The Future of High School Marching Band

[Nvisible1409]

With the recent knowledge of LD Bell's show design and the cost of their fall marching season, I just wanted to see what the future of marching band will be about... so here's my opinion and i am asking for your opinion and thoughts. I

[Xenon]

  Nvisible1409 said:

If you look at ld bells event schedule on their show website, www.ldbellthequest.org, you can see that they plan to attend 19 events, with the possibility of even more performances.

 

First, they have 21 dates listed, not 19.

 

Second, Most of those are football games (9). And they also listed their March-A-Thon fundraiser and Homecoming parade.

 

They are even skipping BOA Arlington. The following are their scheduled competitions (about the same number as any band that does GN in a state year):

 

BOA Houston

HEB Marching Contest (Exhibition)

UIL Region

UIL Area

BOA San Antonio

UIL State

BOA Grand Nationals

[Nvisible1409]

  Xenon said:

First, they have 21 dates listed, not 19.

 

Second, Most of those are football games (9). And they also listed their March-A-Thon fundraiser and Homecoming parade.

 

They are even skipping BOA Arlington. The following are their scheduled competitions (about the same number as any band that does GN in a state year):

 

BOA Houston

HEB Marching Contest (Exhibition)

UIL Region

UIL Area

BOA San Antonio

UIL State

BOA Grand Nationals

 

oops. my mistake

hopefully it won't distract readers from what i'm trying to show them

Edited August 30, 2008 by Nvisible1409

[crazyjakeup]

unless they move the football season from the fall to the summer, the uil will never have the state contest in august... this is texas, and as much as some of us dont like to admit it, marching band (the way we know it) cannot exist without football... so the future is still in the fall...

[takigan]

I like this thread.

 

Personally, I feel like the future holds many things for the activity. For starters I feel like Bands of America will either phase out UIL or UIL will reform its contest to keep from being phased out by BOA. I don't see this happening any time in the near future but the organization is growing very rapidly and for many bands I feel like they only compete in UIL because they're expected to. Bands will eventually begin to challenge this and all it'll take is a small group of these rouge bands (Westfield is a good example) to swing the trend. But regardless, I don't necessarily feel like UIL will be 'phased out' per say....small schools will never be able to afford BOA, and it's just not lucrative for the many schools that cling to the traditional military style to abandon UIL.

 

But I could see the reformed UIL phasing out the military style from their competition (not actively refusing them, but making it pointless for them to compete in different contest standards) and the emigrating bands finding their own niche in the military style contests that are out there. BOA is already phasing out 5A patronage at a lot of inivitational marching contests (the Buccaneer marching festival at Blinn College hardly gets any 5A bands anymore because they're all doing BOA). I believe BOA's increased influence over Texas is the reason our bands are reforming their programs. We're absorbing a lot of the art and pageantry concepts of the Midwest (which are the way they are because it's where BOA's influence is the strongest).....and BOA pretty much has the monopoly on marching contests in that neck of the woods.

 

I definitely feel like marching bands these days, although flashier and more entertaining; don't look or sound as clean and uniform, and I also wonder how far you can push the concept of a show before you run out of ideas.

[whitewing09]

I can't really agree with that, BOA is more talked about which would make it seem as if it's running this neck of woods. However, you have to consider the bands which aren't widely talked about, I still think that UIL is bigger then people talk about it as. The majority of Texas bands do UIL but not BOA. I think the only bands which are very well known do well in both UIL and BOA

[b_sax_agent]

UIL will always be there. Unless the Government thinks it isn't necesary.

 

As for the future of marching bnad; It constantly evolves. Great shows now will be thought as simple 10 years from now.

 

However, I don't believe marching band relies on football.

 

There is still the military, which started the whole concept of Marching band.

[Montoya]

I'm going to throw out a completely unjustified statistic. It is in no way accurate, but perhaps will make my point.

