Woodwinds in DCI?

[bluebellbrass07]

  lhsfluter said:

Here I'll remind you...

 

 

 

I'll sell it to Yamaha and make millions. And then all you who doubted me will want to be my friend. But I never forget! haha :]

 

Isn't that called a recorder

[treblemaker]

  bluebellbrass07 said:

Isn't that called a recorder

 

No! Because it's made out of silver which is brass. Don't insult me. Haha.

[bluebellbrass07]

  lhsfluter said:

No! Because it's made out of silver which is brass. Don't insult me. Haha.

 

Haha, I know. I'm just giving you a hard time. Don't get me wrong, I love woodwinds! I'm actually in the middle of writing a woodwind quintet, believe it or not. I just don't think they belong on the drum corps stage. For me its kind of one of those "if its not broken dont fix it" situations. Drum corps has survived so long with just brass instruments, and its been very entertaining for however many decades its been around. Add in a whole bunch of synth leads, bass guitars covering for a weak tuba section, and woodwinds and I think it will cease to be the activity that I fell in love with. Why cant you just be happy with your four years of high school marching band and then stay put in a concert hall!

[treblemaker]

Because I always get in trouble during concert season. Something about sitting in a chair for an hour and a half every day just gets to me. There's no challenge then I get bored and that leads to the problems. Haha. I want to play and move. Feel the intensity of being on that field. I also want to be around people who actually WANT to be there. Not just because they need a PE credit. You see what I'm getting at?

[whitewing09]

Lol wow some people seem more stubborn than you

[bluebellbrass07]

  lhsfluter said:

Because I always get in trouble during concert season. Something about sitting in a chair for an hour and a half every day just gets to me. There's no challenge then I get bored and that leads to the problems. Haha. I want to play and move. Feel the intensity of being on that field. I also want to be around people who actually WANT to be there. Not just because they need a PE credit. You see what I'm getting at?

 

I understand exactly what your getting at, which is why I further encourage you to learn a brass instrument

 

One of our (Blue Stars) baritones this year actually competed in the DCI I and E competition on clarinet and got 2nd. You could always pick up a baritone, learn it well enough to make a finalists corps, and then show off your woodwind talents in the I and E contest. That way its not a total loss for woodwinds

[treblemaker]

  bluebellbrass07 said:

I understand exactly what your getting at, which is why I further encourage you to learn a brass instrument

 

One of our (Blue Stars) baritones this year actually competed in the DCI I and E competition on clarinet and got 2nd. You could always pick up a baritone, learn it well enough to make a finalists corps, and then show off your woodwind talents in the I and E contest. That way its not a total loss for woodwinds

 

But that brings up the fact that learning a brass instrument 1. takes a lot of time and 2. it makes my flute skills suffer. I just don't see why we can't be treated as equals. Other than what brass instruments are designed to do what makes them any better than woodwinds? Haha. Would you like a prize for being able to play loud?

 

PS. I don't think it's possible for anyone to be more stubborn than me.

Edited August 20, 2008 by lhsfluter

[takigan]

Like I've said before.....learning a brass instrument won't make your Flute skills digress. In fact I imagine that with about 1-2 years of consistent disciplined study of a brass instrument, your skill on that instrument would be as high, if not higher than your skill on Flute and you would not have lost any skill on your native instrument. I knew a girl who played Flute until the end of her sophomore year of High School. She made region on Flute as a sophomore. She switched to euphonium because her school needed Euphoniums. She hammered on that Euphonium for 2-3 hours a day all summer, came back in the Fall and made the 5A All-State band the following January on Euphonium. She tried out for Revolution that same year (though late in the year when they already had their roster set). They didn't need any more Euphoniums but they needed Contras. She learned Tuba in a couple of weeks (not that difficult.....they're very similar instruments) and made the Contra line for that summer. She stayed on Tuba for her senior year and made Area and continues to play Tuba to this day. People with this kind of rare Flute/Tuba proficiency are known as 'Fluba' players . No joke.....

