BOA conroe Regional

[~ME~]

Annnnnnnd yep, once again BOA San Antonio looks like it is going to be as unpredictable as usual. I've got nothing. I'm sorry to go off topic here temporarily, but for several years Marcus and Bell dominated it, and last year The Woodlands was the heavy favorite to win. This is the first year I TRULY feel like I have absolutely no idea who the heck is going to win at SA, and I love it. Now on to Conroe:

 

Johnson sweeping the captions and going on to win their first BOA regional over the defending national champions (and by a significantly large margin) was quite the shocker. Hats off to them, I can only imagine how excited they are. This will definitely be a momentum builder for them for the rest of the season. They might have the best chance at getting a medal at BOA SA they've had so far.

 

But on the other hand, The Woodlands won prelims as most would have expected. I would say they are a bit weaker than they were last year show design-wise, but that's not exactly saying much is it? Yeah no, they're still incredible. They have some work to do, but boy will they be good by November.

 

And whoa! How about College Park? I wouldn't be surprised to see them performing in front of a finals crowd at the Alamodome sometime soon. What a strong showing from them!

[Parkwoodmom]

Would not count out The Woodlands just yet.....after a strong prelims, their finals performance was just.....lacking energy, lacking a prop, electronics malfunction......just really "off".  Love their show design.  That said, CTJ came out roaring!!!  They really wanted it, and it was well deserved!!  The quality of the bands in finals was mind-blowing!.  Congrats to all on a very enjoyable evening!!

[Astros]

  On 10/12/2014 at 6:12 AM, Jbl3770 said:

one heck of a night - was blown away by the quality of shows in the finals in Conroe - they might as well make the San Antonio Super Regional the Grand Nats. As I stated earlier - CTJ show has the potential to be huge for them this year and the growth potential is huge. 

I stuck around to see the encore performance - Hats off to the Woodlands HS for filling the stands and cheering for CTJ - true class organization.

 

great shows by all - 

I never like to root for favorites. That being said you nailed it. People from The Woodlands do have class. Woodlands high school band is able to achieve at an incredible level and remain humble. What ya great example for all bands.

[Rubisco]

Hahaha. Well, I'd probably want to be in the stands for the encore to see what upset/dominated me in finals by 3 points, too. I was out of town for this regional, so I have no idea what happened, but the score gaps and the extreme score reversal (The Woodlands was first by over a point in prelims with their two captions) are really, really strange. The judges also seemed to rein in the score inflation we've seen from the previous two regionals. Reagan's score dropped two points from what it was two weeks ago at the Austin regional. As I said on the BOA forums, I would guess a combination of three things: a.) weird judging b.) weak Woodlands performance c.) strong CTJ performance. Based on some of the comments, that seems to be exactly what happened. I'll have to watch both prelims and finals videos to be sure. This makes San Antonio predictions very tricky. I saw The Woodlands' show (not at BOA), and I feel quite strongly it will be in the top 3 by San Antonio. I might have to add CTJ to that top 3 as well, which could knock out TW, Hebron, or Marcus.

[Rubisco]

Oh, also, TW received a .3 point penalty in finals for some reason. Not that that would have saved them...

[Jbl3770]

  On 10/12/2014 at 8:12 PM, Rubisco said:

Hahaha. Well, I'd probably want to be in the stands for the encore to see what upset/dominated me in finals by 3 points, too. I was out of town for this regional, so I have no idea what happened, but the score gaps and the extreme score reversal (The Woodlands was first by over a point in prelims with their two captions) are really, really strange. The judges also seemed to rein in the score inflation we've seen from the previous two regionals. Reagan's score dropped two points from what it was two weeks ago at the Austin regional. As I said on the BOA forums, I would guess a combination of three things: a.) weird judging b.) weak Woodlands performance c.) strong CTJ performance. Based on some of the comments, that seems to be exactly what happened. I'll have to watch both prelims and finals videos to be sure. This makes San Antonio predictions very tricky. I saw The Woodlands' show (not at BOA), and I feel quite strongly it will be in the top 3 by San Antonio. I might have to add CTJ to that top 3 as well, which could knock out TW, Hebron, or Marcus.

