2017 BOA St. Louis

[LeanderMomma]

  On 10/22/2017 at 4:49 AM, TWHSParent said:

I understand. I've had the opportunity to see them live a few times, so that helps with my expectations. I hope my posts are getting across that I think they are awesome!

 

I am surprised by the small margin tonight. That was unexpected.

Me too! 88.80?? And only taking 1st place by a hair, really. I am shocked. I guess my reaction to their show really was just raw emotion with no basis in truth.

 

I'm sad now!

[Band band band 212]

  On 10/22/2017 at 4:49 AM, MadisonBandMan1 said:

14.) 75.75 - Cam deton

13.) 76.40 - Lincoln

12.) 77.90 - Rockwood Summit

11.) 78.45 - Bentonville

10.) 78.65 - Morton

9.) 78.75 - Prospect

8.) 79.60 - Bixby

7.) 81.80 - Jenks

6.) 83.75 - Westwood

5.) 83.75 - Grain Valley

Music - Broken Arrow

4.) 85.40 - Owasso

Visual - Broken Arrow

3.) 87.10 - O'Fallon Township

GE - Broken Arrow

2.) 87.55 - Blue Springs

1.) 88.80 - Broken Arrow

 

 

Different judges . Judges score differently . Nobody should compared scores honestly because really a 90 in Indy could be like an 86 in St. Louis . It's just depends

 

 

How in the world is BA 2 points worse than Avon and Carmel? This does not bode well for them come nationals.

[Nny14]

  On 10/22/2017 at 4:49 AM, MadisonBandMan1 said:

14.) 75.75 - Cam deton

13.) 76.40 - Lincoln

12.) 77.90 - Rockwood Summit

11.) 78.45 - Bentonville

10.) 78.65 - Morton

9.) 78.75 - Prospect

8.) 79.60 - Bixby

7.) 81.80 - Jenks

6.) 83.75 - Westwood

5.) 83.75 - Grain Valley

Music - Broken Arrow

4.) 85.40 - Owasso

Visual - Broken Arrow

3.) 87.10 - O'Fallon Township

GE - Broken Arrow

2.) 87.55 - Blue Springs

1.) 88.80 - Broken Arrow

 

 

How in the world is BA 2 points worse than Avon and Carmel? This does not bode well for them come nationals.

Something something don't compare scores. But yeah not exactly the point spread over Blue Springs BA was hoping for. Can't say I'm outraged, I definitely prefer Flower Mound, Avon, and Carmel this year.

[dukeoftrumpet]

  On 10/22/2017 at 4:49 AM, MadisonBandMan1 said:

14.) 75.75 - Cam deton

13.) 76.40 - Lincoln

12.) 77.90 - Rockwood Summit

11.) 78.45 - Bentonville

10.) 78.65 - Morton

9.) 78.75 - Prospect

8.) 79.60 - Bixby

7.) 81.80 - Jenks

6.) 83.75 - Westwood

5.) 83.75 - Grain Valley

Music - Broken Arrow

4.) 85.40 - Owasso

Visual - Broken Arrow

3.) 87.10 - O'Fallon Township

GE - Broken Arrow

2.) 87.55 - Blue Springs

1.) 88.80 - Broken Arrow

 

 

How in the world is BA 2 points worse than Avon and Carmel? This does not bode well for them come nationals.

you do realize that you can’t compare scores from event to event like that right? Plus I doubt any of the judges knew or cared what was being scored in Indy.

[TWHSParent]

  On 10/22/2017 at 4:51 AM, LeanderMomma said:

Me too! 88.80?? And only taking 1st place by a hair, really. I am shocked. I guess my reaction to their show really was just raw emotion with no basis in truth.

 

I'm sad now!

 

Don't be sad! They really are that good! Did you watch their show from St. Louis last year? That show was the best, and would have beaten everyone (yes, including Flower Mound - IMO).

 

Still 3 weeks to Nationals. I think the repeat is hurting them. I read through the judging rubric, and it is OK to reuse ideas in a new and creative way. I don't see that with the reuse of their props from last year, so they aren't getting full points for their show, nor should they (in my view). Going to be toward the top, and could win, but there will now be doubts in some minds, and new hope in others. Should be exciting!

[takigan]

Caps up.

Westwood 4th in prelims over OWASSO!  Man....sounds like they've really stepped up the past few weeks.

EDIT: Also 2nd in MPI in Prelims behind Broken Arrow, 2nd in MPE in Finals behind Broken Arrow.