 

I would argue that of ALL the marching bands out there, only about 10% actually compete at the BOA/National level. The rest actually just do "fun" marching band shows, get their "I," and/or don't care about competing until almost Thanksgiving.

 

It would be interesting if someone would count all the marching bands in TX (1a-5a) and see the percentage that compete at the National/BOA/Super-Competitive level.

 

I imagine the numbers will astound all those "BOA will destroy UIL" crowd and show just how "small" super-competitive marching band really is.

[marcomac29]

  Montoya said:

I'm going to throw out a completely unjustified statistic. It is in no way accurate, but perhaps will make my point.

 

I would argue that of ALL the marching bands out there, only about 10% actually compete at the BOA/National level. The rest actually just do "fun" marching band shows, get their "I," and/or don't care about competing until almost Thanksgiving.

 

It would be interesting if someone would count all the marching bands in TX (1a-5a) and see the percentage that compete at the National/BOA/Super-Competitive level.

 

I imagine the numbers will astound all those "BOA will destroy UIL" crowd and show just how "small" super-competitive marching band really is.

 

 

very true...

 

 

not to mention the fact that UIL is also for sports... So if BOA bought them, then that would mean that instead of winning the UIL state football/basketball/anything trophy... you would win the BOA state trophy..... and i doubt that's gonna' happen.

[Xenon]

  marcomac29 said:

very true...

 

 

not to mention the fact that UIL is also for sports... So if BOA bought them, then that would mean that instead of winning the UIL state football/basketball/anything trophy... you would win the BOA state trophy..... and i doubt that's gonna' happen.

 

You can't buy a government organization, but yes.

 

UIL marching contests will not be going away anytime in the near-medium future. Less than half of all 5A schools attend any BOA competition at all and next to no 1A-4A schools attend; but almost every single school (1A-5A) attends UIL marching contests.

[treyj]

  takigan said:

I like this thread.

 

Personally, I feel like the future holds many things for the activity. For starters I feel like Bands of America will either phase out UIL or UIL will reform its contest to keep from being phased out by BOA. I don't see this happening any time in the near future but the organization is growing very rapidly and for many bands I feel like they only compete in UIL because they're expected to. Bands will eventually begin to challenge this and all it'll take is a small group of these rouge bands (Westfield is a good example) to swing the trend. But regardless, I don't necessarily feel like UIL will be 'phased out' per say....small schools will never be able to afford BOA, and it's just not lucrative for the many schools that cling to the traditional military style to abandon UIL.

 

But I could see the reformed UIL phasing out the military style from their competition (not actively refusing them, but making it pointless for them to compete in different contest standards) and the emigrating bands finding their own niche in the military style contests that are out there. BOA is already phasing out 5A patronage at a lot of inivitational marching contests (the Buccaneer marching festival at Blinn College hardly gets any 5A bands anymore because they're all doing BOA). I believe BOA's increased influence over Texas is the reason our bands are reforming their programs. We're absorbing a lot of the art and pageantry concepts of the Midwest (which are the way they are because it's where BOA's influence is the strongest).....and BOA pretty much has the monopoly on marching contests in that neck of the woods.

 

I definitely feel like marching bands these days, although flashier and more entertaining; don't look or sound as clean and uniform, and I also wonder how far you can push the concept of a show before you run out of ideas.

 

 

A government organization is not going to be phased out by BOA.

[Band_Person]

  treyj said:

A government organization is not going to be phased out by BOA.

 

UIL is not a government organization.

It is a "voluntary-membership, non-profit organization" founded in 1909.

 

http://www.uil.utexas.edu/about.html

[takigan]

BOA will not phase out the organization known as UIL.......ever.

 

And no, I'm not contradicting myself.

[whitewing09]

yes you are. jk

 

lol I just think that it's dumb that people think that BOA > UIL because it's not always true

[Skippy]

Also, I doubt that BOA will ever have much effect at all on how UIL runs their contests.

