Danpod Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 DCI Rule Proposals Only two new rule proposals are up for vote this weekend at DCI's Winter Meetings. Nevertheless, they should be worth discussing. A lot of information about the upcoming 2009 programs usually leaks out at these meetings so be on the lookout for the juicy tidbits. Rule Proposal #1: Overall Effect Judges (Submitted by George Hopkins) Essentially, Mr. Hopkins wants to get rid of the Visual and Musical General Effect categories and replace them with two Overall Effect categories. These two new categories would not have a particular caption focus. You judge the overall effect of the show. Period. The argument here is that show designs nowadays rely heavily on weaving visual and musical concepts together. Inevitably, you can't judge visual effect without relating to musical effect and vice versa. Personally, I think this rule makes General Effect just a little too general. The language in this proposal is much too vague. My fear is that if adopted, the Overall Effect category could produce a little slice of UIL from the DCPie (DCI Pie). I don't think this rule will pass. Rule Proposal #2: DCI Judging Systems (Submitted by George Oliviero) This proposal asks that DCI adopt three differently sized judging panels. These three panels would give DCI a new flexibility in assigning panels to shows during the season. Also, this proposals calls for the elimination of the second Percussion judge which was used at select DCI events. Five Judge Panel - GE Visual, GE Music, Ensemble Visual, Ensemble Music, and Percussion. Eight Judge Panel - GE Visual, GE Music, Ensemble Music, Ensemble Visual, Color Guard, Percussion, Visual Performance, and Brass Performance. Ten Judge Panel - Double GE Visual, Double GE Music, Music and Visual Ensemble, Color Guard, Percussion, Brass Performance, and Visual Performance. Early shows that have minimal corps performances may use the five judge panel. Premier DCI shows, such as the World Championships or the DCI Southwestern Championships, will probably use the ten judge panel. DCI needs to cut costs any way they can and I think this is a great way to do it. I'd probably vote for the proposal based on the elimination of the Percussion Two judge alone! Quote
xbones7480 Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) I think they should judge Front Ensemble separately from percussion and they should also judge the new electronics in that category too. And if a corps chooses to have vocals, they should also be judged separately they might already do this though.. not sure Edited January 23, 2009 by xbones7480 Quote
bluebellbrass07 Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 I don't think you can put electronics or vocals in their own category since not every corps chooses to use them. I'd put them in the pit category I suppose if I had to Quote
TX Suh-nare Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 I doubt it would be a good idea to judge the electronics separately. What about the corps that can create the effects w/o electronics? Part of the percussive brilliance of '06 Cavies was that all the machine sounds were acoustic in nature (most amplified, but none were digitally created). If you add a new caption for synths, than almost all corps will now need them to be competitive. Plus, it goes back to my arguement about woodwinds in DCI. Judges need pay checks. Pay checks = $$$. I think one reason the 2 perc. judges are now scratched is partly a cost-cutting measure. Which I'm all for. From the rumors about DCI's financial struggles, it'll be good to cut some extra fat, both in bodies on the field, and also...well, let's face it: anyone who's marched before has seen what some of those greenshirts are like. Quote
ftwdrummer Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Does the proposal for panels make any indication as to whether perc. will be in the box or on the field? As I recall, last year's five-judge panels had perc. in the box...and when you're an on-the-field percussion judge, usually (from my observation) your focus is on the battery, with pit seemingly becoming an afterthought. Re: Hopkin's proposal: any possibility to modify it to add a judge for overall GE? I know it pretty much counterbalances the premise of the modified panels, but it might be a nice compromise (if affordable). Also, you could use this fellow on the 5-judge panels instead of Vis. GE and Mus. GE for those (add a judge for guard to correlate with the judge added for percussion). Quote
Skippy Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Danpod said: DCI Rule Proposals Rule Proposal #1: Overall Effect Judges (Submitted by George Hopkins) Essentially, Mr. Hopkins wants to get rid of the Visual and Musical General Effect categories and replace them with two Overall Effect categories. Judges already do this, they might as well give them the title. I'm sick of music GE tapes having more visual comments on them than musical. Quote