Really????? - so the class shown by the Woodlands HS - both in inviting CTJ to their campus to hang out after prelims and in watching and cheering for their encore performance is just "learning about the competition? and based on your comments the CTJ leadership should go back to their kids on Tuesday and tell them.... Congrats .. you have just won multiple caption awards for the first time in your 7 year history, you just swept finals captions for the first time ever, you just won your first BOA regional championship - don't be too excited because per your comments - it was "weird judging" and the "Woodlands had a week performance" - so don't expect this again????? get over yourself. CTJ and many others had to deal with the "weird judging" in the last San Antonio Super Regional when after prelims Hebron placed 1st and CTJ second and Marcus 3rd. the finals saw CTJ drop 1.25 points and Woodlands jump nearly 2.5 points - knocking CTJ and Marcus out of medals - I stand behind what I saw from the Woodlands - class act that supported a band that beat them - their cheers and support and Twitter/instagram feeds on the encore performance by Woodlands members leads me to believe it was genuine - and just what marching band and the spirit of competition is all about. Do not belittle what was accomplished yesterday with your idea of competition. 

[Jbl3770]

  On 10/12/2014 at 8:13 PM, Rubisco said:

Oh, also, TW received a .3 point penalty in finals for some reason. Not that that would have saved them...

mott point - and should not be mentioned - as this would have left them with a 2.45 win rather than a 2.75 win.

[Jbl3770]

  On 10/12/2014 at 2:15 PM, Alvin said:

Would not count out The Woodlands just yet.....after a strong prelims, their finals performance was just.....lacking energy, lacking a prop, electronics malfunction......just really "off".  Love their show design.  That said, CTJ came out roaring!!!  They really wanted it, and it was well deserved!!  The quality of the bands in finals was mind-blowing!.  Congrats to all on a very enjoyable evening!!

Never counted out - they did not win "the Eagle" by chance - they will certainly be a factor in San Antonio and I am looking forward to what their final show looks like

[Rubisco]

The going into the stands thing was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but I stand by everything else I said. It's what the sheets strongly imply. I'll decide for myself whether it's true when I see the videos. Anyway, I strongly suggest you get used to people saying things you disagree with. Otherwise, when you grow up, you'll be very disappointed.

[Rubisco]

I would also like to point out a little reading mis-comprehension on your part. When I say things like, such and such result is based on a combo of these three things, I'm not just talking about Band A beating Band B. In this case, I'm referring to Band A beating Band B by 3 points. If both CTJ and TW gave amazing finals performances, I still think CTJ could have easily come out on top. In fact, I predicted as much, if you take a look a few posts earlier. I just don't think the score difference would be so great.

[Jbl3770]

  On 10/13/2014 at 1:28 AM, Rubisco said:

The going into the stands thing was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but I stand by everything else I said. It's what the sheets strongly imply. I'll decide for myself whether it's true when I see the videos. Anyway, I strongly suggest you get used to people saying things you disagree with. Otherwise, when you grow up, you'll be very disappointed.

who the heck are you that you are "going to decide when you see the video" - because you obviously know more than the professional judges that were paid to be there?   - and for the record -  I have been grown up for a long time and have no problem hearing things I don't agree with - but you appear to think you are smarter than everyone else and missing the whole point that these programs promote. they are to promote growth and your comments are negative and slanted. maybe you need to learn to deal with things  you don't like to hear.

[Jbl3770]

  On 10/13/2014 at 1:41 AM, Rubisco said:

I would also like to point out a little reading mis-comprehension on your part. When I say things like, such and such result is based on a combo of these three things, I'm not just talking about Band A beating Band B. In this case, I'm referring to Band A beating Band B by 3 points. If both CTJ and TW gave amazing finals performances, I still think CTJ could have easily come out on top. In fact, I predicted as much, if you take a look a few posts earlier. I just don't think the score difference would be so great.

I did not mis-comprehend - my issue was that you stated 3 options as to why CTJ won last night - the first 2 where based on bad judges and bad TW performances - the last option was a great performance by CTJ. as I have stated, the goal of this site is to promote the music performance agenda - and that should never degrade what is accomplished by those that have succeeded - CTJ deserved last night's win. 

[Rubisco]

I can see no amount of reason will sway you. You really didn't have to pie yourself in the face, though, by admitting that you're a grown up. Be happy for your child's program and move on. I am done here.

