2018 6A State

[Jeffrey L. Gorman]

I am sorry that a High School Band Marching Contest could bring on such frustration.  I do not know why Round Rock had one judge not care for  their Marching(Judges 4 & 5 Did Marching and Maneuvering) in 6A.   I am sorry that you feel that someone else,s child will be punished because of what one judge thought of their Band. Every judge at the event has taken a Band to the SMC. They all have had to deal with situations like yours, because Judges are humans also. To be honest Round Rock was between Vista Ridge and Flower Mound. They were not in the same class as either of those two Bands. I am sorry but that happens, if they had been between two Bands of lesser quallity, they very well might have had higher Ordinals. 

 

I have one other comment and you probably will not like this. I would like to tell you a story of a Judge who took a way a Placling for the Band I was assistant director for and what the rest of the story was.

 

In Nov 1973, I was he Assistant Band Director at a major High School in Southern CA which had an outstanding Marching Band. In CA at that time the All Western Band Review was the unofficial State Championship matching the top 72,yes I said 72 High School Bands in Street Marching competition.  The Bands were divided into 6 Classes of 12 Bands Each by School enrollment. Besides the Sweepstakes and Music Awards the Top 5 Bands in each class were recognized with place trophies.  We had done such a great performance on the Street to Barnum and Baileys Favorite March, we were very sure we would finish with the 2nd Place Trophy in Class

 

The awards ceremony was held in the Long Beach Arena before 12,000 screaming Band members and Parents and Fans.  It was also held with TV cameras and all sorts of dignitaries.     When the awards were given in our class  we got a 4th Place trophy instead of the 2nd place we thought we had one.  In fact the Band that got the 2nd Place Award had played the Same March and we were convinced we had beaten this school. Our Head Director, Ross Davis, one of the most decorated Judges in the SCSBOA went to pick up our score sheets as I took the Band back to the buses. We were not happy campers.

 

Ross met me at the Buses and said there had been a major problem in the music scoring.  In CA you have to provide copies of the music score to the music judges. It seems that one of the 3 music judges had wrongly placed our Score of the March in another schools packet and sent it to the judges for tabulation. We received the other schools score for the music instead.  They also played Barnum and Baileys Favorite. 

 

Let this be clear to our Band and 12,000 people we were 4th Place not the 2nd place we should have been. How did this happen.

A week before the All Western  one of the music judges contacted SCSBOA and informed the chief judge that he had been given a diagnosis of an inoperable Brain Tumor which would take his life in 6 months. The judge had been given medicine to handle the blackouts and headaches that were causing him a great deal of pain. . The Honor of judging at All Western in CA was a High Honor for those selected for this event. The Chief Judge was asked to allow the Judge in Question to serve as one of the Music Judges. The Medical Dr. serving as the Judges Physician felt that there would be no problems him judging.     That day when we marched past the Judges we received the 3rd Highest music score of 72 Bands, however when the tabulators got the scores, in our packet  were the results of another Band who did not score anywhere near us.  The Judge in question had a blackout after the other Band went through and when he came out of the blackout he changed the score sheets for two schools. The Judge was contacted by both Schools and the SCSBOA. He admitted that this error had been his and he blamed the blackout for the mistake.  The directors of both schools and the SCSBOA agreed that no good could come of announcing that a Judge with a Terminal Illness had made a mistake.  As Ross reminded me. THIS IS HIGH SCHOOL BAND, A persons life and career mean more to us than a Trophy.

 

When we got back to the Bus, we told the Band this.   "You Did an Outstanding Job.  We feel that you should have finished higher. It did not happen today.  However we are proud of each and every one of you"   Some day you will understand things we cannot tell you"

In 1985 at the Band Alumni dinner for the Band of 73 and 74, shortly before Ross Davis passing, he told the Band what happened. To a person they agreed that the trophy was not worth ruining the legacy  of a  judge

 

This is how you should look at this event.

[Dband2018]

 

Area D 2012 a judge made the same comment about Round Rock's leg cape. I hope it wasn't the same judge. RR has had leg capes for 9 years. Maybe a judge like that shouldn't judge marching.

