2018 6A State

[TubaMomof1]

I can see some up and coming houston based groups cause an upset

This would be awesome! No offense to anyone intended, of course.  

[El Gato_01]

Now I know this is not an accurate comparison but I went ahead and complied all the raw scores from the Area finalists and sorted from largest to smallest. Now again, disclaimer, the only similarities one can gather from this is the fact that the contests were all on the same day, around the same time, and using the same judges sheet and scoring system across the state. That is about it when it comes to similarities.

 

Judges themselves are very subjective, and as mentioned earlier on the thread, the UIL subcaptions on their sheets allows for lots of freedom based each judges interpretations (as evidenced by the vast differences in ordinals AND raw scores across the state at Area) especially when they are comparing bands based on the multitude of groups that they see on that particular day. If anything the following is an example of the huge variations in the UIL scoring system.

 

That said, taking this with a huge grain of salt, here are all the area results and a very hypothetical ranking of 1-41 of all finalist from the 9 areas, again using raw scores (which is why some bands are ranked higher than they actually placed at area):

 

1 Vista Ridge 4877 2 Vandergrift 4837 3 Woodlands 4792 4 Keller 4741 5 Waxahachie 4739 6 Leander 4706 8 Coppell 4706 7 Westlake 4703 9 Prosper 4670 10 Reagan 4634 11 Oak Ridge 4606 12 Duncanville 4592

 

 

13 North Shore 4573 14 Bowie 4543 15 Flower Mound 4537 16 Woodlands CP 4531 17 Pearland 4516 18 Katy 4513 19 Cy-Fair 4512 20 CT Johnson 4509 21 JE Taylor 4503 22 Hebron 4502 23 Clements 4498 24 Brazoswood 4466 25 Seven Lakes 4454 26 Laredo United 4440 27 Dawson 4438 28 Jersey Village 4407 29 Marcus 4394 30 Austin 4367 31 Hendrickson 4343 32 Laredo Alexander 4330 33 Cedar Ridge 4317 34 Harlingen 4282 36 Hanna 4235 35 Pebble Hills 4234 37 PSJA 4206 38 Round Rock 4158 39 Montwood 4131 40 Rockwall 3865 41 John Horn 3756

[Fwguard17]

Now I know this is not an accurate comparison but I went ahead and complied all the raw scores from the Area finalists and sorted from largest to smallest. Now again, disclaimer, the only similarities one can gather from this is the fact that the contests were all on the same day, around the same time, and using the same judges sheet and scoring system across the state. That is about it when it comes to similarities.

 

Judges themselves are very subjective, and as mentioned earlier on the thread, the UIL subcaptions on their sheets allows for lots of freedom based each judges interpretations (as evidenced by the vast differences in ordinals AND raw scores across the state at Area) especially when they are comparing bands based on the multitude of groups that they see on that particular day. If anything the following is an example of the huge variations in the UIL scoring system.

 

That said, taking this with a huge grain of salt, here are all the area results and a very hypothetical ranking of 1-41 of all finalist from the 9 areas, again using raw scores (which is why some bands are ranked higher than they actually placed at area):

1 Vista Ridge 4877 2 Vandergrift 4837 3 Woodlands 4792 4 Keller 4741 5 Waxahachie 4739 6 Leander 4706 8 Coppell 4706 7 Westlake 4703 9 Prosper 4670 10 Reagan 4634 11 Oak Ridge 4606 12 Duncanville 4592

 

13 North Shore 4573 14 Bowie 4543 15 Flower Mound 4537 16 Woodlands CP 4531 17 Pearland 4516 18 Katy 4513 19 Cy-Fair 4512 20 CT Johnson 4509 21 JE Taylor 4503 22 Hebron 4502 23 Clements 4498 24 Brazoswood 4466 25 Seven Lakes 4454 26 Laredo United 4440 27 Dawson 4438 28 Jersey Village 4407 29 Marcus 4394 30 Austin 4367 31 Hendrickson 4343 32 Laredo Alexander 4330 33 Cedar Ridge 4317 34 Harlingen 4282 36 Hanna 4235 35 Pebble Hills 4234 37 PSJA 4206 38 Round Rock 4158 39 Montwood 4131 40 Rockwall 3865 41 John Horn 3756

Sorry, but I think this is completely silly and goes far beyond "scores can't be compared across contests". It's just my opinion, but I have seen many of these shows and there is just not a world in which Oak Ridge, Prosper, Westlake and Duncanville make finals and Flowermound, Hebron, and CTJ do not. Nothing against those band programs, but from what I have seen this is a pointless comparison.

