Who DOESNT think that Texas is the best?? :)

[omnjj]

This AMAZING state has the best bands and is really cool:)

(not to say there's other good ones out there;) )

Edited February 25, 2011 by omnjj

[daldhowe]

  omnjj said:

This AMAZING state has the best bands and is really cool:)

(not to say there's other good ones out there;) )

 

 

.......but not compared to TX. Really!

[Indianamarchingfan]

Clearly by size Texas has the most high quality bands in the country. I am clearly biased towards Indiana bands and think we can hold our own with anyone when it comes to the elite bands in the country. BOA results prove that as Indiana has fared well at the biggest competitions. Both states have great bands and it's always enjoyable to see the Texas bands each year in Indy. Marcus is amazing as is LD Bell, but look out for my Avon Marching Black & Gold as they will be back again this year looking for another championship. Good luck to all the bands!

[bchorn]

  Indianamarchingfan said:

Clearly by size Texas has the most high quality bands in the country. I am clearly biased towards Indiana bands and think we can hold our own with anyone when it comes to the elite bands in the country. BOA results prove that as Indiana has fared well at the biggest competitions. Both states have great bands and it's always enjoyable to see the Texas bands each year in Indy. Marcus is amazing as is LD Bell, but look out for my Avon Marching Black & Gold as they will be back again this year looking for another championship. Good luck to all the bands!

I agree that Indiana bands and Texas bands are amongst the best in the country. When you mention BOA results thought, I can't help but also think about the home field advantage that the Indiana elite bands enjoy at Grand Nationals...not only from a crowd aspect but also from a budget standpoint. None of the Indiana bands have to raise money to travel across the country every year for Grand Nationals like Texas bands do. In fact, band members of Indiana bands get to sleep in their own beds each night of the contest.

 

Which begs the question...how many Indiana bands would be able to afford to travel to Grand Nationals if they were held in DFW each year? Conversely, how many additional Texas bands would attend Grand Nationals if they were held in DFW? I think we would definitely see some different results.

[Xenon]

  bchorn said:

Which begs the question...how many Indiana bands would be able to afford to travel to Grand Nationals if they were held in DFW each year?

 

Please no. Oh please please no. Not in Cowboys Stadium.... That place is probably the worst place to ever have a marching contest.

 

The entrance/exit logistics are ungodly horrible (it is designed for one concert, not multiple one after another), the acoustics are really really weird thanks to the Huge TV. And the crowd noise will be unmanageable since you can see the field from anywhere even from all concessions stands (awesome for football).

[Indianamarchingfan]

  bchorn said:

I agree that Indiana bands and Texas bands are amongst the best in the country. When you mention BOA results thought, I can't help but also think about the home field advantage that the Indiana elite bands enjoy at Grand Nationals...not only from a crowd aspect but also from a budget standpoint. None of the Indiana bands have to raise money to travel across the country every year for Grand Nationals like Texas bands do. In fact, band members of Indiana bands get to sleep in their own beds each night of the contest.

 

Which begs the question...how many Indiana bands would be able to afford to travel to Grand Nationals if they were held in DFW each year? Conversely, how many additional Texas bands would attend Grand Nationals if they were held in DFW? I think we would definitely see some different results.

 

I agree 100% with everything you mention above. Of course Indiana bands have a huge homefield advantage whem competing at Grand Nats. in Indy. That's why I admire the Texas and out of state bands so much because I do realize that it is very difficult to travel and compete hundreds if not thousands of miles from home.

Yea also you are right it would be very difficult for many of the Indiana bands to afford to travel to Texas to complete if Grand Nats. were there. Carmel, Avon, Center Grove would likely make it, but several other Indiana bands generally at BOA Indy would not. I think it would be great however to have the Grand Nats. held in Texas, I would like to travel as a Hoosier to Texas to follow the Indiana bands. I think it would be fair to alternate it every other year between Indy and Texas?

 

I thoroughly enjoy watching the Texas bands, and as I said was blown away by Marcus a couple of years ago at Grand Nats. I think it will be a great competition again this year, and look forward to all bands from across the USA.

[bchorn]

  Indianamarchingfan said:

I agree 100% with everything you mention above. Of course Indiana bands have a huge homefield advantage whem competing at Grand Nats. in Indy. That's why I admire the Texas and out of state bands so much because I do realize that it is very difficult to travel and compete hundreds if not thousands of miles from home.