Our band director said it was (I dont want to name the judge however)

[Bandwoww]

 

I think it came down to the fact that Vista Ridge had THE BEST designed show. It effectively showcased the band’s talents in exactly the right ways so that there was very little room for error. Vista did not have the most difficult show. By any means. But the students were given exactly what they needed to win. Yeah, they had to work extremely hard for it, but the reality is that all of these finalist students spent the same amount of time rehearsing, etc. It’s blatant that there was a major shift in direction and design this year for Vista. Not to take anything from them, but it’s the truth. Vista had the perfect show, and that’s RARE.

 

Now, did the staff at Vista go into the season knowing they were going to win? No.

 

But was this direction and design change inevitably going to put out a program that was pretty unstoppable? Yes.

[vincentlee1220]

Proud VRHS mom here and I'm no judge of marching skills and obviously I love my kid's show. However, I really believe the Vista show gripped people this year in such an emotional way that it may have put us over the top. We were glued to the live blog and the love we received from Landry and the Daniels was so amazing to see.  But when Daniel Sanchez said, "That transition back into lost destroys me every single time. There are multiple people up here in the press box with tears," my next thought was "OMG we might have just won it!" That was the point where I thought we could actually take home the gold.  Today the kids listened to the recording of the judges comments in class and the judges were crying during our show. How could a show that moves you so much not get points for that? Maybe I'm wrong, because I know nothing but dang that was one fine show and those kids marched it beautifully! And we started the competition just wanting to make it to finals (speaking as a parent). Being a medal contender was so off my radar.

 

wow, I wish I could hear some of these tapes. this is like the time a judge exclaimed "holy brass" at our first hit at 2013 Area D finals, but at a whole 'nother level.

[Mash]

wow, I wish I could hear some of these tapes. this is like the time a judge exclaimed "holy brass" at our first hit at 2013 Area D finals, but at a whole 'nother level.

I remember those tapes, I seem to remember them saying good things about a certain soloist as well :-)  

 

I would love to hear the tapes, I bet they are interesting.

 

The difference between FloMo and VR was very close.  It could have easily gone the other way between the two schools.  Timing in finals could have made a difference, it also  could be other small factors.   The differences between the performances were just that close.   Both schools should be extremely proud of their program.

[Somethingbandrelated]

 

Proud VRHS mom here and I'm no judge of marching skills and obviously I love my kid's show. However, I really believe the Vista show gripped people this year in such an emotional way that it may have put us over the top. We were glued to the live blog and the love we received from Landry and the Daniels was so amazing to see. But when Daniel Sanchez said, "That transition back into lost destroys me every single time. There are multiple people up here in the press box with tears," my next thought was "OMG we might have just won it!" That was the point where I thought we could actually take home the gold. Today the kids listened to the recording of the judges comments in class and the judges were crying during our show. How could a show that moves you so much not get points for that? Maybe I'm wrong, because I know nothing but dang that was one fine show and those kids marched it beautifully! And we started the competition just wanting to make it to finals (speaking as a parent). Being a medal contender was so off my radar.

Oh I wouldn’t dispute that for a second. Absolutely incredible show design from whomever designs for VRHS. I would’ve preferred some more challenging music, but really thats my only complaint. Even so, the music was extremely well executed. However, UIL does not factor GE into their scoring. They are all about execution, and performance time is HUGE in UIL’s horribly flawed scoring system. After watching both FloMo and VRHS performances, I believe FloMo simply performed better than them, however they went extremely early, and VRHS went close to last. And again to clarify, I support the heck out of VRHS. They should have beaten hebron at BOA easy.

[Somethingbandrelated]

Cont. thoughts:

That show had a similar effect on both the crowd and judges that Leonardos Dream (FloMo 2016) had. That is quite an acheivement.

[LeanderMomma]

I am sorry that a High School Band Marching Contest could bring on such frustration. I do not know why Round Rock had one judge not care for their Marching(Judges 4 & 5 Did Marching and Maneuvering) in 6A. I am sorry that you feel that someone else,s child will be punished because of what one judge thought of their Band. Every judge at the event has taken a Band to the SMC. They all have had to deal with situations like yours, because Judges are humans also. To be honest Round Rock was between Vista Ridge and Flower Mound. They were not in the same class as either of those two Bands. I am sorry but that happens, if they had been between two Bands of lesser quallity, they very well might have had higher Ordinals.