[zoomer]

 

Now I know this is not an accurate comparison but I went ahead and complied all the raw scores from the Area finalists and sorted from largest to smallest. Now again, disclaimer, the only similarities one can gather from this is the fact that the contests were all on the same day, around the same time, and using the same judges sheet and scoring system across the state. That is about it when it comes to similarities.

 

Judges themselves are very subjective, and as mentioned earlier on the thread, the UIL subcaptions on their sheets allows for lots of freedom based each judges interpretations (as evidenced by the vast differences in ordinals AND raw scores across the state at Area) especially when they are comparing bands based on the multitude of groups that they see on that particular day. If anything the following is an example of the huge variations in the UIL scoring system.

 

That said, taking this with a huge grain of salt, here are all the area results and a very hypothetical ranking of 1-41 of all finalist from the 9 areas, again using raw scores (which is why some bands are ranked higher than they actually placed at area):

1 Vista Ridge 4877 2 Vandergrift 4837 3 Woodlands 4792 4 Keller 4741 5 Waxahachie 4739 6 Leander 4706 8 Coppell 4706 7 Westlake 4703 9 Prosper 4670 10 Reagan 4634 11 Oak Ridge 4606 12 Duncanville 4592

 

13 North Shore 4573 14 Bowie 4543 15 Flower Mound 4537 16 Woodlands CP 4531 17 Pearland 4516 18 Katy 4513 19 Cy-Fair 4512 20 CT Johnson 4509 21 JE Taylor 4503 22 Hebron 4502 23 Clements 4498 24 Brazoswood 4466 25 Seven Lakes 4454 26 Laredo United 4440 27 Dawson 4438 28 Jersey Village 4407 29 Marcus 4394 30 Austin 4367 31 Hendrickson 4343 32 Laredo Alexander 4330 33 Cedar Ridge 4317 34 Harlingen 4282 36 Hanna 4235 35 Pebble Hills 4234 37 PSJA 4206 38 Round Rock 4158 39 Montwood 4131 40 Rockwall 3865 41 John Horn 3756

imagine ctj, Hebron, Marcus, and flomo missing finals (I know it’s just raw totals)

[LeanderMomma]

The cat said....

 

1 Vista Ridge 4877 2 Vandergrift 4837 3 Woodlands 4792 4 Keller 4741 5 Waxahachie 4739 6 Leander 4706 8 Coppell 4706 7 Westlake 4703 9 Prosper 4670 10 Reagan 4634 11 Oak Ridge 4606 12 Duncanville 4592  13 North Shore 4573 14 Bowie 4543 15 Flower Mound 4537 16 Woodlands CP 4531 17 Pearland 4516 18 Katy 4513 19 Cy-Fair 4512 20 CT Johnson 4509 21 JE Taylor 4503 22 Hebron 4502 23 Clements 4498 24 Brazoswood 4466 25 Seven Lakes 4454 26 Laredo United 4440 27 Dawson 4438 28 Jersey Village 4407 29 Marcus 4394 30 Austin 4367 31 Hendrickson 4343 32 Laredo Alexander 4330 33 Cedar Ridge 4317 34 Harlingen 4282 36 Hanna 4235 35 Pebble Hills 4234 37 PSJA 4206 38 Round Rock 4158 39 Montwood 4131 40 Rockwall 3865 41 John Horn 3756

 

****************

My response:

 

You had me til I saw Reagan in 10th, FloMo in 15th, the Woodlands in 16th and CTJ in 20th.  Interesting concept though, and you did a lot of hard work compiling all of that data.  It just doesn't seem to correlate appropriately in any sort of meaningful way.  

 

Welcome!!

[TWHSParent]

The cat said....