 

I performed in a Tuba quartet with her for Washington on the Brazos in Brenham (2 Tubas, 2 Euphoniums). We did an arrangement of Stars and Stripes Forever in which for the ending stanza (the Piccolo solo at the end of the piece....which for this arrangement is supposed to be played by the 1st Euphonium) she set down her Tuba and picked up the piccolo she had hidden on her stand and played the piccolo solo off of the 1st Euphonium part while I (the 1st Euphonium) read off her Tuba part playing down in that octave (just to cover the part). You should know as well as I do that that's not an easy Piccolo solo (not to mention this girl didn't regularly play Pic back when she was on Flute) and to jump right into it after playing TUBA for the entirety of the song....it's not as detrimental to your Flute/Pic chops as you might think. It's really no less detrimental to your Flute playing than deciding to learn Piano, or Colorguard, or learn a new Foreign Language, or taking up choir......it's more about time management really.

[Xenon]

Flubas really aren't as uncommon as people might think. I actually knew two different flubas (not at my school) back in my highschool days and they were among the best tubas. The key is as Takigan has stated before that the flute has an immense airstream requirement.

[bluebellbrass07]

  lhsfluter said:

But that brings up the fact that learning a brass instrument 1. takes a lot of time and 2. it makes my flute skills suffer. I just don't see why we can't be treated as equals. Other than what brass instruments are designed to do what makes them any better than woodwinds? Haha. Would you like a prize for being able to play loud?

 

PS. I don't think it's possible for anyone to be more stubborn than me.

 

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to be helpful! There were three woodwind players in our corps last year, all of who brought there woodwinds on tour and all of who practiced regularly on the bus after shows and whatnot. And they also all sounded fantastic. As a skilled musician already, it really shouldn't take more than two months of practice to have enough skill to show up at an audition camp and be at least somewhat successful. The only reason I keep suggesting this is because you seem like somebody that would enjoy it, and for me it has been such a wonderful experience for the past two years. So stop complaining about not being to march with a woodwind and learn a brass instrument!

 

And theres always the possibility of playing a keyboard in the pit somewhere, since electronics are now legal. Not sure if youd be up for that though

[treblemaker]

Well my band director threatened to take away my mouth piece if my flute skills started to digress. So at least I'm trying guys. haha.

[whitewing09]

hahaha very nice, we almost had a Fluba this year. We were short on tubas (right now only marching 5) and this flute guy wanted to play tuba, however his mom was being weird saying that he already knows how to play flute and just to stick to that.

[takigan]

Aww, let the little fairy boy play Tuba......haha, jk (nothing against male Flute players, there's actually something kind of artistically unique about a really talented male Flute player.....sort of like male ballerinas, but this is already starting to sound really **** so I'll just stop there <_ but i just disagree with the mom opinion for many a reason.>

 

 

  lhsfluter said:

Well my band director threatened to take away my mouth piece if my flute skills started to digress. So at least I'm trying guys. haha.

 

I hate band directors like that. If you were in band in the midwest, you wouldn't have to feel threatened in this kind of situation. Up north it's not so much about band as it is a music class where you learn to play an instrument. They're not as concerned with competition and making their program look good in front of their peers so there's so much more freedom. You actually get to learn "music" and not just "Some pieces to hammer away at everyday for UIL". Texas musicians have the reputation of sounding very professional at an early age compared to most other states, but are often one-trick ponies with no sense of fundamentals or understanding about the instrument or the music they play. Most band directors are more concerned with their program doing very well than the individual musical ambitions of their students that are apart of it. They care about both, but it's always a conflict of interests that every band director must struggle with.

[treyj]

  takigan said:

I hate band directors like that. If you were in band in the midwest, you wouldn't have to feel threatened in this kind of situation. Up north it's not so much about band as it is a music class where you learn to play an instrument. They're not as concerned with competition and making their program look good in front of their peers so there's so much more freedom. You actually get to learn "music" and not just "Some pieces to hammer away at everyday for UIL". Texas musicians have the reputation of sounding very professional at an early age compared to most other states, but are often one-trick ponies with no sense of fundamentals or understanding about the instrument or the music they play. Most band directors are more concerned with their program doing very well than the individual musical ambitions of their students that are apart of it. They care about both, but it's always a conflict of interests that every band director must struggle with.

