Hebron Semifinals Scores (CONGRATS!)

[LKendrick]

Huge congrats to Hebron on the nationals trip this year.  Looking at the recaps, what they did in semifinals is nothing short of amazing.  

 

They should be INCREDIBLY proud of what they did in semifinals. They were first in semis with a 97.85 (highest score ever?) a 59.5 in GE (.5 from perfect and a 19.9/20 form one judge) and a 19.6 in music. Geez. Those kinds of numbers don't just happen, you have to really be special to get those kinds of scores.  Regardless of what happened in finals with the slot, what they did in semifinals, geez.  Congrats to them, and of course the other Texas bands!  

[whitewing09]

They also have amazing music scores in finals! It's SUCH a shame that two judges VPI and VGE really sealed their fate. 

[justabandkid94]

man that's heartbreaking. Still, what an unbelievably special year Hebron!! I can guarantee you your performance will be talked about for years to come regardless of placement. Unreal display of raw talent

[Xenon]

Hebron had a 97.85 in semis. That is the highest score in BOA history on any level. It beats 2007 LD Bell's semis pre-penalty 97.80 and 2008 Avon's Finals 97.75.

 

And they got that 97.85 with a low 17.7 in individual visual. Incredible.

[snares]

Here's something else for you, out of the twelve music judges (four in prelims, four in semis, four in finals), one judge had Hebron in second. ELEVEN OUT OF TWELVE had them in first. That is absolutely insane. This includes a 19.9 and a few 19.8s. And that second place was just .1 behind Avon. Andy Sealy has officially created one of the best music schools in the country. I'm so pumped for state next year, Marcus and Hebron battling for either a 1st state title, or a 7th straight title. Here we go.

[dylan123]

until next year marching band

[NTXBandFan]

  On 11/15/2015 at 7:24 PM, SnareSnare13 said:

Here's something else for you, out of the twelve music judges (four in prelims, four in semis, four in finals), one judge had Hebron in second. ELEVEN OUT OF TWELVE had them in first. That is absolutely insane. This includes a 19.9 and a few 19.8s. And that second place was just .1 behind Avon. Andy Sealy has officially created one of the best music schools in the country. I'm so pumped for state next year, Marcus and Hebron battling for either a 1st state title, or a 7th straight title. Here we go.

Don't forget Flower Mound in that equation.  While they haven't been been considered the same level musically as the other two, they have taken the music caption over them a few times this year.

[Xenon]

Marcus currently has 5 consecutive state titles (a full decade), not 6.

[snares]

  On 11/16/2015 at 5:42 PM, Xenon said:

Marcus currently has 5 consecutive state titles (a full decade), not 6.

Whoopsie!

Anyone think a Lewisville ISD UIL sweep is in the slow cooker?

[HerroWon]

Anyone else feel like Hebron's preformance time in finals also kept them from winning in finals? I mean I know it's a new set of judges and all but how do you drop 1.6 points in 4-5 hours? I had the privilege of witnessing both semis and finals performances from the stands and Hebron's finals run seemed so much cleaner visually and musically they were just flawless. BA really stepped it up in finals but I wasn't expecting the gap between them to be over a whole point! The preformance time must have played a factor in Hebron's low visual score which is what cost them the Eagle.

[LKendrick]

  On 11/17/2015 at 3:46 AM, HerroWon said:

Anyone else feel like Hebron's preformance time in finals also kept them from winning in finals? I mean I know it's a new set of judges and all but how do you drop 1.6 points in 4-5 hours? I had the privilege of witnessing both semis and finals performances from the stands and Hebron's finals run seemed so much cleaner visually and musically they were just flawless. BA really stepped it up in finals but I wasn't expecting the gap between them to be over a whole point! The preformance time must have played a factor in Hebron's low visual score which is what cost them the Eagle.

 

I mean it definitely didn't help any, I'm not going to say for sure one way or the other.  But when you look at the history of correlations between champions and runner ups with the performance slots, it's HEAVILY bands that go in the last few.  

 

I'm definitely in favor of a top 6/bottom 6 each randomized performance order like the regionals do.  I think it'd help get rid of major flops and drops like that.  

[principalagent]

I would put money on Hebron grabbing at least one perfect 20 from a music judge if they went after Avon, Mason and Broken Arrow. And that they wouldn't have won the music caption by just .1.

[knoxisawesome348]

I agree in that the scores would've been closer had Hebron performed right after Broken Arrow, but I think it's a stretch to think the same panel of judges would've bumped them 1.3 points to win from performance order alone. Music scores would've probably opened like principalagent said, visual scores maybe made a big tighter, but I think the best they could've hoped for is beating Avon - or at least gotten really really close. It also didn't help that some of the same judges that judged prelims ended up judging finals IN THE SAME CAPTION (i.e. the visual GE judge who basically sealed Hebron's fate). Why not shift them around like at regular regionals? 