 

1 Vista Ridge 4877 2 Vandergrift 4837 3 Woodlands 4792 4 Keller 4741 5 Waxahachie 4739 6 Leander 4706 8 Coppell 4706 7 Westlake 4703 9 Prosper 4670 10 Reagan 4634 11 Oak Ridge 4606 12 Duncanville 4592  13 North Shore 4573 14 Bowie 4543 15 Flower Mound 4537 16 Woodlands CP 4531 17 Pearland 4516 18 Katy 4513 19 Cy-Fair 4512 20 CT Johnson 4509 21 JE Taylor 4503 22 Hebron 4502 23 Clements 4498 24 Brazoswood 4466 25 Seven Lakes 4454 26 Laredo United 4440 27 Dawson 4438 28 Jersey Village 4407 29 Marcus 4394 30 Austin 4367 31 Hendrickson 4343 32 Laredo Alexander 4330 33 Cedar Ridge 4317 34 Harlingen 4282 36 Hanna 4235 35 Pebble Hills 4234 37 PSJA 4206 38 Round Rock 4158 39 Montwood 4131 40 Rockwall 3865 41 John Horn 3756

 

****************

My response:

 

You had me til I saw Reagan in 10th, FloMo in 15th, the Woodlands in 16th and CTJ in 20th.  Interesting concept though, and you did a lot of hard work compiling all of that data.  It just doesn't seem to correlate appropriately in any sort of meaningful way.  

 

Welcome!!

 

One small correction - The Woodlands was 3rd, The Woodlands College Park was 16th.

[meursault]

The cat said....

 

1 Vista Ridge 4877 2 Vandergrift 4837 3 Woodlands 4792 4 Keller 4741 5 Waxahachie 4739 6 Leander 4706 8 Coppell 4706 7 Westlake 4703 9 Prosper 4670 10 Reagan 4634 11 Oak Ridge 4606 12 Duncanville 4592  13 North Shore 4573 14 Bowie 4543 15 Flower Mound 4537 16 Woodlands CP 4531 17 Pearland 4516 18 Katy 4513 19 Cy-Fair 4512 20 CT Johnson 4509 21 JE Taylor 4503 22 Hebron 4502 23 Clements 4498 24 Brazoswood 4466 25 Seven Lakes 4454 26 Laredo United 4440 27 Dawson 4438 28 Jersey Village 4407 29 Marcus 4394 30 Austin 4367 31 Hendrickson 4343 32 Laredo Alexander 4330 33 Cedar Ridge 4317 34 Harlingen 4282 36 Hanna 4235 35 Pebble Hills 4234 37 PSJA 4206 38 Round Rock 4158 39 Montwood 4131 40 Rockwall 3865 41 John Horn 3756

 

****************

My response:

 

You had me til I saw Reagan in 10th, FloMo in 15th, the Woodlands in 16th and CTJ in 20th.  Interesting concept though, and you did a lot of hard work compiling all of that data.  It just doesn't seem to correlate appropriately in any sort of meaningful way.  

 

Welcome!!

Don't forget Hebron in 22 and Marcus in 29, lol

[El Gato_01]

Sorry, but I think this is completely silly and goes far beyond "scores can't be compared across contests". It's just my opinion, but I have seen many of these shows and there is just not a world in which Oak Ridge, Prosper, Westlake and Duncanville make finals and Flowermound, Hebron, and CTJ do not. Nothing against those band programs, but from what I have seen this is a pointless comparison.

 

 

Right...which is why I stressed multiple times that this is not a fair comparison, but none the less fun to add into the topic of discussion. Like I also said, if anything this goes to show the flaws in the UIL scoring system and how inconsistent it is from contest to contest. This is why as someone mentioned elsewhere why the hornrank guys likely don't take UIL contests into account with their rankings.

 

Yeh, lets be real this will not even come close to playing out this way, but I am very curious to see how much it is off when all is said and done. 

[El Gato_01]

You had me til I saw Reagan in 10th, FloMo in 15th, the Woodlands in 16th and CTJ in 20th.  Interesting concept though, and you did a lot of hard work compiling all of that data.  It just doesn't seem to correlate appropriately in any sort of meaningful way.  

 

Welcome!!

 

 

Yeh, I knew it would pop out some weird stuff, but I really was curious as to how it would play out, so I said, "egh what the heck, why not." Now again, of course if I was a betting man I would not go by this at all and be out all that money. But as I just mentioned, it is fun to just throw that out there and see what it spits out.

[LeanderMomma]

One small correction - The Woodlands was 3rd, The Woodlands College Park was 16th.

oops, sorry!

[northtexasbandfan]

 

Not-so-bold prediction: the music caption winner at San Antonio Super Regional will go on to win UIL. Looking back at BOA SA on even-years, seems like a pretty sure thing.

