Whitacre or Tichelli???

[takigan]

EDIT: Holy Heck, this thread is old!

 

but meh.....

 

OCTOBER obviously.....

 

Though I don't think this is a fair contest. You can't compare the raw emotion of a piece like October to another piece that is only emotional because it was actually written for a purpose. Obviously a riveting piece written in honor of a national tragedy is going to win emotion points over a piece that's just moving because it is. Basically, you're giving Whitacre a handicap.....funny thing is, he's still ahead in votes, because his music is just THAT GOOD. He doesn't need to have a purpose behind it. Another thing I've noticed is that all the people voting for Elegy either know the story or have played the piece themselves at some point while they just casually listened to October. Your going to love a really cool piece that you've played before and have a connection with more than a phenomenal piece that you've only heard a couple times (Someone mentioned that October grew on them.....there ya go). Most people who've PLAYED both will [almost unanimously] prefer October.

 

but really, comparing Ticheli to Whitacre is like comparing apples and oranges (or raisins to prunes IMO) anyway. Whitacre writes a lot of mainstream stuff for choir while only dabbling in Wind Literature (mainly transcribing what he's already done for choir)....he's more akin to John Williams. If John Williams wrote a piece exclusively for Wind Symphony it wouldn't be appropriate to compare that piece to the very best thing of a popular Wind composer.....Honestly, I think Williams would still win out in popularity anyway but it just wouldn't be an interesting or fair contest.

[Nancy08]

I can't get the "American Elegy" link to work...I guess cause its really old, but i LOVE October. We played it Sophomore year and its amazing! But I love both composers in general...

[MartinHorn]

After being exposed to both composers more, I would have to say Tichelli.

[mbui]

I highly recommend checking out other pieces by Eric Whitacre not named October. He's written some incredible stuff, especially his chorale works. My all-time favorite symphonic piece of his is Lux Aurumque and my favorite chorale piece of his is Water Night. It's powerful stuff....moreso than October.

[Mog]

I think American Elegy is far superior to October. It's much more melodically driven. Most of Whitacre's works, as pretty as they are, are really just a bunch of beautiful sounding chords thrown together. Well, perhaps "thrown" isn't the best word to use, but you get the point. I mean, I could sit down at a piano and improv stuff that sounds a lot like Whitacre's works, but I couldn't do the same for Ticheli. Thus I appreciate Ticheli's works more.

[Mog]

Oh, btw, why in the world isn't Lux Aurumque up against American Elegy instead of October? Lux is probably Whitacre's prettiest band work.

[takigan]

October is good.....but Lux Aurumque is way better. For fast stuff another good one is Equus, which Langham Creek did at the Honor Band concert at TMEA last year (I didn't like their performance of it, it was way too stiff and the Trumpets didn't soar like they should--lots of Trumpet stuff in there).

 

As for Ticheli, I dunno....I just can't stand a lot of his stuff. Sanctuary is the only work of his I REALLY like. Elegy is ok as his Portrait of a Clown, Vesuvius is meh, Nitro is meh......but I just can't stand his Cajun Folk Songs or especially his more recent Symphony No. 2. S#2 makes him sound like some kind of serialist composer....there's no sense of tonality, lots of pseudo-jazz all over the place (can't stand Wind Symphony Jazz) and he clashes his chords like crazy.....and, I dunno, when I hear a random piece written by Ticheli I can usually tell it's a Ticheli because it's just got that style to it.....and it always reminds me of middle school and it pisses me off (I hated my middle school years).

[takigan]

  Mog said:

Oh, btw, why in the world isn't Lux Aurumque up against American Elegy instead of October? Lux is probably Whitacre's prettiest band work.

That was the first thing I thought when I saw this thread. I actually went over to EW's site to see if he had Lux still on there, but he's locked away most of his media for some reason.

 

You can find it on Limewire though.

[serendipity]

  takigan said:

October is good.....but Lux Aurumque is way better. For fast stuff another good one is Equus, which Langham Creek did at the Honor Band concert at TMEA last year (I didn't like their performance of it, it was way too stiff and the Trumpets didn't soar like they should--lots of Trumpet stuff in there).

 

wow, i was really surprised to see that comment, having seen it myself, i was totally blown away by langham's performance of Equus. I may be wrong, but i think they are the only highschool band to ever attempt that piece as of right now?

anyways, i found it on youtube if anyones interested:

 

but yes. whitacre over tichelli, hands down.