[Rubisco]

I don't think Hebron (or any TX band) would have won, even if they had performed last. I do agree that their music performance gap probably would have been wider, if the judges were given a direct comparison, because BA definitely didn't sound almost as good as Hebron. But again, I don't think it would have made up for the visual package, where I think Avon and BA were clearly superior -- more so than Hebron was superior to them in music. Starting around William Mason, it struck me that the visual was probably going to "do them in" in finals, if placing 3rd in the country can really be called that. I also started thinking about Texas groups in general and their "packages" (heh). Something that Midwesterners really like to talk up is how far behind Texas is in design-related elements (and in color guard, which should be obvious). I don't think this is anywhere near as true as it used to be, but I can acknowledge that it's still probably true that only a couple of Texas groups have put out shows in recent years that were good enough to take home the country's most prestigious marching band trophy. In other words, I think there's room to grow, even at the top.

[NTXBandFan]

  On 11/17/2015 at 9:01 AM, Rubisco said:

I don't think Hebron (or any TX band) would have won, even if they had performed last. I do agree that their music performance gap probably would have been wider, if the judges were given a direct comparison, because BA definitely didn't sound almost as good as Hebron. But again, I don't think it would have made up for the visual package, where I think Avon and BA were clearly superior -- more so than Hebron was superior to them in music. Starting around William Mason, it struck me that the visual was probably going to "do them in" in finals, if placing 3rd in the country can really be called that. I also started thinking about Texas groups in general and their "packages" (heh). Something that Midwesterners really like to talk up is how far behind Texas is in design-related elements (and in color guard, which should be obvious). I don't think this is anywhere near as true as it used to be, but I can acknowledge that it's still probably true that only a couple of Texas groups have put out shows in recent years that were good enough to take home the country's most prestigious marching band trophy. In other words, I think there's room to grow, even at the top.

The goal Flower Mound had going to Grand Nats last year, and has carried forward to this year, was to sound like a Texas band, but look like a midwest band.  Basically they wanted to combine the best of both worlds.  Watching their progression over the last several years, they definitely have been doing that.  Their sound is getting louder for one, like that big Texas brass we all know and love.  The musicianship is there too.  I think they had the 2nd most All-State qualifiers last year.  They also started more varied movements as well as speed to their marching last year.  Then of course the visual design has really improved too.

[principalagent]

I think a visual caption will come to Texas sooner rather than later. With some of the bands confirmed and rumored to attend next year, it could be next year (but I won't hold my breath, yet).

[whitewing09]

  On 11/17/2015 at 3:46 AM, HerroWon said:

Anyone else feel like Hebron's preformance time in finals also kept them from winning in finals? I mean I know it's a new set of judges and all but how do you drop 1.6 points in 4-5 hours? I had the privilege of witnessing both semis and finals performances from the stands and Hebron's finals run seemed so much cleaner visually and musically they were just flawless. BA really stepped it up in finals but I wasn't expecting the gap between them to be over a whole point! The preformance time must have played a factor in Hebron's low visual score which is what cost them the Eagle.

 

Obviously I have no real clue what I'm talking about because I wasn't in the judges' heads that night, but I think this is definitely the case. I do agree that Hebron was behind visually, but I also think they were pretty far ahead in music.

 

Here's what I think happens if the top band of any captions goes first: the judges acknowledge the band's superiority by placing them first, but then the judges may lose an idea of how much better the top band was, so they don't reward that band with as much of a marginal lead as they maybe should. While the design of Avon and Broken Arrow are pretty good, I still think that Hebron was very far ahead of them in terms of execution and besides the fact that Hebron's show is also a pretty effective musical book, their playing (OMG) added so much effect. I remember listening and thinking, "holy ****, that technicality + precision + emotion" re: the woodwind runs in Pegasus, or the emotion in the ballad, ok or any other part of their impressive show. I never got the same feeling from BA or Avon music. Their performances were very good, don't get me wrong.

 

Then you see Hebron's visual scores and it definitely look like they were just forgotten. For example the scoring difference between them and the other top bands in terms of VPI was a bit excessive, imo. Then that difference in VGE was devastating. I know nothing about VGE, but I cringed when I was the variation in scores. I thought it was pretty arbitrary. 

[L2@uX.IPO]

While I must give credit where credit is due, everyone's scores in semi-finals shot up. The score inflation in semi-finals was ridiculous. Yes it is great that they posted the highest score ever, but if there were a lot of other bands that had previously beaten hebron up there in that environment, it could've been a different story.