 

 

I definitely disagree with that.

[takigan]

That's fine. It doesn't change the fact that it's true.

 

Care to share some of your own insight that comes from personal experience that would help back your opinion?

Edited August 20, 2008 by takigan

[bluebellbrass07]

  treyj said:

I definitely disagree with that.

 

with what part of it? he made quite a few points in there, most of which I would also say are pretty true

[treblemaker]

  takigan said:

I hate band directors like that. If you were in band in the midwest, you wouldn't have to feel threatened in this kind of situation. Up north it's not so much about band as it is a music class where you learn to play an instrument. They're not as concerned with competition and making their program look good in front of their peers so there's so much more freedom. You actually get to learn "music" and not just "Some pieces to hammer away at everyday for UIL". Texas musicians have the reputation of sounding very professional at an early age compared to most other states, but are often one-trick ponies with no sense of fundamentals or understanding about the instrument or the music they play. Most band directors are more concerned with their program doing very well than the individual musical ambitions of their students that are apart of it. They care about both, but it's always a conflict of interests that every band director must struggle with.

 

Yeah well at least she is letting me do it. My head band director doesn't know why I want to at all. He even had the ba**s to ask me what was more important making it to state or marching DCI. I was like UHHHHH. Why can't I do both? Things like that just make me want to try harder to prove them wrong. Why should I limit myself?

[bluebellbrass07]

  lhsfluter said:

Yeah well at least she is letting me do it. My head band director doesn't know why I want to at all. He even had the ba**s to ask me what was more important making it to state or marching DCI. I was like UHHHHH. Why can't I do both? Things like that just make me want to try harder to prove them wrong. Why should I limit myself?

 

I wish more people in high school had that type of attitude.

[treblemaker]

Eh. I'm a special case. I wont get into it but I'm just special when it comes to band.

[whitewing09]

I've always wanted to learn how to play Oboe or Bassoon lol

[treyj]

  takigan said:

Texas musicians have the reputation of sounding very professional at an early age compared to most other states, but are often one-trick ponies with no sense of fundamentals or understanding about the instrument or the music they play. Most band directors are more concerned with their program doing very well than the individual musical ambitions of their students that are apart of it. They care about both, but it's always a conflict of interests that every band director must struggle with.

 

I agree that we care about competitions and winning but who doesn't?

It is called band for a reason.

 

band - A group of people acting together in a shared activity.

 

If your more interested in individual aspects of musical performance you shouldn't be in band. Sure it will help you as an individual performer but band isn't meant for that.

 

It is a group of people together trying to obtain common goals and yes UIL and other competitions fall into those categories.

 

I see no problem in a director threatening someone with taking away their mouthpiece if their own principle instrument skills started to digress. That is a band directors job to make sure the band sounds a perfect as they can possibly be, he shouldn't have to worry about his members getting worse by trying to do something else. He is getting paid to teach the BAND not an individual.

 

As for Texas musicians sounding more professional earlier I'm not sure about that, I just think Texas schools focus more on music at an early age and usually have plenty of funding for music education. As for one-trick ponies I don't see any fact in that. If you have no sense of fundamentals or the understanding of your instrument you are not going to sound professional at all and winning definitely wouldn't be a priority because you would have zero chance at winning and would sound horrible.

[whitewing09]

I still wanna play bassoon...

[treblemaker]

You can't march those period so stay on topic Zachary..

[whitewing09]

MAYBE I WANNA BE AN AWESOME SOLOIST WHO COMES FROM MY TUBA TO THE FRONT TO PLAY SOME BAD A RUNS! lol jk guys

[takigan]

  treyj said:

I agree that we care about competitions and winning but who doesn't?

It is called band for a reason.

