2011 BOA San Antonio

[Nope]

I think what has happened here is that Marcus had an easier show so they performed it better, hence winning the performance captions in prelims, but bell's show was harder and almost as clean so they lost performance and won the caption that tries to put performance and difficulty into one. GE is an interesting experiment, they just haven't gotten it quite right. (I didn't see boasa so I could be 400% wrong.)

Edited November 7, 2011 by Nope

[Donezo]

  Shadow Weaver said:

You're right in saying that design is out of the kids' hands, but the fun with BOA is that there is a greater focus on the artistry, pomp, and pageantry of marching band. Sounds like enjoying the UIL State Marching Band competitions is the way for you to go. Being a more educationally-focused competition, you can enjoy the rewarding of excellence and perfection in performance.

 

You have to approach both unique adjudication systems with the fact in mind that they have a distinct place in the marching band world. Once you are comfortable with that fact, you can enjoy each of the performances that much more.

 

LOL. I know. I've been around both systems for probably as long as you have. I'm just scratching my head over the prelims results. It's pretty rare for a band to win both performance captions and not win everything. The last time I can think of is.....Marcus at the same contest in 2005. Strange. It just seems very backwards to me. Again, I'm glad the situation didn't repeat itself in finals.

[award]

I truly enjoyed every band that performed on Saturday.. I have to say that in my many years being a marching band spectator, this was by far one of the best and toughest competitions I've seen!

 

There are a few things I do have to get off my chest tho..

 

1) Clear Falls High School band members, I'm sure that you expect spectators watching your show to be quiet, pay attention and be respectful so PLEASE do the same for each and every band that you are watching perform. Getting up and looking for your bag, yelling across seats of people and talking the entire time only makes your band look bad. Also, it annoys those around you that are actually trying to enjoy the competition.

 

2) This also goes to Clear Falls and every other band that may do the same thing (sorry to seem like I'm picking on you, but I have to admit that the band students that were surrounding us really ruined the last block of prelims for me.)... If your band does not place where you want it to, DO NOT sit there and loudly bash the bands that did place higher than you. You can disagree with the results all day long, however talking about how "So much better" and "how they have the same show we do, why did they win".. only makes your band look like a sore loser. Also, you never know who is sitting around you in the stands...

 

3) I really liked how a few of the bands (Marcus, SFA, Spring, Air Academy) got to walk in during retreat.. I also want to say that I find it refreshing to watch other bands pay attention, be quiet, and stand and clap for those bands that are performing on the field. Marcus and SFA come to mind.

 

Again, GOOD JOB TO ALL BANDS!! I really enjoyed this weekend.

 

And, does anyone know where I can get one of those head dresses that the Bell Guard wear??? I have an idea for an AWESOME Halloween costume!

[whitewing09]

  Shadow Weaver said:

You're right in saying that design is out of the kids' hands, but the fun with BOA is that there is a greater focus on the artistry, pomp, and pageantry of marching band. Sounds like enjoying the UIL State Marching Band competitions is the way for you to go. Being a more educationally-focused competition, you can enjoy the rewarding of excellence and perfection in performance.

 

You have to approach both unique adjudication systems with the fact in mind that they have a distinct place in the marching band world. Once you are comfortable with that fact, you can enjoy each of the performances that much more.

 

 

I feel like too many people say that the emphasis on BOA is based on pageantry. While it may increase a bands score-ish? The bands that do well in BOA often do well in UIL and vice-versa. I feel that Coppell is only of the only exception. Both circuits value clean shows. One of the things that probably affects the scoring majorly is having judges on the field who can see and hear how well these bands play. They can point out the people who don't play as well, maybe who aren't marching uniformly.

 

Also BOA gives raw scores. idk why I think that's significant, but it seems that it would be.

[Shadow Weaver]

  whitewing09 said:

I feel like too many people say that the emphasis on BOA is based on pageantry. While it may increase a bands score-ish? The bands that do well in BOA often do well in UIL and vice-versa. I feel that Coppell is only of the only exception. Both circuits value clean shows. One of the things that probably affects the scoring majorly is having judges on the field who can see and hear how well these bands play. They can point out the people who don't play as well, maybe who aren't marching uniformly.

 

Also BOA gives raw scores. idk why I think that's significant, but it seems that it would be.

 

My point is that they are different scoring systems that take different factors into consideration. Naturally, a very good marching band will perfom strongly in both circuits, regardless of the criteria. However, bands will move up and down in the rankings of both circuits based on the show's intended audience. Am I the only one that remembers the early parts of this millenium when performing bands like Ronald Reagan would do significantly better at BOA (even ranking top 3 at BOA Houston) the same year in which they failed to advance to state (or maybe it was state finals)? The same can be said about Duncanville in the early 90's before they stopped participating in BOA altogether. Even Shine himself has stated the educational vs. design focus of the two circuits as a major reason for his desire to stop participating in BOA.