[GuitarJoe]

"and, I dunno, when I hear a random piece written by Ticheli I can usually tell it's a Ticheli because it's just got that style to it"

 

 

The same can be said about Whitacre. While I agree that he writes some incredibly beautiful pieces, a lot of his stuff all sounds the same to me, atleast with his slow, lyrical songs. Listen for about 5 seconds and you instantly know it's him. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. The way he writes is just unmistakable.

 

I lean more towards Ticheli as a composer, mostly because I've played more of his pieces. And he always writes good sax parts, so being a sax player myself, he gets bonus points for that.

[borchnork]

well, of course every composer has their own writting style that's easily identifiable (ex: bach and his big organ music, or dvorak and his insane string parts). that's what keeps fans coming back.

 

I do agree that a lot of what Ticheli has written lately his kinda going down-hill. I'm not so much against his useage (or apparent useage) of serialism, cus I'm actually quite a fan of that form of composition, but after a while, it does seem a little middle school esque to me as well.

[takigan]

  serendipity said:

wow, i was really surprised to see that comment, having seen it myself, i was totally blown away by langham's performance of Equus. I may be wrong, but i think they are the only highschool band to ever attempt that piece as of right now?

anyways, i found it on youtube if anyones interested:

 

but yes. whitacre over tichelli, hands down.

0:01 - First of all it's too fast

 

0:35 - Trombones are way too long......needs to "bounce" more....kind of like a jig

 

1:04 - 1:16 - Clarinets are rushing

 

1:35 - 1:48 - Needs more Tuba and String/electric bass (if they're using it) and less woodwinds, which are playing too long and not dance-like enough (this could have been executed better if the conductor had chosen a slower tempo)

 

2:24 - 2:27 Really bad way to end this phrase....Clarinets "averaged out" the rhythm and didn't play the right pulse.

 

2:33 - 2:38 - Brass turns are way too long....should be more expressive and dance-like again

 

2:40- - 2:47 - Woodwinds are too loud, can't hear the Euphonium part at all....the bell and Euphoniums play together on the echo beats to create a nice color effect, the effect is lost since you can't hear the Euphonium

 

2:52 - 3:14 - What I can't stand about this part is that its sounds like the same thing over and over (Trumpets are playing too loud for starters)....Bass Trombone and Trombone in general as well as Tuba needs to be much heavier and bombastic to create the desired rhythmic effect sought...

 

3:15- 3:32 - I liked this part.....and the oboe solo was very nice (sorry...just trying not to sound too cynical about this whole bit)

 

3:39 - 3:47 - Wrong Trumpet rhythm entirely.....the build effect was well done though

 

3:46 - Really could have used a gong crash here.

 

4:02 - Triplets crushed together

 

4:12 - 4:20 - Good Trombone and Horns

 

4:40 - Whale calls sounded good....a bit abrupt but good

 

5:18 - Aesthetically speaking this should slow down [more] dramatically

 

6:05 - Trumpet hit too long

 

6:19 - Good Trumpet Triplets

 

6:26 - 6:37 - Awesome job by the Low Brass

 

6:42 - Principal Trumpet needs to soar here....I don't hear his part hardly at all

 

6:51 - 7:06 - Awesome melody line

 

7:08 - 7:12 - This is supposed to be primarily Trumpets.....rest of the band needs to back off on the long notes

 

7:29 - 7:34 - Good job Trumpet Triplets

 

8:24 - LOVED the last chord.....most other recordings I've heard ended the piece too abruptly.....holding the note out just a split second longer was a nice effect....

 

So yeah......overall the piece just didn't dance enough.....The piece is supposed to represent a horse running (or I like to imagine a horse race) with the quick brisk melody line representing a horse's gallop.....these notes have to be played really short to get that kind of effect and I heard very little of that at all by this band which really ruins the whole effect for me.

 

This is probably my favorite technical band piece ever....so I'm very critical of the performances of it.....especially a performance by a band as well renowned as Langham. The piece was played very precisely considering it's difficulty (time changed out the wazoo) which is a characteristic well represented of Langham (they're all about precision).

[borchnork]

  takigan said:

0:01 - First of all it's too fast

 

0:35 - Trombones are way too long......needs to "bounce" more....kind of like a jig

 

1:04 - 1:16 - Clarinets are rushing

 

1:35 - 1:48 - Needs more Tuba and String/electric bass (if they're using it) and less woodwinds, which are playing too long and not dance-like enough (this could have been executed better if the conductor had chosen a slower tempo)

 

2:24 - 2:27 Really bad way to end this phrase....Clarinets "averaged out" the rhythm and didn't play the right pulse.