 

I have one other comment and you probably will not like this. I would like to tell you a story of a Judge who took a way a Placling for the Band I was assistant director for and what the rest of the story was.

 

In Nov 1973, I was he Assistant Band Director at a major High School in Southern CA which had an outstanding Marching Band. In CA at that time the All Western Band Review was the unofficial State Championship matching the top 72,yes I said 72 High School Bands in Street Marching competition. The Bands were divided into 6 Classes of 12 Bands Each by School enrollment. Besides the Sweepstakes and Music Awards the Top 5 Bands in each class were recognized with place trophies. We had done such a great performance on the Street to Barnum and Baileys Favorite March, we were very sure we would finish with the 2nd Place Trophy in Class

 

The awards ceremony was held in the Long Beach Arena before 12,000 screaming Band members and Parents and Fans. It was also held with TV cameras and all sorts of dignitaries. When the awards were given in our class we got a 4th Place trophy instead of the 2nd place we thought we had one. In fact the Band that got the 2nd Place Award had played the Same March and we were convinced we had beaten this school. Our Head Director, Ross Davis, one of the most decorated Judges in the SCSBOA went to pick up our score sheets as I took the Band back to the buses. We were not happy campers.

 

Ross met me at the Buses and said there had been a major problem in the music scoring. In CA you have to provide copies of the music score to the music judges. It seems that one of the 3 music judges had wrongly placed our Score of the March in another schools packet and sent it to the judges for tabulation. We received the other schools score for the music instead. They also played Barnum and Baileys Favorite.

 

Let this be clear to our Band and 12,000 people we were 4th Place not the 2nd place we should have been. How did this happen.

A week before the All Western one of the music judges contacted SCSBOA and informed the chief judge that he had been given a diagnosis of an inoperable Brain Tumor which would take his life in 6 months. The judge had been given medicine to handle the blackouts and headaches that were causing him a great deal of pain. . The Honor of judging at All Western in CA was a High Honor for those selected for this event. The Chief Judge was asked to allow the Judge in Question to serve as one of the Music Judges. The Medical Dr. serving as the Judges Physician felt that there would be no problems him judging. That day when we marched past the Judges we received the 3rd Highest music score of 72 Bands, however when the tabulators got the scores, in our packet were the results of another Band who did not score anywhere near us. The Judge in question had a blackout after the other Band went through and when he came out of the blackout he changed the score sheets for two schools. The Judge was contacted by both Schools and the SCSBOA. He admitted that this error had been his and he blamed the blackout for the mistake. The directors of both schools and the SCSBOA agreed that no good could come of announcing that a Judge with a Terminal Illness had made a mistake. As Ross reminded me. THIS IS HIGH SCHOOL BAND, A persons life and career mean more to us than a Trophy.

 

When we got back to the Bus, we told the Band this. "You Did an Outstanding Job. We feel that you should have finished higher. It did not happen today. However we are proud of each and every one of you" Some day you will understand things we cannot tell you"

In 1985 at the Band Alumni dinner for the Band of 73 and 74, shortly before Ross Davis passing, he told the Band what happened. To a person they agreed that the trophy was not worth ruining the legacy of a judge

 

This is how you should look at this event.

Wow, that is just a truly incredible story. Incredibly sad for that judge and for your band. Also incredibly moving that you and the head director would make the hard choice of saving a man’s reputation over getting justice for your band. Impressive stuff, there. I feel like those are the truly valuable lessons that we learn in life. Having integrity. That’s what matters at the end of the day.

[TxDragonDad]

Back in 2012 when PESH made it to state (they made BOA SA Finals that year) they had a judge that marked them next to last in music I believe (so maybe 30th, I don't have the exact data) .  Had it not been for that one score they would have made the finals there too.   It knocked them down to 19th I believe.   Yeah, It would be nice not to see this kind of situation again.   