 

Yea also you are right it would be very difficult for many of the Indiana bands to afford to travel to Texas to complete if Grand Nats. were there. Carmel, Avon, Center Grove would likely make it, but several other Indiana bands generally at BOA Indy would not. I think it would be great however to have the Grand Nats. held in Texas, I would like to travel as a Hoosier to Texas to follow the Indiana bands. I think it would be fair to alternate it every other year between Indy and Texas?

 

I thoroughly enjoy watching the Texas bands, and as I said was blown away by Marcus a couple of years ago at Grand Nats. I think it will be a great competition again this year, and look forward to all bands from across the USA.

It would be pretty cool to if BOA could rotated Grand Nats between Indy and Texas.

 

Xenon,

I wasn't really think of any stadium in particular. However, now that you mention it, there probably wouldn't be a more appropriate venue size-wise for the contest in DFW other than Cowboy stadium. But like you said, that's a horrible place for marching bands.

[billybobjoe921]

You could just change it and put it in San Antonio in the Alamo Dome like the state competitions. The only down side is that its not the "Massive" stadium. It is though a close if not the same size as Lucas Oil stadium. That's my 2 cents.

[mellopwn1]

  billybobjoe921 said:

You could just change it and put it in San Antonio in the Alamo Dome like the state competitions. The only down side is that its not the "Massive" stadium. It is though a close if not the same size as Lucas Oil stadium. That's my 2 cents.

 

Lucas Oil is MUCH bigger...

[billybobjoe921]

Sorry i was reading the wrong page. It is very much smaller about 30,000 seats smaller which is not very good.

[TxRaider13]

Make them play at University of Texas at Austin at High Noon in the middle of summer....If you want a home field advantage..Other than that the Alamo Dome is about as good as you will get for bands, just ask Xenon and those who have been to Cowboys stadium, its not exactly a great place for bands and Houston has field issues as well.

Edited October 18, 2011 by TxRaider13

[HHSBandMom225]

We had a playoff game(once in a lifetime...no, seriously...once in a LIFETIME) at Cowboy Stadium a couple of years ago. I don't remember any acoustical issues when the bands performed. It seemed no different to me than inside any stadium. After all, the Alamodome has its own echos and so forth. The biggest issue was the hash marks. They were not set up for high school football/high school marching bands. That would have to be changed. It's possible, since the field is just rolled out in strips with Velcro. As far as crowd noise, I also see no real issue there. I also don't see what the big deal is with coming on the field in the middle...just have them come in on one side and exit the other. Again, those types of things can be accomplished, and there's no denying that place is state-of-the-art. One way to "test" the possibility of an "every-other-year" GNs in DFW is to have BOA Arlington there. Smaller contest with great bands... could be interesting for sure. I suppose the only negative would be having to deal with Jerry Jones. *sigh* That might be enough to say, "FORGET IT!" lol sarcasm: You know Jerry Jones is a HUGE marching band fan. bwahaha

[Cookie_MonsterSR]

  Xenon said:

Please no. Oh please please no. Not in Cowboys Stadium.... That place is probably the worst place to ever have a marching contest.

 

The entrance/exit logistics are ungodly horrible (it is designed for one concert, not multiple one after another), the acoustics are really really weird thanks to the Huge TV. And the crowd noise will be unmanageable since you can see the field from anywhere even from all concessions stands (awesome for football).

 

 

Just open the giant glass doors on either end of the stadium lol

[mellopwn1]

  HHSBandMom225 said:

We had a playoff game(once in a lifetime...no, seriously...once in a LIFETIME) at Cowboy Stadium a couple of years ago. I don't remember any acoustical issues when the bands performed. It seemed no different to me than inside any stadium. After all, the Alamodome has its own echos and so forth. The biggest issue was the hash marks. They were not set up for high school football/high school marching bands. That would have to be changed. It's possible, since the field is just rolled out in strips with Velcro. As far as crowd noise, I also see no real issue there. I also don't see what the big deal is with coming on the field in the middle...just have them come in on one side and exit the other. Again, those types of things can be accomplished, and there's no denying that place is state-of-the-art. One way to "test" the possibility of an "every-other-year" GNs in DFW is to have BOA Arlington there. Smaller contest with great bands... could be interesting for sure. I suppose the only negative would be having to deal with Jerry Jones. *sigh* That might be enough to say, "FORGET IT!" lol sarcasm: You know Jerry Jones is a HUGE marching band fan. bwahaha

Two things:

 

Lucas Oil, the stadium for Grand Nationals, and (I assume) the Georgia Dome and Edwards Jones Stadium (BOA Atlanta and St. Louis) have "incorrect" hashes. The painted hashes on those fields are "pro" hashes. Texas bands use NCAA hashes, while most other states use "high school" hashes. To make sure everybody has a reference, BOA usually just places a piece of tape indicating the non-painted hashes for the bands whose normal field references aren't there on every yard line. It's obnoxious and sometimes confusing, but it's what they do, and really probably the only thing they can.