[RenMacnary]

That tie breaker was interesting. Rule is that the raw score before penalty is the tie breaker, and THEN overall GE effect. So Grain Valley's raw score was 83.85 versus Westwood at 83.75, with a .1 penalty.  I don't think I've seen that come into play before.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:02 AM, TWHSParent said:

Don't be sad! They really are that good! Did you watch their show from St. Louis last year? That show was the best, and would have beaten everyone (yes, including Flower Mound - IMO).

 

Still 3 weeks to Nationals. I think the repeat is hurting them. I read through the judging rubric, and it is OK to reuse ideas in a new and creative way. I don't see that with the reuse of their props from last year, so they aren't getting full points for their show, nor should they (in my view). Going to be toward the top, and could win, but there will now be doubts in some minds, and new hope in others. Should be exciting!

I never saw anything other than a YouTube video of BA at a football game last year, and the quality was pathetic. I guess I can see where reusing the props from the previous year could hurt them in the judges eyes. To me, it was fresh and amazing. To someone else who saw them last year, I can appreciate how that might not seem so fresh or amazing. But I will never forget how watching them for the first time tonight made me feel. And I'm savoring it.

[TWHSParent]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:14 AM, LeanderMomma said:

I never saw anything other than a YouTube video of BA at a football game last year, and the quality was pathetic. I guess I can see where reusing the props from the previous year could hurt them in the judges eyes. To me, it was fresh and amazing. To someone else who saw them last year, I can appreciate how that might not seem so fresh or amazing. But I will never forget how watching them for the first time tonight made me feel. And I'm savoring it.

 

Here's a link to their St. Louis finals performance from last year. Not the best quality...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtIXwZuhSzY  There are others you can find as well.

[principalagent]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:13 AM, RenMacnary said:

That tie breaker was interesting. Rule is that the raw score before penalty is the tie breaker, and THEN overall GE effect. So Grain Valley's raw score was 83.85 versus Westwood at 83.75, with a .1 penalty. I don't think I've seen that come into play before.

It came into play at BOA Austin 2015. It cost Round Rock their first regional win, but saved them a medal over Bowie.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:02 AM, TWHSParent said:

Don't be sad! They really are that good! Did you watch their show from St. Louis last year? That show was the best, and would have beaten everyone (yes, including Flower Mound - IMO).

 

Still 3 weeks to Nationals. I think the repeat is hurting them. I read through the judging rubric, and it is OK to reuse ideas in a new and creative way. I don't see that with the reuse of their props from last year, so they aren't getting full points for their show, nor should they (in my view). Going to be toward the top, and could win, but there will now be doubts in some minds, and new hope in others. Should be exciting!

 

I don't think "the repeat" is affecting them in any way. This is not enough of the same thing to be an issue for them. I don't think any judge is going to ping them for using some of the same equipment that they have used in a previous year. This show is different enough and they are using the carts differently enough that I don't think it is a detriment.

[Rubisco]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:41 AM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

I don't think "the repeat" is affecting them in any way. This is not enough of the same thing to be an issue for them. I don't think any judge is going to ping them for using some of the same equipment that they have used in a previous year. This show is different enough and they are using the carts differently enough that I don't think it is a detriment.

I haven’t seen any of the show since they’ve added the colorful flags and costumes, nor have I seen anything past the opener, but what I did see seemed a bit too familiar. And they did just barely come out on top in VGE in both rounds of this contest (.1 points, or a half a point difference on the 100 scale). That’s not how it usually goes for them, and so I find that fairly telling.

 

Of course, Paul McGarr having Blue Springs three points ahead of them in MGE in finals didn’t help either!

[Rubisco]

All that being said, I would caution against comparing scores across regionals. These contests all had different panels, and it’s completely plausible that some panels are just stingier than others. If you think, for instance, that Avon is in trouble because they essentially scored the same as CTJ did a week ago, I would say that you’re probably setting yourself up for disappointment. Assuming that you want an all TX top 3, of course!

[RenMacnary]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:34 AM, principalagent said:

It came into play at BOA Austin 2015. It cost Round Rock their first regional win, but saved them a medal over Bowie.

hah.  I was at that contest and didn't see it.  Guess it shows how much of a homer I was/am...I only dive into scores when it has to do with Bands I follow. I sure did love watching finals last night, some GREAT moments in all the bands!

[Guest]

After seeing them last night, I think there is a very high chance O'Fallon will be making there first national finalist appearance this November.