 

I think if enough people see the risk, change is possible.   I am trying to show to my child that sometimes bad thing happen to good people through no fault of their own.  The best reaction is to look for ways to make things better, especially if you won't ever benefit from the improvement.  Leave a legacy that helps others.    Hopefully this example will add yours to make the point that change is needed.

[Mmalpica9]

There are two quotes from Randy Pausch's "the Last Lecture" that I think applies here:

 

"The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. Because the brick walls are there to stop the people who don’t want it badly enough. They’re there to stop the other people."

 

and...

 

"Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. "

 

with 3 kids we have experienced all kind of situations on any kind of environments (the referee annulling a valid goal in state finals, a judge not noticing points scored in a tae kwon do sparring tournament or not making the dance team) they were powerful drawbacks that somehow defined their next steps...

 

I guess eventually a video analytics program will be able to analyze a marching band and score it in the most un-biased way... I'm not sure if we would want that. Music is like food or other artistic activities... are subjective in nature. It sucks when the subjectivity affect us but this is the life of the artists... and all the kids marching this weekend, putting countless hours on practice... they are all artists. They'll be hurt, learn and come back stronger.

[Rudedog34]

 

Congrats to all the bands who qualified for 6A UIL State competition in 2018! Wow. So many talented performers and programs. Texas reins above all in this regard. The top bands brought amazing shows and performed them splendidly. Wow, just wow! My comments below should not take anything away from those bands.

 

I've been waiting to decide what to post about all this.

 

It is no surprise that Round Rock kids are working through the emotions of the reality of the judging scores. The fact is that 1 judge was 23 rank points away from the average of the other 4 judges and that significance happened to cause them to cross over the finals qualifier threshold. In fact if J5 had agreed with J4's score, RR would have ended up 10th at Prelims. Round Rock knew that a Championship was a LONG shot. But their goal was to make finals at state.

 

From what I saw, they had a lot of work to do to achieve that goal. Each performance they brought more to the field. Their State Prelims run was their best yet. They truly out marched all the other prior performances. Those 4 judges' scores validate this truth. Given BOA Austin Area, BOA SA, they weren't expected to get much higher than 17th at State. The band had their sites set on 12th, to make finals. It is such a travesty to watch these excellent performers continue to push and improve toward their goal. They made huge strides each day. They were on path to reach their goal They knew it, too. Despite being predicted to be somewhere near 17th place, they knew they could achieve higher. They worked for it. They had drive and passion. And according to 4 of the judges, they succeeded!

 

So there we are. An outlier score. "Happens every year", so I hear. Maybe somewhat but 27 rank places delta across the judges, every year? I may come across emotional. I am. But there is some mathematical significance to this situation (see more data below). This should never happen, to any band, ever again.

 

And if nothing changes in UIL scoring, your child is next to fall victim. Every parent on here needs to know that it is easy to dismiss as "just how it goes" until it happens to your only child on their senior year. Just take a moment and let that sink in. It doesn't matter that it was Round Rock who got hurt this year. It matters that some band full of seniors got hurt and your child and your band could be next... unless there is enough support to demand a change.

 

Some have offered up the solution of more judges and throw out top/bottom scores. The concern with this is cost. Let's consider this more fully. Say we want to retain 3 music and 2 marching scores, after throwing out top/bottom from each category. That means we need to add 2 more music judges and 2 more marching judges, four total. Just estimating lodging, airfare, and meals, plus compensation for time, I estimate that those four judges would cost about $6k. If UIL 6A competition has about 1500 paid ticket sales, then ticket prices would need to go up by $4 to cover that additional cost. So, Moms and Dads - would you pay $4 more per ticket to prevent the outlier problem from happening to your kids' band? (If ticket sales are 3,000, then that is only $2 more per ticket to cover costs.) Seems like a feasible suggestion.