 

It's also notable that bands that have introduced new design elements into shows have surpassed better performing ensembles over the course of BOA competitions (Center Grove 1995, Ronald Reagan 2000, 2001).

 

That BOA has a bent toward design is not a knock on the system but a statement of fact.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Shadow Weaver

[Donezo]

  Shadow Weaver said:

Am I the only one that remembers the early parts of this millenium when performing bands like Ronald Reagan would do significantly better at BOA (even ranking top 3 at BOA Houston) the same year in which they failed to advance to state (or maybe it was state finals)?

 

I remember! I think they didn't advance in 2000 and missed finals in 2002. I remember the crowd ooh-ing and aaah-ing over the plume change at State in 2002. And then I was left wondering if the whole band was ever going to play at the same time. LOL. They thankfully achieved a happier balance in 2004 and 2006 and performed really well in both arenas. However, those are the two shows from Reagan's peak that people tend to overlook. Perhaps there is a bit of a trade off there!

[Nope]

  Shadow Weaver said:

My point is that they are different scoring systems that take different factors into consideration. Naturally, a very good marching band will perfom strongly in both circuits, regardless of the criteria. However, bands will move up and down in the rankings of both circuits based on the show's intended audience. Am I the only one that remembers the early parts of this millenium when performing bands like Ronald Reagan would do significantly better at BOA (even ranking top 3 at BOA Houston) the same year in which they failed to advance to state (or maybe it was state finals)? The same can be said about Duncanville in the early 90's before they stopped participating in BOA altogether. Even Shine himself has stated the educational vs. design focus of the two circuits as a major reason for his desire to stop participating in BOA.

 

It's also notable that bands that have introduced new design elements into shows have surpassed better performing ensembles over the course of BOA competitions (Center Grove 1995, Ronald Reagan 2000, 2001).

 

That BOA has a bent toward design is not a knock on the system but a statement of fact.

 

UIL is all about design too. It's just a different type of design. UIL shows are designed to LOOK cleaner. In every marching band competition it's all about design. Design helps you achieve that false perception of cleanliness by hiding the dirt. That's why boa awards exposure more.

[drummerjoe]

  Nope said:

UIL is all about design too. It's just a different type of design. UIL shows are designed to LOOK cleaner. In every marching band competition it's all about design. Design helps you achieve that false perception of cleanliness by hiding the dirt. That's why boa awards exposure more.

 

Well I think the emphasis is that UIL is geared toward execution while BOA is geared toward audience appeal.

[Ashton-Taylor]

  Drum major said:

Becoming a Cedar Ridge fan... Been watching you guys get better and better with every march.. Don't be surprised if next year you are one of those "dark horses" !!!

 

(: All of the support really means a lot.

[xAmazinAznx]

One thing I do love that Bands of America lets you do is be more artistic.

[alexp]

It's weird how a band can get 4 th in ensemble music, but around 30th in individual music. Get 17th in ensemble marching, but 45 in individual marching. That judging seems a bit off. (the scores were from Westlake)

[Danpod]

  alexp said:

It's weird how a band can get 4 th in ensemble music, but around 30th in individual music. Get 17th in ensemble marching, but 45 in individual marching. That judging seems a bit off. (the scores were from Westlake)

 

Says the person from Westlake. The judging is not off in this case. There are tons of errors that can sampled on field level and still not be heard/seen from the Press Box. A student can be completely struggling with his notes but that sound may never carry upstairs.

[Ashton-Taylor]

  xAmazinAznx said:

One thing I do love that Bands of America lets you do is be more artistic.

 

I agree! Watching finals is always an amazing, memorable experience because all of the shows are so extravagant.

[CentexBandKid]

  Danpod said:

Says the person from Westlake. The judging is not off in this case. There are tons of errors that can sampled on field level and still not be heard/seen from the Press Box. A student can be completely struggling with his notes but that sound may never carry upstairs.

 

 

After a looking into this I found that Hebron, Rouse, Leander and Vandegrift were the only bands that had the opposite be true, their individual scores being higher than their ensemble.

 

How is that even possible? Shouldn't good individual music scores (such as Leander being 5th place) imply a good Ensemble music score? (Leander ended up in 30th) How could they be that far apart?

Edited November 8, 2011 by CentexBandKid

[alexp]

have full prelims results been released yet?

[CentexBandKid]

  alexp said:

have full prelims results been released yet?

BOA website, yes.

http://cdn.musicforall.org/images/stories/...XSA.Prelims.pdf

[drummerjoe]

  CentexBandKid said:

After a looking into this I found that Hebron, Rouse, Leander and Vandegrift were the only bands that had the opposite be true, their individual scores being higher than their ensemble.

 

How is that even possible? Shouldn't good individual music scores (such as Leander being 5th place) imply a good Ensemble music score? (Leander ended up in 30th) How could they be that far apart?

 

Well you can be executing your part perfectly, but one beat off from the person next to you.