 

The people that decide the rules for UIL value different things than what BOA values. i.e. UIL doesn't put nearly as much of an emphasis on show design, and for good reasons. Schools shouldn't be expected to pour money into performing state-of-the-art shows, although they can if they want to, it's about the musical education a student is receiving.

[takigan]

People can change though....who runs the band portion of UIL? Band directors. The same band directors who are reforming their programs to fit the BOA standard.

 

Even such a traditional organization as DCI evolved from a strict military tradition into a modern art form. From G Bugles and on-field drum majors into Flash, pizazz and electronics.

 

I don't think any of us can picture it happening anytime soon, but BOA is still expanding. In '85 Texas had 1 Regional, in 95 they gained another one and in 2001 the number of Texas Regionals was bumped up to 3. Lately they've been trying to add a 4th...this has been caused by more schools taking an interest in the competition.

 

Here's a possible scenario. BOA eventually gains 7 or 8 (or more) regionals in Texas sometime in the next few decades. With enough schools presenting interest (say 70-80% of the 4A and 5A schools, not so many that are 3A and smaller), and the crowds provided by all of these schools big enough to justify the decision; several of (though not all....the newer venues would still be at College Stadiums and the like) the Regionals are held in "dome" style venues. With that many regionals in such incredible venues and enough influence, what if they dared schedule a Regional on the same day as a UIL competition. With that many Regionals having to be scheduled within the 6-8 week competition bubble, it's possible. Schools would have to make a choice.

 

Obviously in today's world, 99.99% of schools would opt out for UIL, seeing BOA as just something that's really great, but not much more important than DMI, or Westlake, or SHSU, or TOC...and therefore expendable. Well actually.....on second thought, I could see a few schools crossing over.....I mean look at Westfield, they did it out of their own free will, they didn't even need a schedule conflict to push them. What about the schools that do as many BOA events as they can? I imagine they would be much easier persuaded to relinquish the UIL tradition than most....and that's just in today's world.

 

My idea of the UIL marching competition being "phased out" might be a little extreme. But I see it a possibility that more of the larger schools will start to follow Westfield's lead, frusturated with UIL's rules and judging system, driven by their newfound interest in the pageantry and marching as an art form that is continuing to envelop them year after year.

 

BOA holds a monopoly over competitions in many states....it was easy for them to gain that hold as well, much akin to an HEB Plus or Wal-Mart supercenter moving into a podunk hick town in the middle of nowhere and taking over. Not so in Texas, because we already have a strong marching tradition in place. Most of the people in this thread don't feel like that will ever change.....I on the other hand just think it's just a matter of time......a lot of time mind you (Texas' music program conglomerate' is quite massive), but it'll chip away eventually as the organization continues to expand.

Edited September 2, 2008 by takigan

[longhornsax]

Here's what I'm thinking...Merger!!!

 

but seriously, both of these competitions will coexist until one of them decide to adopt the policies that bands find appealing in the other. Bands enjoy the UIL format because it gives small bands a chance. It divides schools up based on size, but actually gives the smaller bands a spotlight competition (as opposed to the afterthought of A, and AA in BOA). I think a lot of bands, or at least i enjoy the different levels of competition UIL has, and the advancement from region to area and area to state. It allows bands to make goals such as "we want to at least advance to area" or "we want to make finals at area" as opposed to BOA where the only goal seems to be finals or nothing...

 

BOA features a larger scale competition, with the focus on wowing the crowd and GE. The reason behind the success of BOA is it's encouragement of creativity.

 

So unless UIL adds focus to GE or BOA adds a UIL like region/area/state system, I don't think you'll see either of these competitions be edged out anytime soon...but seriously...merger?!

[TRtrumpet]

I'd never even heard of BOA 'till I joined Texas bands. From what it seems like it's a big school thing. UIL will never be phased out though... cause pretty much every band in Texas does it. Even if they're only expected too. We almost didn't do it one year and my director almost got fired.