I have a feeling it could well be a band that has been a bridesmaid no less than 5 times in San Antonio between BOA and UIL contests going back to 2012. They may finally get to stand on the alter.

[El Gato_01]

Hebron?

 

Edit: Hebron got 2nd at UIL in '12, '14, and '16.

 

One more edit: I think that's who you meant and if so I definitely agree. I brought up the SASR music caption because as we all know, UIL heavilly weighs music performance in its judging system and I saw a correlation between BOA music caption winners and UIL State Marching Band Champions.

 

Of course, there's another circuit besides UIL and BOA that's a pretty good indicator of music performance: TMEA Honor Band. It's (usually) not as useful for predicting success in the marching band world for what I think are obvious reasons. But it means the directors can teach and the students can play. The potential to translate that success from the stage to the field is there.

 

Hebron's 2010 Honor Band win and their music caption win this year at BOA DFW prelims (over Flower Mound and Keller) -- as well as their sustained success over the years in both UIL and BOA -- tells me they have the potential to win.

 

Same goes for Vandegrift: they're the reigning 6A Honor Band this year and they also got a music caption win at BOA Houston this year (over Reagan, TWHS, and Bowie). They're knocking on the door.

 

Good point. Doesn't always quite work out that way but yes that is an indicator of some high level teaching occurring on those campuses. The 2018 5A Honor Band was Waxahachie (finished 3rd at 5A SMBC last year) and the other hand you had the 6A Honor Band before Vandy in 2017 which was Brownsville Lopez who finished 25th at SMBC prelims.

[northtexasbandfan]

Hebron?

 

Edit: Hebron got 2nd at UIL in '12, '14, and '16.

 

One more edit: I think that's who you meant and if so I definitely agree. I brought up the SASR music caption because as we all know, UIL heavilly weighs music performance in its judging system and I saw a correlation between BOA music caption winners and UIL State Marching Band Champions.

 

Of course, there's another circuit besides UIL and BOA that's a pretty good indicator of music performance: TMEA Honor Band. It's (usually) not as useful for predicting success in the marching band world for what I think are obvious reasons. But it means the directors can teach and the students can play. The potential to translate that success from the stage to the field is there.

 

Hebron's 2010 Honor Band win and their music caption win this year at BOA DFW prelims (over Flower Mound and Keller) -- as well as their sustained success over the years in both UIL and BOA -- tells me they have the potential to win.

 

Same goes for Vandegrift: they're the reigning 6A Honor Band this year and they also got a music caption win at BOA Houston this year (over Reagan, TWHS, and Bowie). They're knocking on the door.

I am not a former musician and 99% of you on this forum know more than me about music, but Hebron's music performance at Area C last weekend left my jaw on the ground.

[northtexasbandfan]

Another thing I look at is Sudler Shield recipients, but those seem to be awarded in response to past success. Still, it can be an indicator of future success.

 

Recent Sudler Shield recipients:

2017: Flower Mound and Vista Ridge

2015: Keller

2014: CTJ and Round Rock

2013: James Bowie*

2012: Plano East Senior

2010: Hebron and Westlake

2009: The Woodlands

2008: Coppell

 

*James Bowie actually received the Sudler Shield in '05 as well, making them the only Texas band to be awarded twice.

 

I bet! Do you happen to have a video by chance?

No video, but looking forward to seeing them again over these next 5 days for sure.

[BlackJesus]

Another thing I look at is Sudler Shield recipients, but those seem to be awarded in response to past success. Still, it can be an indicator of future success.

 

Recent Sudler Shield recipients:

2017: Flower Mound and Vista Ridge

2015: Keller

2014: CTJ and Round Rock

2013: James Bowie*

2012: Plano East Senior

2010: Hebron and Westlake

2009: The Woodlands

2008: Coppell

 

*James Bowie actually received the Sudler Shield in '05 as well, making them the only Texas band to be awarded twice.

 

I bet! Do you happen to have a video by chance?

Question, what's the difference between the Sudler Flag and the Sudler Shield?

[josephbandfan]

Question, what's the difference between the Sudler Flag and the Sudler Shield?

Im not 100% but I believe the Sudler Shield is for marching band and the Sudler Flag is for concert band. 

