2012 Area D 5A Marching Contest

[Drum major]

  Donezo said:

For all the wacky inconsistencies, we still wound up with a 7 point gap between 10th and 11th, which ultimately means that the judges did their jobs and there was a rough consensus on who the top 10 bands were that day. Yes, somebody had Round Rock 22nd and that might have been too low. At the same time, nobody had them higher than 10th. It's hard to make a case that anyone was screwed over in prelims. The only band who really has a right to complain about scoring is probably Westwood, who only missed out on State advancement by one rank point.

 

 

So let me get this straight....You think just because we are voicing our dissatisfaction with judging that what Round Rock received was justified because of the fact "only one judge gave them 22".... Did you see Round Rock march? Did you watch every band there march? Do you honestly belive that Round Rock didn't deserve to be in finals? If you answer yes to the above.... You didn't get the point....

I'm happy that you think that they judges did their job... carry on......

[TxRaider13]

  Drum major said:

So let me get this straight....You think just because we are voicing our dissatisfaction with judging that what Round Rock received was justified because of the fact "only one judge gave them 22".... Did you see Round Rock march? Did you watch every band there march? Do you honestly belive that Round Rock didn't deserve to be in finals? If you answer yes to the above.... You didn't get the point....

I'm happy that you think that they judges did their job... carry on......

 

 

Some body is pumped and angry, care to explain what it is you're really angry with?.......... (goes to get popcorn for the rest of the show)

Edited October 29, 2012 by TxRaider13

[OverCommittedParent]

  Donezo said:

For all the wacky inconsistencies, we still wound up with a 7 point gap between 10th and 11th, which ultimately means that the judges did their jobs and there was a rough consensus on who the top 10 bands were that day. Yes, somebody had Round Rock 22nd and that might have been too low. At the same time, nobody had them higher than 10th. It's hard to make a case that anyone was screwed over in prelims. The only band who really has a right to complain about scoring is probably Westwood, who only missed out on State advancement by one rank point.

 

Again, I'm not griping about who made finals and who didn't. Every band who made finals worked their hearts out and put on a great show. But if we're going to have a judging system, that judging system needs to have legitimacy. What we had in prelims were scoring variancies like the following in marching:

 

J4 J5

Westwood 4 13

Churchill 15 5

McNeil 2 17

Anderson 26 7

Round R 22 10

Wagner 7 25

It's just my opinion, but I think this is a problem. I don't think it's enough to say they ultimately got the top 10 bands right. Every band deserves to be adequately assessed. Did McNeil march a "2" show or a "17"? Did Anderson march a "26" show or a "7"? Did Wagner march a "7" show or "25"? Don't these bands deserve a legitimate assessment even if it was fair for all three of them to not make the top 10?

Edited October 29, 2012 by OverCommittedParent

[Drum major]

  TxRaider13 said:

Some body is pumped and angry, care to explain what it is you're really angry with?.......... (goes to get popcorn for the rest of the show)

 

 

If you even have to ask that question.. I'm not sure popcorn is what you need...

[TxRaider13]

  Drum major said:

If you even have to ask that question.. I'm not sure popcorn is what you need...

 

You thinking a pepsi to go with it too???

[Merkal]

  OverCommittedParent said:

Again, I'm not griping about who made finals and who didn't. Every band who made finals worked their hearts out and put on a great show. But if we're going to have a judging system, that judging system needs to have legitimacy. What we had in prelims were scoring variancies like the following in marching:

 

J4 J5

Westwood 4 13

Churchill 15 5

McNeil 2 17

Anderson 26 7

Round R 22 10

Wagner 7 25

It's just my opinion, but I think this is a problem. I don't think it's enough to say they ultimately got the top 10 bands right. Every band deserves to be adequately assessed. Did McNeil march a "2" show or a "17"? Did Anderson march a "26" show or a "7"? Did Wagner march a "7" show or "25"? Don't these bands deserve a legitimate assessment even if it was fair for all three of them to not make the top 10?

 

You have to remember that the different judges see different things... They watch until they find something to comment on, then talk and make opinions... Naturally, while commenting they are mostly thinking about what they just saw, not what was going on the field currently... Because of this "sampling", variances in scores are not really surprising... It comes down to being able to perform everything at a high level... And yes, round rocks performance time did not help them, but that score variance is not the problem

[Drum major]

  TxRaider13 said:

You thinking a pepsi to go with it too???

