[barisaxy08]

i play loud...but i hate the fact that i shouldn't...

[crazyjakeup]

dont deel bad.. loud and proud bro...

[ClarinetGlissandoInBlue]

if there are such balance issues, then why the heck hasn't the director addressed them?

[Nancy08]

He has, but...yeah. Our trumpets dont like to listen, but they finally did after our horrible first concert.

[BassoonPadwan]

Being a fellow bassoon player, I've had the exact same problem. I've pretty much fixed the problem for the most part now, and my band director sometimes tells us(there's one other bassoonist) to back off a little sometimes. And the sections I'm talking about aren't really that exposed either. I think that's great problem to have. =)

 

All this advice that I'm about to give has been given' to me by great teachers not just stuff I've made up. I'm just saying that so you'll have an easier time believing stuff you here over the internet(I know I have to question some stuff I read):

What I did with my playing is everytime I practiced, I push myself to play as loud as I can(soft as possible too), not gross, but everyday pushing myself to get louder. Work on your breathing too. Take as big and as fast a breath as possible EVERY time you breath. I'm 100% sure breathing will help you out instantly. You'll definitely have pipes after a month of this.

 

Open up your mouth more. After you do this, you'll notice that your pitch will smack into the ground. You have to push the pitch back up with your air. Practice playing with that open sound and mouth at FF and pp while keeping the pitch in tune. Keep a good sound that's open even at pp.

 

Next, up is....... LONG TONES!!! Dun dun dunnnnnn!!! I know. You hate them. I used to hate them. But I have to tell you, I freakin' love them now. They have been good to me. In my opinion, bassoonists especially, need to play long tones. I went to a little master class with the bassoon professor at UT, and she could not stress them enough! I've tried them out, and I've never looked back. My playing has One-billion% improved since I've started doing them regularly. I usually try to get in a good warm-up each day of a minimum of 20 minutes, to a max of about an hour. But I'm going to be a performance major soo........ I don't know if how committed you are to this stuff....... but that's just me. I'd say out of everything really this is the number one thing I would stress. In my experience, there is a little bit of a pain period in the beginning, haha, where you absolutely DO NOT want to do them. You have to push yourself past this and do them anyway. Once you see first hand how much they are helping you, you will want to do them, to get your "bassoon sound goin".

 

And finally there's reeds. Yeah you're going to need a good reed. A good reed, should be able to play loud and soft and WHILE playing loud, it shouldn't be bright, ect. You know what I hate? Those little flimsy reeds that you can't push ANY sort of volume on and when you try, they squack!! I've had bad experiences with these, haha. So if you have one...... SMASH IT!!! j/k. A bad reed will screw you over no matter how good a player you are. So try and find a good one for you. My lessons teacher makes mine right now, and I'm in the process of learning, but I've been with her for about seven years now, and she's just starting to make them so that they are perfect, for the most part, for me. And I'm always changing a little, improving.

 

I am also going to recommend a GREATTTT bassoon Cd if you don't have it. It's Shadings by Kristin Wolfe Jensen, the bassoon professor at UT. Try to emulate her open sound and volume. Itttttssss succcchh a good Cd! ALL bassoon.

 

Hope you can take something away from this. =)

 

Always willing to help a fellow bassoonist out and hopefully save some of your time to find these things by just learning them on your own.

 

 

Any questions are welcome, and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

 

Have a good day!

[takigan]

Hook a mic up to your saxophone and strap a stereo system to your back and some portable amps to your shoulders....that should give you the power boost you need to surpass even the most powerful brass players.

[TRtrumpet]

I noticed that I'm getting pretty loud on my sax. I can play louder than our horns now... not necessarly with the best tone though, but it's cool to brag about! Lol.

[barisaxy08]

i could overpower the whole woodwind section if i wanted to...hehe

[TRtrumpet]

Eh... me too. There WEAK though.