[Abbie123]

I don't think that was the case drummerjoe, the individual music judge might have heard something on the field that did not carry to the box... but really Leander 5th individual marching, 6th individual playing to 49th ensemble marching, and 32 ensemble playing, something didn't carry to the box and vice-versa..... (I think that is the biggest disconnect in placement from the field judges to the press-box judges).

 

BTW that was some pretty amazing finals... Congrats Round Rock and Anderson for being the dark horses!!!

[IMcom-Josh]

Following Abbie's comment, I also noticed that gap. Leander wasn't the only one I noticed that with as well as Brazoswood had a similar disconnect as well but where the individual judges scored low and the ensemble judges scored high. Certainly something was happening in transition from the field to the box. I didn't look too closely to see if this happened to many more groups though.

 

Good job to all the bands though! Looking forward to seeing Woodlands, CTJ and Spring in Indy this week.

[Rubisco]

  Danpod said:

Says the person from Westlake. The judging is not off in this case. There are tons of errors that can sampled on field level and still not be heard/seen from the Press Box. A student can be completely struggling with his notes but that sound may never carry upstairs.

 

I'm actually going to have to disagree here. Great individual performances will usually translate into great ensemble performances. If you have a few great players and an ocean of other players that are not so good, those few good players will NOT compensate for the rest of the band and produce a great ensemble sound. You'll likely hear those strong players sticking out of the ensemble, and thus the band will not be producing a balanced sound. Unfortunately in this case, we don't know if the ensemble score or the individual score is anomalous, since Westlake did not perform again in finals with a completely different set of judges. Again, many of the individual scores in prelims have me scratching my head. I think maybe these judges did a poor job sampling some of the bands. Either that, or they see/hear things very differently from other judges.

 

I would like to clarify that I don't think the individual and ensemble scores/rankings should be identical, but I do think they should generally be around the same area-- particularly in music and to a lesser extent in visual. In visual, maybe there are cases where forms will hit nicely, but people are marching completely out of time. I feel, though, that even that would be a little bit apparent from up high. Maybe just not as apparent as down on the field.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Rubisco

[drummerjoe]

I'm gonna see if I can compile an analysis of the results on excel (rankings in each section). If I do, then I'll post it to google docs and post the link here.

[Abbie123]

Do you mean like the individual rankings for each caption, and miscellaneous stuff like that?

But thanks anyway, going through all that work.

Probably should use a ocr (optical character recognition) so you don't have to type in the data individually, don't want you not finishing homework

[Danpod]

  Rubisco said:

I'm actually going to have to disagree here. Great individual performances will usually translate into great ensemble performances. If you have a few great players and an ocean of other players that are not so good, those few good players will NOT compensate for the rest of the band and produce a great ensemble sound. You'll likely hear those strong players sticking out of the ensemble, and thus the band will not be producing a balanced sound. Unfortunately in this case, we don't know if the ensemble score or the individual score is anomalous, since Westlake did not perform again in finals with a completely different set of judges. Again, many of the individual scores in prelims have me scratching my head. I think maybe these judges did a poor job sampling some of the bands. Either that, or they see/hear things very differently from other judges.

 

I would like to clarify that I don't think the individual and ensemble scores/rankings should be identical, but I do think they should generally be around the same area-- particularly in music and to a lesser extent in visual. In visual, maybe there are cases where forms will hit nicely, but people are marching completely out of time. I feel, though, that even that would be a little bit apparent from up high. Maybe just not as apparent as down on the field.

 

Typically, the individual scores will match up with the ensemble scores. However, every band runs the risk of having the individual music/visual judge come up to the few students who may be struggling with their shows. The ensemble judge may hear a full sound but the individual judge will dock the program if he comes across students who are not playing their notes. Field judges usually take good sized samples. You'd be surprised how often students freeze up with they see a green polo shirt in front of them.

[Abbie123]

Haha Happened to a friend of mine, said that she some how couldn't play the last note because a "guy in a green polo shirt" was standing in-front of her. Said it never happened before....

[Scott's a Band Nerd]

So I don't normally post, but I do peruse the forums a lot around contest season. I'm a former McNeil kid, and I just wanted to jump in and say not all of us share the attitude that MaverickBand15 has towards Round Rock. A lot of us, myself included, were VERY excited to see Round Rock make finals (and then to place so well that evening, huge props!). There's always been sort of a rivalry between the two programs, and even a few instances of bad blood, but I know myself and countless others who have gone through the program at McNeil who would never take anything away from the hard-work and talent RR has. I'm pretty sure RR feels the same way.

 

I didn't really want to post anything, but I also didn't want a bad mark left on McNeil. So a sincere congratulations to Round Rock and all the finals bands at SA (heck, all competing bands. It takes some guts to compete at that competition) and best of luck to all those going to Indy, and wishes for a good season next year for those who aren't!

 

P.S. What happened to Marcus?? I saw them just recently and was sure they were going to sweep it all! I really wish I would have seen finals now, sounds like a great competition this year.