 

 

ummmmm... try again smart guy.

[Drum major]

  Drum major said:

ummmmm... try again smart guy.

 

i was actually joking with you that time... my smile face didn't click so here it is

[joycekm1]

Before this gets too crazy with upset complaints over scoring, I'd just like to let y'all know that as a student from Round Rock, the amount of support we have received in light of Area (both online here and in real life) has been really uplifting. It means quite a lot to us.

[Bandaid1]

UIL = "U In Luck".

 

This is almost like a lottery drawing. It is amazing that there are still some people believe that Score Variance is not the problem. I will feel better if I see McNeil with a score of 2 and 4, RR with 18 and 22 or Anderson 25 and 27 instead of 2 and 17, 10 and 22 and so on. Have you seen a band marching with such inconsistency? One section gets a 2 and the other judge on the other side of the field gives a 17. Or even worse is 7 and 26 like the Anderson's kids received. So what should we tell these kids about their performance? 2 or17? 10 or 22? 7 or 26?

[Donezo]

  Drum major said:

So let me get this straight....You think just because we are voicing our dissatisfaction with judging that what Round Rock received was justified because of the fact "only one judge gave them 22".... Did you see Round Rock march? Did you watch every band there march? Do you honestly belive that Round Rock didn't deserve to be in finals? If you answer yes to the above.... You didn't get the point....

I'm happy that you think that they judges did their job... carry on......

 

It's not a matter of what I think. 3/5 of the judges had Round Rock out of the top 10. The two who had them in had them in 10th. You complain about the inconsistency of it all, but I see five judges consistently agreeing that it was not a top tier performance. I'm sorry things didn't work out on Saturday. Complaining about the system isn't going to help anything. Honestly, it seems like you're upset that you didn't get the results that you wanted. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you still have BOA SA. I only commented because the hyperbole over the "broken" UIL system that comes around every October irritates me to no end and is usually unfounded. If that 22 vote was all that kept Round Rock out of State Marching Contest, then I'd agree that there was a problem.

[Bandaid1]

  Donezo said:

It's not a matter of what I think. 3/5 of the judges had Round Rock out of the top 10. The two who had them in had them in 10th. You complain about the inconsistency of it all, but I see five judges consistently agreeing that it was not a top tier performance. I'm sorry things didn't work out on Saturday. Complaining about the system isn't going to help anything. Honestly, it seems like you're upset that you didn't get the results that you wanted. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you still have BOA SA. I only commented because the hyperbole over the "broken" UIL system that comes around every October irritates me to no end and is usually unfounded. If that 22 vote was all that kept Round Rock out of State Marching Contest, then I'd agree that there was a problem.

 

 

So What do you think about Anderson? They got robbed by one jugde that gave them a score of 26?

[Drum major]

  Donezo said:

It's not a matter of what I think. 3/5 of the judges had Round Rock out of the top 10. The two who had them in had them in 10th. You complain about the inconsistency of it all, but I see five judges consistently agreeing that it was not a top tier performance. I'm sorry things didn't work out on Saturday. Complaining about the system isn't going to help anything. Honestly, it seems like you're upset that you didn't get the results that you wanted. It's a tough pill to swallow, but you still have BOA SA. I only commented because the hyperbole over the "broken" UIL system that comes around every October irritates me to no end and is usually unfounded. If that 22 vote was all that kept Round Rock out of State Marching Contest, then I'd agree that there was a problem.

 

And still missing the point... Let's just agree to disagree at this point... It's not going to change no matter who says what on this forum. It has been reported that most of the Round Rock kids are over it and looking forward to BOA

Now that is class!!!

[Donezo]

  Bandaid1 said:

So What do you think about Anderson? They got robbed by one jugde that gave them a score of 26?

 

3/5 of the judges had them out of finals. Nobody had them in the top 6. It's hard to argue that they were egregiously robbed.

[Bandaid1]

I totally agree that this UIL tournament is over. Everyone should get over it. Congrats to all the schools that made it to the state. In the future don't you all think we need a better scoring system so there is no bad taste in the mouth? At least same guide line for all the judges. That's all I am asking. I apologize if I am asking too much.

[Donezo]

  Bandaid1 said:

I totally agree that this UIL tournament is over. Everyone should get over it. Congrats to all the schools that made it to the state. In the future don't you all think we need a better scoring system so there is no bad taste in the mouth? At least same guide line for all the judges. That's all I am asking. I apologize if I am asking too much.