[crazyjakeup]

side note:

 

  crazyjakeup said:

unless they move the football season from the fall to the summer, the uil will never have the state contest in august... this is texas, and as much as some of us dont like to admit it, marching band (the way we know it) cannot exist without football... so the future is still in the fall...

 

 

  b_sax_agent said:

However, I don't believe marching band relies on football.

 

There is still the military, which started the whole concept of Marching band.

 

military did indeed start the marching band movement, but the marching that we have all came to love needed football to develop... and yes it could have used soccer(if it was as popular) but football feilds are perfect because of the grid-like field. (try marching w/o yardlines.lol...)...

 

...

Edited September 2, 2008 by crazyjakeup

[TX Suh-nare]

One thing you have to realize too, this all is for corps style marching.

 

What about military bands? They can compete on UIL standards, but not well under BOA.

 

And BOA in summertime? What about high schoolers wanting to march drum corps? DCI needs BOA to create prospects, (next time you get a chance, look at how many people in member groups on Facebook come from BOA bands) and if BOA's and DCI's schedules collide (like WGI and DCI do in the spring), you'll lose a good amount of recruiting talent because Billy-Bob-Band-Director will think that corps is taking away from the students' first commitment, his band.

 

Also, with schedule collisions, you won't have as many people who appreciate both. Especially in the drumming community, there is a rif between DCI lovers and WGI lovers. I swear my allegiance to my corps until my dying breath, and I can tell you there are a lot of WGI guys that are almost as fanatical about their indoor line as I am w/ my corps. Some DCI lines are known for their activeness in WGI (aka, the fact RCC is a BD training ground), but more often than not, it's the other way around. It's either DCI or WGI.

[Skippy]

  TX Suh-nare said:

And BOA in summertime? What about high schoolers wanting to march drum corps? DCI needs BOA to create prospects, (next time you get a chance, look at how many people in member groups on Facebook come from BOA bands) and if BOA's and DCI's schedules collide (like WGI and DCI do in the spring), you'll lose a good amount of recruiting talent because Billy-Bob-Band-Director will think that corps is taking away from the students' first commitment, his band.

 

I think DCI is more dependent on BOA for creating a consistent fanbase, rather than making actual marching members. You'd be surprised at how many members of The Cavaliers come from podunk schools in the middle of nowhere where their band was never any good. A lot more than those people that come from BOA competing bands (although there are some). Also, most of the members of the top corps are college-aged anyways, and conflicting schedules wouldn't be much of a problem.

[bonepit06-07]

not to put down any thought that went into all this but i think that marching band during the summer wouldnt be a good idea cause then it would take all the focus off of wats inmportant which is obviously DCI there are students in high school (although few ppl do) to participate and moving the marching season to the summer would not allow those students to achieve there dreams in marching with a drum corps because of there marching season back in high school,

Second, i agree with most ppl about UIL not being faded out by BOA i still think they are both interesting in there own ways,

BOA is that fun "almost DCI" contest its about the entertainment to me and not neccessarily about the marching and how well you stay in forms and watnot... in UIL its about that whole form marching and how you play musically, but it also makes it interesting because it opens up the competition for alot of bands and "upsets" can happen think about it like this... UIL is like our college football in that ANYTHING can happen a school can beat you at area but when you get to state that school might not even get to finals... its an open competition and anybody can beat anybody on any givin day. as for LD Bell thats beast 21 performances in a season darn lol

[Danpod]

Let me lay this down real quick. By the way, this is a solid topic.

 

The question of which marching philosophy will eventually conform to the other, BOA or UIL, is a timeless query. It seems like real question is when UIL will finally break its "Good Ol' Boys" persona and adapt to a more artistic marching philosophy. Here's the answer: It never will and I don't really mind that at all.