[Nancy08]

  BassoonPadwan said:

Being a fellow bassoon player, I've had the exact same problem. I've pretty much fixed the problem for the most part now, and my band director sometimes tells us(there's one other bassoonist) to back off a little sometimes. And the sections I'm talking about aren't really that exposed either. I think that's great problem to have. =)

 

All this advice that I'm about to give has been given' to me by great teachers not just stuff I've made up. I'm just saying that so you'll have an easier time believing stuff you here over the internet(I know I have to question some stuff I read):

What I did with my playing is everytime I practiced, I push myself to play as loud as I can(soft as possible too), not gross, but everyday pushing myself to get louder. Work on your breathing too. Take as big and as fast a breath as possible EVERY time you breath. I'm 100% sure breathing will help you out instantly. You'll definitely have pipes after a month of this.

 

Open up your mouth more. After you do this, you'll notice that your pitch will smack into the ground. You have to push the pitch back up with your air. Practice playing with that open sound and mouth at FF and pp while keeping the pitch in tune. Keep a good sound that's open even at pp.

 

Next, up is....... LONG TONES!!! Dun dun dunnnnnn!!!  I know. You hate them. I used to hate them. But I have to tell you, I freakin' love them now. They have been good to me. In my opinion, bassoonists especially, need to play long tones. I went to a little master class with the bassoon professor at UT, and she could not stress them enough! I've tried them out, and I've never looked back. My playing has One-billion% improved since I've started doing them regularly. I usually try to get in a good warm-up each day of a minimum of 20 minutes, to a max of about an hour. But I'm going to be a performance major soo........ I don't know if how committed you are to this stuff....... but that's just me. I'd say out of everything really this is the number one thing I would stress. In my experience, there is a little bit of a pain period in the beginning, haha, where you absolutely DO NOT want to do them. You have to push yourself past this and do them anyway. Once you see first hand how much they are helping you, you will want to do them, to get your "bassoon sound goin".

 

And finally there's reeds. Yeah you're going to need a good reed. A good reed, should be able to play loud and soft and WHILE playing loud, it shouldn't be bright, ect. You know what I hate? Those little flimsy reeds that you can't push ANY sort of volume on and when you try, they squack!! I've had bad experiences with these, haha. So if you have one...... SMASH IT!!! j/k. A bad reed will screw you over no matter how good a player you are. So try and find a good one for you. My lessons teacher makes mine right now, and I'm in the process of learning, but I've been with her for about seven years now, and she's just starting to make them so that they are perfect, for the most part, for me. And I'm always changing a little, improving.

 

I am also going to recommend a GREATTTT bassoon Cd if you don't have it. It's Shadings by Kristin Wolfe Jensen, the bassoon professor at UT. Try to emulate her open sound and volume. Itttttssss succcchh a good Cd! ALL bassoon.

 

Hope you can take something away from this. =)

 

Always willing to help a fellow bassoonist out and hopefully save some of your time to find these things by just learning them on your own.

 

 

Any questions are welcome, and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

 

Have a good day!

Thanks so much for your advice. I'm definately majoring in music...but probably not performance. However I love to play, Im just impatient.

 

I have Shadings and it is an amazing CD. I also love their UT Bassoons Live! CD...

[Saxfreak_09]

Puh I'm a Bari player and two years ago (freshmen year) our band was somewhere in the area of like 150 -ish. Almost every rehersal the band got told they weren't loud enough because the ONLY bari sax on the field is louder than the whole group. It was rather sad, but that's not the case anymore..... :[

 

It's rather easy to blast it on my sax

[barisaxy08]

  Saxfreak_09 said:

Puh I'm a Bari player and two years ago (freshmen year) our band was somewhere in the area of like 150 -ish. Almost every rehersal the band got told they weren't loud enough because the ONLY bari sax on the field is louder than the whole group. It was rather sad, but that's not the case anymore..... :[

 

It's rather easy to blast it on my sax

i definitely feel ur pain...it sucks because you can't go past your potential but oh well...if you can't use it on the field then use it to annoy people i guess.

[BassoonPadwan]

  Nancy08 said:

Thanks so much for your advice.  I'm definately majoring in music...but probably not performance.  However I love to play, Im just impatient.

 

I have Shadings and it is an amazing CD.  I also love their UT Bassoons Live! CD...

No problem! Yeah I get impatient sometimes too.

I don't know if it's just me being lazy, but do you ever not want to play because you just don't feel like getting the bassoon out, putting it together, getting water and then soaking the reed? lol That's a problem I've been having that I need to get over. When I start playing I can go forever though. Just something you have to push through I guess.