[DSS1588]

  On 10/12/2014 at 8:12 PM, Rubisco said:

Hahaha. Well, I'd probably want to be in the stands for the encore to see what upset/dominated me in finals by 3 points, too. I was out of town for this regional, so I have no idea what happened, but the score gaps and the extreme score reversal (The Woodlands was first by over a point in prelims with their two captions) are really, really strange. The judges also seemed to rein in the score inflation we've seen from the previous two regionals. Reagan's score dropped two points from what it was two weeks ago at the Austin regional. As I said on the BOA forums, I would guess a combination of three things: a.) weird judging b.) weak Woodlands performance c.) strong CTJ performance. Based on some of the comments, that seems to be exactly what happened. I'll have to watch both prelims and finals videos to be sure. This makes San Antonio predictions very tricky. I saw The Woodlands' show (not at BOA), and I feel quite strongly it will be in the top 3 by San Antonio. I might have to add CTJ to that top 3 as well, which could knock out TW, Hebron, or Marcus.

Rubisco, I strongly recommend that you don't judge based on video replays. Especially those low definition videos captured by Mr Video or the ones made available via their streaming service. They do not do any of the bands performing justice and BOA really should consider getting another service provider.

 

Also earlier this year you made the comment below.

 

#6 2014 Marching Shows: post #6 Rubisco

Advanced Member

 

Posted 22 August 2014 - 09:32 PM

Just saw the "trailer" for CTJ's show. It's called Chameleon. Wagner's Tannhauser Overture plays in the background. I'm not sure if that means they're playing it, but it's a strong possibility. It looks like they have some strange stack of neon orange and blue boxes in the middle of the field that band members can stand on. Looks like something that dropped out of cyberspace. I wonder if they change colors. That would be appropriate.

 

Great call there! No Wagner. No cyberspace. No boxes that change color.

 

You should really consider refraining from making judgments at a distance.

 

Tannhauser was selected as music for this year's trailer because of a parallel story line with the band program.

 

In Tannhauser the story is set at a music contest and centers on Tannhauser's struggle between sacred and profane love, and his redemption through his expression of love for Elizabeth followed by God's forgiveness for choosing sacred love.

 

Within the CTJ band program there also exists a real struggle between BOA and UIL performances as it relates to rules, judging, and entertainment factor for those of us that have to purchase tickets. The struggle to please one group over another causes confusion and unneeded stress and often results in disappointment by the band members even when they have given everything they have.

 

Before every finals performance the CTJ band directors tell their students to be who they are and to have fun. There are no last minute run throughs. The kids warm up and then go out and have fun. Being able to express themselves fully on the field is their "sacred love" and the emotion it evokes from the audience is their redemption and reward. Sometimes even the judges are moved.

 

This year, thanks to the creativity of the staff and the leadership within the band, they were able to keep the momentum and grow from past year's success in marching, concert band, and all-state seasons.

 

It's too bad you were not there on Saturday you missed a lot of great performances. I even cut short a two week business trip in Hawaii just to be there for this event. Being from Houston there was no way that I was going to miss both Houston and San Antonio bands performing.

 

As a heads up next year's CTJ trailer is going to be Baba Yaga and the Gates of Kiev. There is a story behind that but I will explain that next year if needed.

 

And no, I doubt we will be playing Mussorgsky and we will not be traveling to Dallas next spring to get the Golden Gates that were used by Marcus in 2012.

 

I hope you can make it to the super regional next month. It should be full of great performances by all schools involved.

[mellopwn1]

Okay, cut Rubisco some slack. He was not being "skeptical" or "negative" with his explanation. He is seeking a reasonable explanation for the three point swing between prelims and finals -- that's a big deal, and wacky judging has happened before. It seems like TW had somewhat of a lackluster performance and CTJ had an outstanding one, which basically explains it. Rubisco is just trying to account for this, no malice intended. CALM DOWN EVERYONE!!!!

 

Besides, Rubisco knows what he's talking about when it comes to marching band.

[DSS1588]

His comments were out of line not just for the woodlands and CTJ but for every other band that also performed this past weekend.