 

Why? Think about it in terms of soft drinks. You have Coke and Pepsi. Some prefer Coke. Some prefer Pepsi. Both brands will have their loyal drinkers and although one brand may seem to be more popular than the other, neither the Coca-Cola Company or PepsiCo will be going out of business any time soon. UIL doesn't really need to reform because programs keep showing up to the events. Remember, it is not mandatory to compete in UIL-Sanctioned events.

 

The only major program to "defect" from UIL was Westfield in 2003, the same year they went to Grand Nationals. In essence, it was a landmark move in the Marching Arts. Many people, including myself, predicted at the beginning of the 2003 season that a National Championship for Westfield would bring UIL to its knees. One of the most controversial mandates of UIL is the Eight Hour Rule and for the first time, the State of Texas sent a program to Grand Nationals that did not have to abide by it, although many people say that Westfield rarely practiced more than eight hours a week that year.

 

The National Title was supposed to be the one event that would finally get UIL to change their tune. It didn't because programs are still very loyal to the system. There are probably more advocates of the UIL system than there are opponents of it. As long as programs continue to show up to BOA and UIL events, the future of the Marching Arts will be the same as it is now, except for the possibility of flashing lights and newly-amped instruments. Remember, amp your udu.

[Nvisible1409]

  bonepit06-07 said:

not to put down any thought that went into all this but i think that marching band during the summer wouldnt be a good idea cause then it would take all the focus off of wats inmportant which is obviously DCI there are students in high school (although few ppl do) to participate and moving the marching season to the summer would not allow those students to achieve there dreams in marching with a drum corps because of there marching season back in high school,

Second, i agree with most ppl about UIL not being faded out by BOA i still think they are both interesting in there own ways,

BOA is that fun "almost DCI" contest its about the entertainment to me and not neccessarily about the marching and how well you stay in forms and watnot... in UIL its about that whole form marching and how you play musically, but it also makes it interesting because it opens up the competition for alot of bands and "upsets" can happen think about it like this... UIL is like our college football in that ANYTHING can happen a school can beat you at area but when you get to state that school might not even get to finals... its an open competition and anybody can beat anybody on any givin day. as for LD Bell thats beast 21 performances in a season darn lol

 

well, like i said before, move high school marching band to the summer so that high school students don't have t struggle after time is taken away from schoolwork. but what i failed to recognize was the conflict in schedule with all the high school dci participants( sorry guys). now, i still think its a good idea to move high school marching to the summer, because bands would have the ability to put way more time into their show. the more time you spend rehearsing your show, the more competitive you can be at competition. and drum corps. is the perfect example. forgive me if im wrong, i've never heard of an 8 hour rule in DCI. thats why high school marchng should be in the summer

 

as for UIL, i never want it to be phased out, however in the future it would be nice to see UIL give bands more than 8 hours a week to practice their show, and more than 8 minutes to perform their show. this would really give every band the freedom to be as competitive as they want

Edited September 4, 2008 by Nvisible1409

[Liquid Midget]

  Nvisible1409 said:

well, like i said before, move high school marching band to the summer so that high school students don't have t struggle after time is taken away from schoolwork. but what i failed to recognize was the conflict in schedule with all the high school dci participants( sorry guys). now, i still think its a good idea to move high school marching to the summer, because bands would have the ability to put way more time into their show. the more time you spend rehearsing your show, the more competitive you can be at competition. and drum corps. is the perfect example. forgive me if im wrong, i've never heard of an 8 hour rule in DCI. thats why high school marchng should be in the summer

 

as for UIL, i never want it to be phased out, however in the future it would be nice to see UIL give bands more than 8 hours a week to practice their show, and more than 8 minutes to perform their show. this would really give every band the freedom to be as competitive as they want

 

i totally agree with having more time to practice and more show time. there have been so many instances that a band has to cut really cool moments out of their show. it would also be nice to have more practice time to work out those trouble areas that we never seem to get because there just isnt enough time to clean it. i also think uil should take color guard and percussion into consideration when judging. you would see some pretty drastic changes in the top bands of the state as far as uil is concerned.