 

Another idea is to use a statistical formula to identify outlier scores and reduce their weight when calculating the final ranking score. This would require a threshold of defining an outlier and then a sliding scale such that the correction does not overly compensate for the outlier but softens its impact. This type of approach requires no more judges and basically a single Excel spreadsheet template to interpret the raw scores into judge ranking and adjusted ranking. I've already drafted one, but need to tweak it some. (My day job is data modeling and analytics.) Would UIL be willing to take such a tool and simply enter judges scores (not the rankings) and let the tool soften outlier impact? They could key in several past event scores to test the tool for "face validity", etc. Do they want help solving the problem? Do you want to encourage them to seek a solution?

 

So it comes down to these simple questions:

1) Are significant outliers a problem?

2) What is significant?

3) Should UIL Address it?

4) Should there be an outlier test performed before final ranking?

5) Does it matter more when outliers impact placement across the finals qualifier threshold?

 

IMHO, every band parent and director should want UIL to pursue a solution to prevent outlier impact in the future, especially when it causes finals qualification issues.

 

Respectfully,

TXDragonDad

 

Some data from this year's prelim scoring:

When comparing the highest judge rank to the lowest judge rank for each band, we get the rank delta for each band. The average rank delta in prelims was 10.39, and the median was 10. The top 8 prelim bands all had rank deltas below 10, which suggests high agreement on the quality of their performances.

 

Round Rock had a rank delta of 27, followed by John Horn with a rank delta of 21. They were the only two bands with a rank delta above 17. In this event, anything above 17 appears to be significant. Round Rock's rank delta was 2.6 times the average & 2.7 times the median. This is not just a mild outlier situation, but an extreme one.

 

Also, I took each judge's rank and compared it with the average of the other four judges. I did this for every judge for every band.

J5 was the most significantly out of line.

J5's max deviation from average: 23.25 rank places. (That means J5's rank was 23.25 places away from the average of the other 4 judges!)

J2 max deviation from average: 12.50

The other judges were lower.

J5 was nearly 2x the outlier of the next judge and of each other judge.

 

Recall that Round Rock had a rank delta of 27, followed by John Horn with 21 rank spots. Round Rock lost placements while John Horn gained placements due to outlier impact.

 

These two bands were exceptionally skewed by a single judge. In both cases it was J5.

 

School    	Judge 1	Judge 2	Judge 3	Judge 4	Judge 5
Round Rock HS 	7	11	11	14	34
John Horn HS  	26	19	31	25	10

Outside of these observations, the rest of the scoring had no hugely significant deltas or outliers. There were additional "normal" outliers.

Very similar to the analysis I did for Area D. Inconsistencies abound. The anomalous scores "Do Not" reflect what should be an accurate measurement based on the governing body's judging rubric.

The way I see it, in BOA it's all about GE and the number of decibles created and is subject to a judges preference. Or what I call "Pie in the sky scoring".

In UIL it is supposed to be about the quality of music and marching and the combination there of. A judges preference should not come into play. At all. And UIL ranking should not be determined by people's choice.

Again. UIL Adjudicators should be held accountable and the systems for scoring should be updated.

 

Congrats to all the programs that competed for the big prize. They were all amazing shows and extremely deserving for placement in finals.

[PSHSMom]

Just wanted to say congrats to all of the bands who performed. It has been a challenging season between early school start dates in August to rain. rain, and more rain. To put out shows of this caliber is purely amazing. Although in order to compete these days it appears I need to move from PISD to one of the LISD areas!

[Parkwoodmom]

When will this system change??????!!! Been band watching since 2002...

[1998-2018]

There has been a great deal of concern expressed about UIL scoring, accountability, and whether or not UIL leadership is also concerned or even interested. I know the head of UIL Judging and I can assure you they are extremely concerned. However, UIL is not a dictatorship. When it comes to changing rules, it's more like a democracy. In fact you could argue it even has similarities to an electoral college. In the spring a presentation will be made to all the Directors regarding proposed changes. The significant opposition to change is coming from Directors, not leadership. The presentation will not be everything UIL leadership wants. It will represent a compromise they hope will pass. A Director from a small school with a handful of kids in their band program that never achieves a Division I rating at the Region level will have the same vote as the Director of Allen High School, representing over 700 band kids, or the Directors of the SMBC Finalist. Maybe that's fair or maybe not. Either way that's how it works.

 

Blaming "UIL" for this is a bit too nonspecific. This issue is squarely in the hands of the Directors. They need to stop complaining and start influencing!