 

The Woodlands were not lackluster. They put on a great performance. The sound and dynamics were incredible and are the envy of many band programs across the country.

 

Apparently they did not live up to your or Rubisco's standards. You two should probably take that up with their band director instead of communicating your displeasure on this forum.

 

If knowledge of marching shows is dependent upon how many times you comment on this site then I admit that my two posts show that I do not know as much about marching band compared to you (290 posts) or Rubisco (180 posts). Jbl3770 only has 15 posts so according to your logic he or she must also be an amateur compared to Rubisco.

 

That said I do know the difference between UIL and BOA shows. One evokes emotion, tells a story, conveys meaning, and if it connects with you can give you chills. The other, not so much.

 

I am sorry you did not get that connection with The Woodlands Saturday night.

[takigan]

  On 10/12/2014 at 8:12 PM, Rubisco said:

Hahaha. Well, I'd probably want to be in the stands for the encore to see what upset/dominated me in finals by 3 points, too. I was out of town for this regional, so I have no idea what happened, but the score gaps and the extreme score reversal (The Woodlands was first by over a point in prelims with their two captions) are really, really strange. The judges also seemed to rein in the score inflation we've seen from the previous two regionals. Reagan's score dropped two points from what it was two weeks ago at the Austin regional. As I said on the BOA forums, I would guess a combination of three things: a.) weird judging b.) weak Woodlands performance c.) strong CTJ performance. Based on some of the comments, that seems to be exactly what happened. I'll have to watch both prelims and finals videos to be sure. This makes San Antonio predictions very tricky. I saw The Woodlands' show (not at BOA), and I feel quite strongly it will be in the top 3 by San Antonio. I might have to add CTJ to that top 3 as well, which could knock out TW, Hebron, or Marcus.

 

The first sentence is a little bit presumptuous. Being a part of this activity for so long, we forget that many of these kids (especially freshman) don't really understand the logistics at all until after they've done it for a few years.  I think the drum majors and the junior and senior leadership probably expressed puzzlement at the scores, but most of the band just wanted to see who they lost to, and gladly cheered them on in humility.  Aside from that, I see this post as nothing more than a simple rebuke of the system, an expression of puzzlement and an admission of ignorance until you've obtained all the facts. Nothing worth getting worked up over.

 

Also, different time, different panel, different atmosphere.  I think even the restaurant the band ate at can have a pretty drastic effect on performance, as heavy food will slow you down.

 

  On 10/13/2014 at 1:14 AM, Jbl3770 said:

Really????? - so the class shown by the Woodlands HS - both in inviting CTJ to their campus to hang out after prelims and in watching and cheering for their encore performance is just "learning about the competition? and based on your comments the CTJ leadership should go back to their kids on Tuesday and tell them.... Congrats .. you have just won multiple caption awards for the first time in your 7 year history, you just swept finals captions for the first time ever, you just won your first BOA regional championship - don't be too excited because per your comments - it was "weird judging" and the "Woodlands had a week performance" - so don't expect this again????? get over yourself. CTJ and many others had to deal with the "weird judging" in the last San Antonio Super Regional when after prelims Hebron placed 1st and CTJ second and Marcus 3rd. the finals saw CTJ drop 1.25 points and Woodlands jump nearly 2.5 points - knocking CTJ and Marcus out of medals - I stand behind what I saw from the Woodlands - class act that supported a band that beat them - their cheers and support and Twitter/instagram feeds on the encore performance by Woodlands members leads me to believe it was genuine - and just what marching band and the spirit of competition is all about. Do not belittle what was accomplished yesterday with your idea of competition. 

 

I would agree that I believe TWHS wouldn't be that obsessed with winning that something like "checking out the competition" would even cross their mind.  But I can see why Rubisco would think the way he does. I didn't expect CTJ to win either beforehand, but seeing both bands side by side (literally, they went on one after the other in finals) made it clear to 6 out of 7 judges that Johnson really did have the superior run.  I definitely felt like Johnson would win Music GE....plus when you look at the recaps and realize how much that category is weighted, a modest lead in that category can produce a much less modest (ie. BIG) gap in score. I think Rubisco will understand why CTJ won (answer: they played and marched better in Finals) once he's seen the videos.