 

If you figure out a way to create a marching contest format that doesn't make anybody angry, I think you will deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!

[Bandaid1]

  Donezo said:

If you figure out a way to create a marching contest format that doesn't make anybody angry, I think you will deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!

Please give the Nobel Prize BOA because they never have this problem.

[Donezo]

  Bandaid1 said:

Please give the Nobel Prize BOA because they never have this problem.

 

Oh wow. You must be new, because this is very much not the case.

[Drum major]

  Bandaid1 said:

I totally agree that this UIL tournament is over. Everyone should get over it. Congrats to all the schools that made it to the state. In the future don't you all think we need a better scoring system so there is no bad taste in the mouth? At least same guide line for all the judges. That's all I am asking. I apologize if I am asking too much.

 

if u have ever been involved in a debate... That is what exactly is going on here... Only more fun. It would hard to believe that ANYONE would take any of this stuff being said personal...

[Centex_band_mom]

I don't think that UIL is broken and I don't think it's fair to expect the judge's all to have the same or similar scores - maybe more so on music but I don't see how on marching. I know I am a layman but I can watch a marching show and see 2 or 3 problems that the people sitting right next to me don't see (and vice versa). When they see the problems and I watch the show I thought was near perfect back on a video of the show, I see the issues they mentioned but obviously I was watching another area at the time. That is why all of the marching needs to be good and consistent because two people viewing the show don't see the same thing. If it's all good I would imagine less variation in the score. I don't know if that is what happened or not but I think it is too easy to fault the judge unless you know their specific comments and details on what they saw.

 

I also don't agree with equating Westlake performances and scores with UIL Area competition - just because one result happens at one competition doesn't mean it will for another competition and Area is a bigger, more packed competition than Westlake. I heard some very graceful Round Rock people and some not so. One man was claiming that Round Rock had beaten all the bands out there in previous competitions and yet they didn't get to move on. First of all that's not true, but more importantly each competition is a new chance for bands to give their best and maybe the others that made finals really had great performances. Maybe the others marched cleaner or marched and played more. The judges were the only ones who really watched every performance with full attention and I have to believe they cared and were attentive or why else would they be there for 11-12 hours. They all know how hard all these bands and kids work and I don't think they would purposely diminish someone's performance over another without good cause.

 

Anyway, sorry for those with hurt feelings - it feels bad for all those who missed moving on as all have hopes and dreams and believe in their show. Congratulations to bands moving on as well. Hope you have great performances next Tuesday!!

Edited October 29, 2012 by Centex_band_mom

[OverCommittedParent]

  Donezo said:

3/5 of the judges had them out of finals. Nobody had them in the top 6. It's hard to argue that they were egregiously robbed.

 

I also don't personally believe Anderson was egregiously robbed.

 

But I also don't think that's a very high standard for something of this importance to this many people. 3/5ths of the judges in prelims didn't have Lake Travis in the top 6. Would LT have been "egregiously robbed" if there were no finals and LT didn't have the chance to move up in position? No.

 

If the goal is to just make sure that 6 bands make it on to state with a minium of controversy over who those top 6 are, then the system worked reasonably well. There's no band among those who went on that I would say don't deserve their spot.

 

I just think the system should work better than that. And I don't think it's a pipe dream. I don't think such wide variation in what the judges are to look for and assess is accepted in other performance-based competitions.

[TxRaider13]

  Drum major said:

i was actually joking with you that time... my smile face didn't click so here it is

 

 

Just trying to make everyone ease back just a bit, and let it breathe, and maybe give them a few laughs

[scoobydoo]

[Rubisco]

I'm more than a bit surprised that Round Rock didn't make finals. Based on what I've seen and heard, they seemed destined to land near the top. But if you look at the rankings, only 2 judges had them in finals. Was it because they went so early, and the judges simply forgot about them? Did the cold weather create tone quality and/or intonation issues we haven't heard from them before? In any case, I'm still quite confident about their chances at BOA SA. (The same goes for Flower Mound.)

[ch1k3n123]

a point to think about is that the judges could each be judging on their own criteria.

 

One could be judging individual marching, the other ensemble marching. One could be judging overall sound and the other nitpicking intonation issues.

 

The problem with this, however, is that each judge has to be very consistent throughout the whole contest. Whether they were or not I don't know, all I can tell is that Bowie was the universal favorite from the judges.