 

Do you know if your Director plans to vote for change? What have they done to persuade others, particularly at small schools, to also support change? Have they told Directors who are resistant to change the stories of bands negatively affected by judging deviations? Have they listened to the concerns of those small school Directors and helped them overcome misunderstandings regarding how change will affect them? Have they mentored those Directors through the changes that will affect them?

 

You want accountability? It start with Directors. I have a question for all of you. What is your Director doing about this?

[1998-2018]

On a positive note regarding UIL Judging, I now have a new favorite judging comment.

 

During Keller's Prelim run one of the Judges said, "I was enjoying your Color Guard so much that for a minute there I actually forgot I was judging this contest!"

 

That's high praise if you ask me. When my daughter told me the Directors had shared it with them she was practically glowing and said, "That's pretty cool for a contest where Color Guard doesn't even count." It made her day.

[El Gato_01]

Question.

Does anyone know if the box5 subscription allows for replays? I would love to see that VR show again but with the directors camera view (one that mixes both high cam and field cams).

[LHSax]

I’m a little late to the party, but let me add just one more...WOW! Vista. Freaking. Ridge. I’ve been saving that ‘wow’ because I’ve been pondering a lot of thoughts that I’ve held on to throughout the season that I felt like trying to put into coherent thoughts, namely revolving around-

 

1. How does a band that had spent most of its 15 years as a fringe finalist at most big competitions, had never finished in the top 20 of a 6A/5A UIL State completion, and had only (barely) made one BOA SA finals appearance (in a year in which I think they missed Austin finals mind you), put together a season as iconic as what we just witnessed?
2. Will this be a flash in the pan kind of season with a one of a kind show where we see VR take a step down next season, or is this a whole new Vista powerhouse that is here to stay?

 

Now the second question we obviously won’t know much about for a year (but I have a hunch), and it’s probably too early to think about it before celebrating that victory more. But the 1st one I’ve thought about a lot.

 

I’ve often compared this show (in my head) to Phantom ‘08. It’s a show that may not be the hardest, and may not be he cleanest, but it’s so darn moving and so well assembled that it was unbelievably easy to forgive a hiccup or 2, and you’re so busy being sucked into the show, that difficulty is the last thing on your mind. Phantom rode that wave of fan support to a championship, and Vista just did the exact same thing (look at their weekend - 7th-4th-2nd-1st). I like to compare it to what makes a good movie. For the best cinema in the world, you end up forgetting you’re watching a movie while watching it, only to be snapped out of the trance once the credits role. That’s how this show felt. For 8 minutes, the rest of the world didn’t matter. All that mattered, was the “Vista. Ridge. Ranger. Band.”

 

And the hype started slowly. As is typical, LISD south had their early season videos out before anyone else. I said something along the lines of Leander and Vandegrift looking unstoppable (and I believe I correctly predicted a Vandy medal), and may have tagged on that Vista looked “pretty good” too. It looked to be shaping up to be another year where the heavy hitters would keep hitting, and Vista would be looking to get over a hump and into finals. And then the show started to come together. Props started to appear. Uniforms made their debut, and Vista actually kept a bit more quiet than typical (posted less early season videos) up until BOA Austin. And then the secret was unveiled...

 

The Lost Chorale, that finally broke the typical “solo-buildup-turn and blow” that had become a staple of Vista openers to date, and instead grabbed your attention in a very nuanced way. The main opener, that said “we’re about to take you on an emotional journey, but we’re gonna show off some ridiculous technique while doing so.” And then that ballad. When I heard this ballad the first time, that’s when I knew this wasn’t your average Vista Ridge band. This was something else entirely. I honestly can’t name many memorable VR ballads over the years, but this one will stick in my head for a long time. The movement throughout is so subtle, but so intentional. The backfield chords are so haunting, and this is the part I probably regret the most that I live so far away and could never experience live. The sax/flugelhorn hand-off was NAILS every. single. time. And then the groove movement, which in my mind was Vista saying - we’ve arrived. Deal with it. The attitude in this part is just beaming, even through streams.