 

But I really don't understand why you're so angry and why you feel so offended and disenfranchised by someone else's opinion on this.  You really are overreacting.  Someone's comment on the internet doesn't really have any value on its own, so it can't really devalue the accomplishments of anyone or anything.  There's a difference between being pessimistic and slanderous. 

 

  On 10/13/2014 at 1:28 AM, Rubisco said:

The going into the stands thing was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but I stand by everything else I said. It's what the sheets strongly imply. I'll decide for myself whether it's true when I see the videos. Anyway, I strongly suggest you get used to people saying things you disagree with. Otherwise, when you grow up, you'll be very disappointed.

 

The "grow up" comment was over the line...not to say it wasn't warranted by JBL's comment of "get over yourself", only your comment was not only negative, it was also condescending.

 

  On 10/13/2014 at 1:41 AM, Rubisco said:

I would also like to point out a little reading mis-comprehension on your part. When I say things like, such and such result is based on a combo of these three things, I'm not just talking about Band A beating Band B. In this case, I'm referring to Band A beating Band B by 3 points. If both CTJ and TW gave amazing finals performances, I still think CTJ could have easily come out on top. In fact, I predicted as much, if you take a look a few posts earlier. I just don't think the score difference would be so great.

 

What a lot of people don't realize is that score doesn't really tell the story of how much better a band is than another band.  A nearly 2 point differential can be created simply by all 7 judges agreeing that Band A was only .25 points or "a little better" than Band B in their respective captions...seeing the 2 bands in question side by side can create this perception.  And really, when you consider how heavily weighted Music GE is, an even bigger score gap can be created by that same assumption, and amplified even further by a rogue judge in the Music GE category using a wide spread.  2 whole points makes it look like Band A "DOMINATED" Band B, but in reality the difference was only a little under 3 tenths of a point....multiplied by 7 judges who all thought the same way.

 

 

  Quote

who the heck are you that you are "going to decide when you see the video" - because you obviously know more than the professional judges that were paid to be there?   - and for the record -  I have been grown up for a long time and have no problem hearing things I don't agree with - but you appear to think you are smarter than everyone else and missing the whole point that these programs promote. they are to promote growth and your comments are negative and slanted. maybe you need to learn to deal with things  you don't like to hear.

 

Would you really not be willing to admit that a band (CTJ) might have won simply because their competition (TWHS) didn't perform at their maximum capability in a single finals run-through?  Have you seen Bell's 2008 Semis and Finals performances at nationals?  Their finals performance was bad enough (relative to what they showed they were capable of in semis), most people still refer to the Semis recording as the definitive performance for that year, despite in 99% of other cases the finals performance is the one everybody watches. It cost them the music caption.  You seem to think Rubisco's comments are along the lines of: "Oh, well the Woodlands wasn't even trying, so CTJ shouldn't be all excited about winning because they didn't deserve it, and I'll prove it once I see the videos because I'm smarter than everyone else"....because I don't think that's even remotely close to what he's saying at all.  I think he's reserving judgment until he has all the facts, and can only go by what he knows and understands, which is previous history which has caused suspicion to arouse within him....which ultimately doesn't matter and isn't really worth freaking out over anyway.

 

  On 10/13/2014 at 2:10 AM, Jbl3770 said:

I did not mis-comprehend - my issue was that you stated 3 options as to why CTJ won last night - the first 2 where based on bad judges and bad TW performances - the last option was a great performance by CTJ. as I have stated, the goal of this site is to promote the music performance agenda - and that should never degrade what is accomplished by those that have succeeded - CTJ deserved last night's win. 

 

Why can't it be bad judges (or not necessarily bad judges, but an imperfect system with imperfect people)?  Why can't TW have a bad performance?  Everyone has them.  Does everything have to be roses and sunshine so that the third option is the only possible/appropriate answer?  I don't see how feeling suspicious of a system (especially when you have evidence for it), being skeptical of a band giving its best performance (especially when that band is an Eagle defender) yet being willing to admit that since you weren't there you can't say for certain about anything, is somehow equivalent to slander and trashing a band's successes.  

 

That's where I feel that you're overreacting, and it's these attacks and Rubisco's willingness to retaliate towards them starting a mini flame war, that I've made the decision to lock this thread.