 

The excuse that I've always heard is that Cowboy stadium is prohibitively expensive. So expensive that BOA could never break even renting it out, especially for an event as small as BOA Arlington like you suggest.

Edited November 2, 2011 by mellopwn1

[Donezo]

  TxRaider13 said:

Make them play at University of Texas at Austin at High Noon in the middle of summer....If you want a home field advantage..Other than that the Alamo Dome is about as good as you will get for bands, just ask Xenon and those who have been to Cowboys stadium, its not exactly a great place for bands and Houston has field issues as well.

 

I still contend that the UT stadium was the best ever venue for State Marching Contest, although Dome contests are obviously popular due to weather concerns. Plus, BOA at UT would be a hilarious parking disaster of epic proportions.

[takigan]

  Indianamarchingfan said:

I agree 100% with everything you mention above. Of course Indiana bands have a huge homefield advantage whem competing at Grand Nats. in Indy. That's why I admire the Texas and out of state bands so much because I do realize that it is very difficult to travel and compete hundreds if not thousands of miles from home.

Yea also you are right it would be very difficult for many of the Indiana bands to afford to travel to Texas to complete if Grand Nats. were there. Carmel, Avon, Center Grove would likely make it, but several other Indiana bands generally at BOA Indy would not. I think it would be great however to have the Grand Nats. held in Texas, I would like to travel as a Hoosier to Texas to follow the Indiana bands. I think it would be fair to alternate it every other year between Indy and Texas?.

 

The 3 bands you mentioned would likely regularly attend, but not every year. Texas has many bands that compete in Grand Nationals (Bell, SFA, The Woodlands, Marcus, Richland, Bowie, Churchill, Reagan, Spring, Clear Brook).....Oklahoma has a few (Broken Arrow, Owasso and Union), Georgia has a few (Kennesaw Mountain, Harrison, Collins Hill, Forsyth Central).....Most of these bands are all regular finalists as well. How many of those bands attend GN every year? Only Broken Arrow (and Bell up until this year). If you put Indiana in that same travel situation I don't see even their finalist bands attending every year with the exception of Carmel (since they budget so much for travel) and maybe Avon (though they'd have to rethink their budget a bit). I could see Avon being an "every other year" band like the Woodlands or K.Mtn with occasional 2-in-a-rows, though Avon is INSANELY competitive (like Carmel) so they might just attend every year on principle. I actually see Center Grove and Lawrence Central attending every 3 or 4 years (like Richland, Bowie, SFA or Churchill).

 

So in a typical sequence of GNs held in Texas:

 

2012 might have Carmel, Avon and Castle attending (2 finalists).

2013 might have Carmel, Penn and Lawrence Central (1 finalist, maybe 2),

2014 might just be Carmel and Avon (2 finalists),

2015 would be Carmel, Avon, Center Grove and Ben Davis (2 finalists, maybe 3 if it's a good year)

2016 may see Castle come back with Carmel, Lake Central and Lawrence Central making another appearance (1 maybe 2 finalists)

2017 Carmel, Avon and some other random Indiana band that managed to field the money (think Hidalgo) (2 finalists)

 

One thing's for sure.....Texas would have the monopoly on finalist bands, mainly because there'd be so many more Texas bands competing and Indiana would only be able to send a handful of who they have, much like Texas does now.

[Centex_band_mom]

Is there another possible indoor venue that would be more central to everyone? Something in Kansas, Missouri, Colorado, or Nebraska?

[bchorn]

  Centex_band_mom said:

Is there another possible indoor venue that would be more central to everyone? Something in Kansas, Missouri, Colorado, or Nebraska?

I think the fairest solution would be to rotate the championships around the country. It's really hard for the bands on either coast to travel anywhere to the mid-west so only the elite bands like Tarpoon Springs (FL) Wando (SC) and the Atlanta schools make the attempt. So maybe rotate from West Coast, Texas, Indianapolis, and East coast every year.

 

Of course, I know that BOA hosts Grand Nationals in Indianapolis for the same reasons DCI hosts the world championships their too: Logistics. It's very hard on both organizations to rotate the championships each year so having the championship in the same city each year reduces expenses and increases the stability for the event.