[FloMoParent]

Alexander HS #

Austin HS

Brazoswood HS

C.T. Johnson HS*

Cedar Ridge HS*

Clements HS

Coppell HS#

Cy-Fair HS

Dawson HS

Duncanville HS

Flower Mound HS*

Hanna HS

Harlingen HS

Hebron HS*

Hendrickson HS#

James Bowie HS#

James E. Taylor HS#

Jersey Village HS

John Horn HS

Katy HS

Keller HS*

Leander HS*

Marcus HS*

Montwood HS

North Shore Senior HS

Oak Ridge HS#

Pearland HS#

Pebble Hills HS

Prosper HS#

PSJA HS

Rockwall HS

Ronald Reagan HS*

Round Rock HS#

Seven Lakes HS#

The Woodlands College Park HS#

The Woodlands HS*

United HS

Vandegrift HS*

Vista Ridge HS*

Waxahachie HS

Westlake HS*

 

* denotes BOA San Antonio Super Regional Finalist

# denotes BOA San Antonio Super Regional Performer

[ChristopherRoden]

 

Alexander HS #

Austin HS

Brazoswood HS

C.T. Johnson HS*

Cedar Ridge HS*

Clements HS

Coppell HS#

Cy-Fair HS

Dawson HS

Duncanville HS

Flower Mound HS*

Hanna HS

Harlingen HS

Hebron HS*

Hendrickson HS#

James Bowie HS#

James E. Taylor HS#

Jersey Village HS

John Horn HS

Katy HS

Keller HS*

Leander HS*

Marcus HS*

Montwood HS

North Shore Senior HS

Oak Ridge HS#

Pearland HS#

Pebble Hills HS

Prosper HS#

PSJA HS

Rockwall HS

Ronald Reagan HS*

Round Rock HS#

Seven Lakes HS#

The Woodlands College Park HS#

The Woodlands HS*

United HS

Vandegrift HS*

Vista Ridge HS*

Waxahachie HS

Westlake HS*

 

* denotes BOA San Antonio Super Regional Finalist

# denotes BOA San Antonio Super Regional Performer

How many finalists from this weekend will be repeat finalists on Tuesday?

[principalagent]

How many finalists from this weekend will be repeat finalists on Tuesday?

At least 10.

[FloMoParent]

How many finalists from this weekend will be repeat finalists on Tuesday?

I don't know.  Just wanted to start the list now

[TubaMomof1]

At least 10.

So basically only 2 other bands in the field of participants at state have a chance at finals.  Sad for all the kids who work so hard for months.

[principalagent]

So basically only 2 other bands in the field of participants at state have a chance at finals. Sad for all the kids who work so hard for months.

Well, those ten bands work really hard too. It’s tough, but at the end of the season, you just have to be happy with your band’s show and the work you and your friends (or your child and their friends) put into it.

[TubaMomof1]

Well, those ten bands work really hard too. It’s tough, but at the end of the season, you just have to be happy with your band’s show and the work you and your friends (or your child and their friends) put into it.

Agreed but it's the same bands year after year.  Discouraging if you are not in one of those bands and you already know from the get go that you don't have a chance. And yes you then have to find some of happiness in the work you've done.

[vincentlee1220]

Agreed but it's the same bands year after year.  Discouraging if you are not in one of those bands and you already know from the get go that you don't have a chance. And yes you then have to find some of happiness in the work you've done.

I would disagree that it's the same groups year after year; success isn't guaranteed to any band, even the top groups.

It's a combination of staff dedication, design team vision, parent support, and of course student work that ultimately makes a good show and season. Any band with these can find themselves at the top (unfortunately, many of these are correlated with funding, but that's another topic).

 

Case in point, if someone had told me in 2011-2014 that Vista Ridge is now contending for a top 5 spot at 6A state finals I wouldn't have believed them.

[TexasHockeyFan]

I would disagree that it's the same groups year after year; success isn't guaranteed to any band, even the top groups.

It's a combination of staff dedication, design team vision, parent support, and of course student work that ultimately makes a good show and season. Any band with these can find themselves at the top (unfortunately, many of these are correlated with funding, but that's another topic).

 

Case in point, if someone had told me in 2011-2014 that Vista Ridge is now contending for a top 5 spot at 6A state finals I wouldn't have believed them.

or even the thought of Hebron not even making finals for BOA SA in 2011 more less placing lower than 15th * i believe they ranked 19th *. I agree with this