 

2:33 - 2:38 - Brass turns are way too long....should be more expressive and dance-like again

 

2:40- - 2:47 - Woodwinds are too loud, can't hear the Euphonium part at all....the bell and Euphoniums play together on the echo beats to create a nice color effect, the effect is lost since you can't hear the Euphonium

 

2:52 - 3:14 - What I can't stand about this part is that its sounds like the same thing over and over (Trumpets are playing too loud for starters)....Bass Trombone and Trombone in general as well as Tuba needs to be much heavier and bombastic to create the desired rhythmic effect sought...

 

3:15- 3:32 - I liked this part.....and the oboe solo was very nice (sorry...just trying not to sound too cynical about this whole bit)

 

3:39 - 3:47 - Wrong Trumpet rhythm entirely.....the build effect was well done though

 

3:46 - Really could have used a gong crash here.

 

4:02 - Triplets crushed together

 

4:12 - 4:20 - Good Trombone and Horns

 

4:40 - Whale calls sounded good....a bit abrupt but good

 

5:18 - Aesthetically speaking this should slow down [more] dramatically

 

6:05 - Trumpet hit too long

 

6:19 - Good Trumpet Triplets

 

6:26 - 6:37 - Awesome job by the Low Brass

 

6:42 - Principal Trumpet needs to soar here....I don't hear his part hardly at all

 

6:51 - 7:06 - Awesome melody line

 

7:08 - 7:12 - This is supposed to be primarily Trumpets.....rest of the band needs to back off on the long notes

 

7:29 - 7:34 - Good job Trumpet Triplets

 

8:24 - LOVED the last chord.....most other recordings I've heard ended the piece too abruptly.....holding the note out just a split second longer was a nice effect....

Hahah, that's really horrible that you found all those mistakes.

 

I haven't heard the piece from beginning to end yet, but I've been saving up money to buy all of Whitacres C.d.'s.

[serendipity]

those "mistakes" are purely opinionative , just as how impressed i was is purely my own opinion.

though, im sure, if whitacre was there he would have been proud of the the way a highschool band could play that piece so maturely.

They definatly did not sound like a highschool band.

Whitacre's "Equus" is why i prefer him over tichelli. Its just such a complex, yet exciting piece.

[takigan]

  serendipity said:

those "mistakes" are purely opinionative , just as how impressed i was is purely my own opinion.

though, im sure, if whitacre was there he would have been proud of the the way a highschool band could play that piece so maturely.

They definatly did not sound like a highschool band.

Whitacre's "Equus" is why i prefer him over tichelli. Its just such a complex, yet exciting piece.

The piece was played with incredible rhythmic precision, uncanny intonation, excellent balance and dead-on uniformity of style between all sections. A level of playing beyond that of a typical HS band, and definitely worthy of an Honor Band.

 

However they still "sound" like a HS band, particulary a Texas High school band that's playing for a UIL Wind Band contest. It all just sounds so stiff and monotonous.....like a well-tuned machine that can only perform a single function over and over. And it's nothing against Langham, I've noticed the same thing when I gone back and listened to my own HS band after entering college....everything is so dead-on, so insanely accurate, even more precise than the bands I've played in and listened to in college.....but it's still kids playing it, and the level of maturity to create that same level of "musicality" and "interpretation" is not there.

 

My biggest complaint with the piece is that it's stiff and dead-sounding.....maybe this is because every other recording I've heard has been done by high level ensembles that breath an incredible amount of life into this piece.

 

And yes, Whitacre would have been proud....a shame he couldn't make it to the convention that year.

[serendipity]

even with the professional recordings of this piece i have heard, this recording is still one of the best ive listened to (the recording refrencing the professional recording i purchased after their concert, not the version via youtube.). this ensemble has nothing remotley resembling a "stiff", or "dead" sound (in my opinion). i love mcadows interpretation, and the maturity of this band in my opinion, is far beyond that of a highschool band.

but like i said. its all opinion. no need to get offensive.

 

haha, i think i said opinion wayyyyy to much x_x

[crazyjakeup]

i'll go with tichelli for three reasons: reason #1 tichelli was a band director at lakeview centenial high school (its 6 miles away in my district)... reason #2 i always get solos with tichelli's stuff and never with whitacre... reason #3 eric looks like a panzee.lol...