 

This thread depresses me as much as a discussion of a legitimate playoff system for College Football since both seem highly unlikely to change anytime soon.

[HHSBandMom225]

  mellopwn1 said:

Two things:

 

Lucas Oil, the stadium for Grand Nationals, and (I assume) the Georgia Dome and Edwards Jones Stadium (BOA Atlanta and St. Louis) have "incorrect" hashes. The painted hashes on those fields are "pro" hashes. Texas bands use NCAA hashes, while most other states use "high school" hashes. To make sure everybody has a reference, BOA usually just places a piece of tape indicating the non-painted hashes for the bands whose normal field references aren't there on every yard line. It's obnoxious and sometimes confusing, but it's what they do, and really probably the only thing they can.

 

The excuse that I've always heard is that Cowboy stadium is prohibitively expensive. So expensive that BOA could never break even renting it out, especially for an event as small as BOA Arlington like you suggest.

 

I was answering to the "excuses" listed above by someone who didn't want BOA at Cowboy stadium. They didn't list the cost of renting it, which I'm sure, is expensive. They talked about the entrances/exits, noise, etc. That's why I posted what I did about those particular things. As far as the hash marks are concerned, I'm only speaking from experience of seeing bands march in Cowboy stadium...and that I've toured it and saw how easy it was for them to change the field out to whatever is needed. They had a rodeo, soccer game, and concert there just a few days apart. It's amazing what they can do in that place. Like I said, I'm sure it's expensive, but if the goal is to have GNs in Texas at some point, and the intent is for bands from out of state(in particular from Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, etc.) to attend, DFW is still the best place to have it. San Antonio is another 6 or so hours from DFW. Not to mention the fact that several of the top winners in Texas are from DFW area as well...not to discount those from Austin, Houston, etc. The reason I suggested BOA Arlington at Cowboy stadium is because...well, Cowboy stadium is IN Arlington(that's a plus), and I do think more bands would participate in BOA Arlington if given the chance to play in such a venue, so there's no reason to make a definite conclusion that BOA wouldn't make any money from it. It also showcases just what Texas can do, which could possibly appeal to those making the decisions about where contests are held...such as GNs.

 

All that being said, thanks to weather, the Super Bowl was a flop...not exactly the positive image one might want to portray. Then again, who knows? It was all just a thought, anyway. It's not like there's actual talk of GNs moving or switching around.

[Xenon]

  HHSBandMom225 said:

I was answering to the "excuses" listed above by someone who didn't want BOA at Cowboy stadium.

 

I didn't make "excuses" for why Cowboy Stadium shouldn't be considered, I posted factual logistical nightmare problems. The fact is that that stadium was designed for football and single concerts, not back to back to back performances which must have a continuous streamlined flow in and out of the stadium.

 

Moving in and out from the sideline entrances is not feasible due to the size of bands and props and pits. The endzone with the convenient loading and unloading has two small entrances which are not feasible for props. The bands could enter/exit through those, but once you exit the field, you find that the roadway through that section is a hassle for any more than one band to be at one time. That endzone was designed to have the transportation sitting on the indoor road right there and you can't do that with a band competition. The other endzone entrance is huge and easily handles the props, but is a one-way street that winds and winds and winds and climbs and climbs and climbs. You would have to push pit and props around for a good quarter mile up and down constant inclines and somehow manage to avoid the other props and pits that are trying to go the other way.

 

And then you have the concourse where the concessions are and the fact that every concessions stand can be seen and heard from just about anywhere in the stadium and all of the sound of the constant hustle and bustle is purposely designed to make the field extremely loud in order to help confuse the other football team and also to make it to where you can awesomely have a great view of the game even while waiting to pay more money to Jerry.

 

And the way that sounds bounce weirdly in there is horrendous. The stadium was not built with acoustical clarity in mind and the humongous screen is proof of that.

 

Hashmarks are a problem that everyone always has to deal with at every college/pro stadium. The band should be properly prepared for it before it ever becomes an issue. GN at Lucas Oil has pro-hashes just like Cowboys Stadium. The contest officials just put down tape markers for all the other hashes just like they always do everywhere.

 

I have been to Cowboys Stadium many times for HS football games and have personally helped lead bands around in the bowels of the place in order to perform. It is not any place that I ever wish that anybody will have to deal with from a contest logistics standpoint.

[HHSBandMom225]

  Xenon said:

I didn't make "excuses" for why Cowboy Stadium shouldn't be considered, I posted factual logistical nightmare problems. The fact is that that stadium was designed for football and single concerts, not back to back to back performances which must have a continuous streamlined flow in and out of the stadium.