Danpod Posted January 23, 2009 Author Posted January 23, 2009 Skippy said: Judges already do this, they might as well give them the title. I'm sick of music GE tapes having more visual comments on them than musical. I never realized the crossover between General Effect Music and Visual was that bad on the tapes. Maybe DCI will opt to emphasize staying within the criteria of each caption rather than change the category all together. Quote
Danpod Posted January 23, 2009 Author Posted January 23, 2009 ftwdrummer said: Does the proposal for panels make any indication as to whether perc. will be in the box or on the field? As I recall, last year's five-judge panels had perc. in the box...and when you're an on-the-field percussion judge, usually (from my observation) your focus is on the battery, with pit seemingly becoming an afterthought. I believe the second percussion judge was in the stands but not in the press box. If the proposal goes through, only the field percussion judge would remain. Quote
Danpod Posted January 25, 2009 Author Posted January 25, 2009 DCI Rule Proposal Results The Overall Effect Judges rule was voted down almost unanimously. However, the Judges Advisory Committee will still explore and try the system this year. The DCI Judging Systems rule was passed unanimously. - All regular shows will use an eight judge panel. - DCI has the option of using a five judge panel for any show prior to July 10th. - Premier shows will use a ten judge panel. Percussion 2 caption has been eliminated. In a rule proposed at the meetings, DCI's tie breaking method for first place has been eliminated. In 2001, DCI elected to use ordinals to determine the winner of a show. Basically, you UIL-ized the individual captions and the corps with the lowest total score would win. Now, DCI will just award both corps with first place. The Electronics rule was clarified. Pre-recorded human voice will be allowed, along with sound effects. Seattle Cascades have been approved to return to World Class Status this coming year. Quote
Xenon Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 . . . . . . . . . We can have ties for the championship again?? Ugh. . . . I can understand Pre-Recorded Sound Effects (so long as they aren't melodic and/or rhythmic), but allowing Pre-Recorded Human Voice (playing forward) is a real problem. Human Voice is by default Melodic and/or Rhythmic and the quality of performance of such should be judged. Quote
Danpod Posted January 25, 2009 Author Posted January 25, 2009 Xenon said: I can understand Pre-Recorded Sound Effects (so long as they aren't melodic and/or rhythmic), but allowing Pre-Recorded Human Voice (playing forward) is a real problem. Human Voice is by default Melodic and/or Rhythmic and the quality of performance of such should be judged. I agree. If the electronics/amplification stuff is over-balanced then it should be reflected in the scoring. I don't think judges are taking any of it into account. Quote
bluebellbrass07 Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Xenon said: . . . . . . . . . We can have ties for the championship again?? Ugh. . . . I can understand Pre-Recorded Sound Effects (so long as they aren't melodic and/or rhythmic), but allowing Pre-Recorded Human Voice (playing forward) is a real problem. Human Voice is by default Melodic and/or Rhythmic and the quality of performance of such should be judged. To say that the human voice (speaking) is melodic and rhythmic in the same sense as music isn't really accurate I don't think...unless it happened to be like recessative from an opera. What about a historical speech to go along with a WWII themed show? Quote
Xenon Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Have you not heard Schoenberg? ;P There is always a tone and rhythm to how one speaks, even if it is just talk in general. As far as a historical speech goes, it's the same thing as having a recording of a great philharmonic piece being played over the amps. You just don't do it; You have to make it your own. Quote
bluebellbrass07 Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Xenon said: Have you not heard Schoenberg? ;P There is always a tone and rhythm to how one speaks, even if it is just talk in general. As far as a historical speech goes, it's the same thing as having a recording of a great philharmonic piece being played over the amps. You just don't do it; You have to make it your own. I generally choose to stay far far away from Schoenberg... Quote
treblemaker Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Danpod said: In a rule proposed at the meetings, DCI's tie breaking method for first place has been eliminated. In 2001, DCI elected to use ordinals to determine the winner of a show. Basically, you UIL-ized the individual captions and the corps with the lowest total score would win. Now, DCI will just award both corps with first place. Does that mean there are still tie breakers for other places or are there none in place right now? Quote
Danpod Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 treblemaker said: Does that mean there are still tie breakers for other places or are there none in place right now? Tie breakers don't exist for other places. It would just be a tie for fourth or eight or whatever. Quote
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