[TWHSParent]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:41 AM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

I don't think "the repeat" is affecting them in any way. This is not enough of the same thing to be an issue for them. I don't think any judge is going to ping them for using some of the same equipment that they have used in a previous year. This show is different enough and they are using the carts differently enough that I don't think it is a detriment.

 

Let me clarify what I think (and I could be completely off base). I think of this more as a ceiling rather than pinging. I'll use gymnastics as an example - certain techniques are considered worthy of scoring a 10, while others, no matter how well you do them, will only get a 9.7. While BOA isn't quite as objective as that, they do look at difficulty, they do look at originality and design, and they do account for these things. So my take is that there is a ceiling for shows, and even if you are perfect you won't exceed that number. Now for BA, I think this reuse lowers that ceiling from last year, but how low I have no idea. As I stated, they can certainly win, but they won't be quite so dominant as they could have been with a fresher take. This is all my opinion, and I'm just a forum commenter, so take it for what it's worth.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

  On 10/22/2017 at 7:30 AM, Rubisco said:

I haven’t seen any of the show since they’ve added the colorful flags and costumes, nor have I seen anything past the opener, but what I did see seemed a bit too familiar. And they did just barely come out on top in VGE in both rounds of this contest (.1 points, or a half a point difference on the 100 scale). That’s not how it usually goes for them, and so I find that fairly telling.

 

Of course, Paul McGarr having Blue Springs three points ahead of them in MGE in finals didn’t help either!

 

I'm just saying that I don't think the primary reason that they may have been scored lower was because of the reuse of the carts from last year or from any other similarity to last year's show. I think that it is more likely that it is because of their performance level or the point potential of this year's show that they received the scores they received. I just don't see that this is obvious enough to state that this is a factor. Who knows, you may be right.

 

By the way, the largest difference I saw between any MGE judge for Broken Arrow and Blue Springs was .8 points.

[Dog885]

Man, is it me or did STL get more competitive? Cy-Falls didn't even make finals! Are they having a bad season or bad rep? I know that us here at Anderson are not having the best season, 19th at Austin, 26th at STL. I'm guessing it's because we literally have no props and minimal choreography on field. On a different note (pun intended) those finalist bands were amazing! I can tell Lincoln was a crowd favorite and the stadium looked like it got brighter when O'Fallon was on field.

[Xenon]

Comparing scores across different contests is very problematic, but looking at the gap between groups is significantly less so.

 

The 1.25 gap between Broken Arrow and Blue Springs was significantly smaller than expected when you consider that Broken Arrow was/is-currently in the #1 spot on HornRank and Blue Springs is #16. And then you add in that just the week before, LD Bell (#14) had a 0.55 gap over Blue Springs at a contest that uses the BOA sheets and a judging panel that was filled with very well respected BOA judges. Such relatively small gaps (those are gaps that can be made up in a week) lends at least a little bit of credence to the idea that either BA should be lower in the rankings and/or Bell and BS should be higher.

 

But also, again, none of this should really change how anybody feels about these shows because all 3 of these are marvels at what they are doing.

[Astros]

Broken Arrow was light years better than any band.

[principalagent]

  On 10/22/2017 at 6:04 PM, Dog885 said:

I'm guessing it's because we literally have no props and minimal choreography on field.

That’s not why. Carmel won GN last year with High GE without props or extensive choreography.

[JeremiahW]

For those of you pointing out you can't compare scores across competitions, that's mostly true, but the box cut offs are pretty significant, at least according to the adjudication handbook and sheets. While Avon and Carmel received box 5 scores from a majority of judges in finals, BA did not.

[Rubisco]

  On 10/22/2017 at 3:46 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

By the way, the largest difference I saw between any MGE judge for Broken Arrow and Blue Springs was .8 points.

I was referring to a 3-point gap out of 100. The .6 difference b/w Blue Springs and BA in finals is equal to 3 points on the 100 scale, which is the scale the judges actually use when judging bands.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 10/22/2017 at 5:21 AM, TWHSParent said:

Here's a link to their St. Louis finals performance from last year. Not the best quality...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtIXwZuhSzY  There are others you can find as well.

 

You're right, the quality was pretty bad...hey, i'll never complain about FloMarching again!  (okay, so yeah, I probably will.   ).  But even with the terrible videographer (how hard is it to hold the dang phone STILL and shut up while you are recording?), it was still a phenomenal performance.  They are just truly spectacular.  

[LeanderMomma]

Here's a good quality video from the BA finals performance last night...before it gets taken down.

 

https://youtu.be/yvqmkEqBQ8Q