 

Moving in and out from the sideline entrances is not feasible due to the size of bands and props and pits. The endzone with the convenient loading and unloading has two small entrances which are not feasible for props. The bands could enter/exit through those, but once you exit the field, you find that the roadway through that section is a hassle for any more than one band to be at one time. That endzone was designed to have the transportation sitting on the indoor road right there and you can't do that with a band competition. The other endzone entrance is huge and easily handles the props, but is a one-way street that winds and winds and winds and climbs and climbs and climbs. You would have to push pit and props around for a good quarter mile up and down constant inclines and somehow manage to avoid the other props and pits that are trying to go the other way.

 

And then you have the concourse where the concessions are and the fact that every concessions stand can be seen and heard from just about anywhere in the stadium and all of the sound of the constant hustle and bustle is purposely designed to make the field extremely loud in order to help confuse the other football team and also to make it to where you can awesomely have a great view of the game even while waiting to pay more money to Jerry.

 

And the way that sounds bounce weirdly in there is horrendous. The stadium was not built with acoustical clarity in mind and the humongous screen is proof of that.

 

Hashmarks are a problem that everyone always has to deal with at every college/pro stadium. The band should be properly prepared for it before it ever becomes an issue. GN at Lucas Oil has pro-hashes just like Cowboys Stadium. The contest officials just put down tape markers for all the other hashes just like they always do everywhere.

 

I have been to Cowboys Stadium many times for HS football games and have personally helped lead bands around in the bowels of the place in order to perform. It is not any place that I ever wish that anybody will have to deal with from a contest logistics standpoint.

 

I used the word "excuses" and put it in quotes because the person I was talking to used the word "excuses." Good grief. Let's get that out of the way right off. I wasn't meaning it as an insult in any way. Okay?

 

Good for you and your "facts." I was stating opinions and my personal feelings having been in the stadium many times myself. As for bands being "ready" for the pro hash marks...you wrote after that that there's tape used in the stadiums that DO have pro marks...so the bands don't have to be prepared to use the pro marks..they've got tape! Goodness gracious...I don't see why there's a need to basically insult my comment or bands that maybe didn't take tape to a playoff game and were 'unprepared" by the different hash marks. Like I said, it was a once in a lifetime thing. Our team made playoffs once three years ago.

 

My opinion is still that Cowboy stadium could work if one wanted to make it work. But...AGAIN...it's not like anyone is actually talking about putting any marching contests there, so rest easy....unless I win the lottery and decide to host my own marching contest there. In that case, I guess I can count you out. <<Oh, and before someone gets upset. I'm joking.... These forums get a little too serious for my taste. Life is short. I try to keep things light, if possible.

 

On a side note: Last time I checked there are NO football stadiums designed specifically for marching contests. Sure, there are some that are easier to get into than others, but they all have their problems...and none of them were designed for marching bands going in and out...at least, last time I checked. Just because some of them work, doesn't mean they were made for band. hmm Maybe when I win that lottery, after my marching contest at Cowboy stadium, I'll design my own place specifically made for marching contests...no football, soccer, etc. or non-high-school-band concerts allowed!! I'll just sit back and have one contest after another, and since I'm a multi-millionaire, I won't even charge anyone to participate. Just come out and perform your show and see who's best...and if a judge decides to be all whacky with his/her scoring, they're outta there! -- well, maybe three strikes and they're out. Oh, there I go with my sports talk again. And while I'm thinking about this, I think I'd make the scoring somewhat like the some of the Olympics' competitions...the lowest and highest marks are tossed. Oo! This sounds fun! Maybe I should actually buy one of those lottery tickets...

[Xenon]

  HHSBandMom225 said:

On a side note: Last time I checked there are NO football stadiums designed specifically for marching contests.

 

Lucas Oil in Indianapolis was specifically designed with the Marching Arts in mind. Special design considerations were specifically put in place to ensure a balance between pro football needs and the needs of the numerous marching and DCI competitions that take place there. The designers of Lucas Oil purposefully consulted with ISSMA, BOA, and DCI when designing the stadium.

[HHSBandMom225]

  Xenon said:

Lucas Oil in Indianapolis was specifically designed with the Marching Arts in mind. Special design considerations were specifically put in place to ensure a balance between pro football needs and the needs of the numerous marching and DCI competitions that take place there. The designers of Lucas Oil purposefully consulted with ISSMA, BOA, and DCI when designing the stadium.

 

Mine will be better. It will be made ONLY for marching bands' competitions and it will be right here at home.