 

This is a philosophy that's held by the vast majority of Texas band programs along with a tiny group of band "strongholds" (look at the BOA Grand Nationals roster for some good examples) that are scattered all over the nation outside of Texas (called a 'stronghold' because the band program either had a phenomenal team of lobbyists for the school board or a strong enough booster program to be able to "salvage the ship" while other neighboring programs went under as the money that was keeping them afloat got sucked away by community activists who figured Music Education was no longer "necessary" for their district).

 

  Quote

If your more interested in individual aspects of musical performance you shouldn't be in band. Sure it will help you as an individual performer but band isn't meant for that.

 

This is an opinion and by no means a universal argument. [school] Band wasn't created strictly to create a group mentality for kids. Schools keep their music programs around because they want their kids to learn MUSIC (in every sense of the word) because they've accepted the reality that learning music stimulates the mind in such ways that allow them to perform better in academic subjects. Concepts like "One band One Sound" mean nothing to a school board. The only reason I believe the schools group kids in "band" or "choir" classes is for the same reason people buy in bulk at Sam's Club. It's more cost effective than hiring a dozen teachers to teach the kids in groups that better conform to the school's student:teacher ratio. Better put them all in one room and stick 1 teacher in front of them and save money. Texas is privileged to have staffs at some schools with as many as 5 or 6 band directors. Up north it's typical for a school to have 1 "music teacher" on campus that is expected to do everything from choir to band to whatever else they actually have the energy to put together by themselves. And many more schools don't even have that. You need to realize the way band is viewed in Texas is very different from a lot of the rest of the country.

 

  Quote

I see no problem in a director threatening someone with taking away their mouthpiece if their own principle instrument skills started to digress. That is a band directors job to make sure the band sounds a perfect as they can possibly be, he shouldn't have to worry about his members getting worse by trying to do something else. He is getting paid to teach the BAND not an individual.

 

A student does not have a duty to the school's band program. A band program has a duty to instruct that student and help them in their pursuit to become the best musicians they can be, regardless of interest. And a band director sure as he11 doesn't have the right to prevent a student from pursuing their own interests in learning music simply because it's detrimental to the sound of their ensemble. As far as usage of equipment goes, the band director is justified in seeing that the school's equipment is used to the best benefit of the band, but if a student was so dedicated that they went out and bought their own equipment to use, the school should do the best they can to accommodate the student's personal interest in musical pursuits. If the band director still refused and I was this student in question I could easily make a case to the school board that would require the director to allow me the instrument switch or risk losing his job. According to your logic, the band director has every right to prevent you from dropping band and joining choir because the loss of your person in band would be detrimental to the band's sound. Students learning music in the way that is best for them is more important than having a school band that sounds good. Any member of the community outside of band could vouche for this.

 

  Quote

As for Texas musicians sounding more professional earlier I'm not sure about that, I just think Texas schools focus more on music at an early age and usually have plenty of funding for music education.

 

Where are you getting this information? (Texas institutions starting their students earlier I mean). Nothing in my experience even suggests this to be true. But yes, this difference in ability is due to Texas and their interest in funding full staffs of specialized teachers to instruct kids music in public schools.

 

  Quote

As for one-trick ponies I don't see any fact in that. If you have no sense of fundamentals or the understanding of your instrument you are not going to sound professional at all and winning definitely wouldn't be a priority because you would have zero chance at winning and would sound horrible.

 

Are you familiar with the harmonic series? How about overtone series' and how they relate to equal versus well temperament? Even your average Texas All-State musician couldn't even define these terms, much less explain them to you. You're more likely to find a much less skilled musician up north who can explain these basic things to you in detail because the kids up there spend just as much time in front of a chalkboard as they do in front of a stand learning music. Most Texas HS musicians graduate high school without ever learning their minor scales on their instrument (myself included.....and I was first chair Euphonium all 4 years of HS). In a well established northern music program this is practically an atrocity.

 

My Conducting teacher (former conductor of the United States Air Force Band) told me about a Flute player who once won a position in the AF band simply because she practiced the audition repertoire for hundreds of hours on end. She had a stellar audition and won the position, but the band later found out she really couldn't play much else and they had to fire her.