 

All of that was enough to get them up with the big dogs at BOA Austin, finally breaking into the top half. But it’s the closer that ties all the magic together. In other iterations of amazing grace on the field, there tends to be a lot of flowing mello runs, or nifty glissandos, but the version Vista does is just pure in your face brass. I think what makes this even more powerful is that there isn’t a lot of big long sustained notes throughout the show, so this moment feels like a true destination that everything has been building to(maybe like they were found...or something). And I don’t think any ending would’ve completed this show more than the push to the company front.

 

But obviously we’ve all gushed about this show plenty this year, so what I also want to delve into (if you’ve made it this far), is what other bands will take away from this show. And what’s crazy is, This show wasn’t able to do what it did because it was super progressive, or pushed the boundaries of marching band. We’re not talking Bluecoats 2016 here. What this show I believe will teach other bands, is the power of a design team where every single designed element and moment in the show is intentional and integrated. Every drill move is tied to the music, every visual is designed for maximum impact. What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in these design meetings, because this team put it ALL together. 

 

Vista obviously hinged a lot of their success this year on their visual package. They won the visual caption at BOA Austin, did pretty well in that category at boa SA, and swept the visual judges in area and state finals. Hinshaw's been doing Vista’s drill for a few years now, but I’ve personally felt like they’ve gotten a little bit of his b-side drill compared to what he has done with Avon in the past. This year was a whole other story. This was classic Hinshaw, where every set is intentional and had purpose. It’s also drill that looks good, without being too exposed to tiny mistakes. Combine that with a new director from Grain Valley, and maybe the lesson here is - people from outside Texas get marching more than we do? It’s well known that Texas bands generally struggle at the top level in winning visual captions in national events. Maybe we just need a bit more of an influence from them? I'm mostly joking, but seriously, the off season hire obviously played major dividends, show design aside. This band moved with more precision and more confidence than it ever had come close to in the past. Having a growing color guard that is finally becoming a force doesn’t hurt either. The move back to a color guard from a dance team was risky one that led to a couple rough years, but it’s definitely paying off now.

 

I actually don't think Vista changed too much from their usual musical formula (other than the surprisingly mature ballad and gentle opening). They've always done a good job of integrating music that is recognizable and often seen on the field, with unique music that I don't think anyone has ever put on the field. Ryan George has often done an amazing job at this (And on a side note I'm just now realizing he did the Boston Crusaders show that is often compared thematically to this one and who ALSO had a big season...what a year for him). The biggest difference, as some have pointed out as criticism, is the large number of solos in this show. I agree, they probably had more solos than most...but it's the layering of these solos into the ebb and flow of this show that was done to perfection. The trade-off of the trombone solo. The way the soprano solo soars over the band in the ballad. The way that these solos are featured visually, not just with the props, but with the way the band/guard directs focus to them. And the fact that these soloists were SO FREAKING GOOD. Sure, solos mean the whole band isn't playing as often as others, but these solos fit so well into the show that it's really hard to criticize them. 

 

But what this mostly tells other bands of course is that it just takes a collaborative design effort to create an integrated theme and a dedication and commitment to performing the heck out of that theme to make this kind of leap. What makes this jump so unprecedented, is that when you see these sudden rises to contention, it’s usually bands that are new and, after good years during the time that the school is filling out, they finally get a full band and emerge as much anticipated contenders. Vista ridge has been around for 15 years. This isn’t a band that grew up into contention. It’s a band that made a few adjustments to staff and how they approach a show design and finally emerged from the thick of “good bands” in Texas to one of the greats. There’s a whole slew of bands that finished in the 15-30 range that can certainly be truly inspired by this, in thinking it isn’t impossible for next year to be special, just like Vista’s was. I think this was the parody TX bands has lacked the past few years. It’s been generally the same finalists and the same medalists for the past 5+ years, and it’s been even worse at UIL. Texas marching band is more fun when there are surprises and the season is full of the unexpected. There are plenty of diamonds in the rough that sometimes just takes a little push in the right direction to be found. Expect more of that next year.

 

That went on a lot longer than I initially set out for...The fact that I had all that to say about a marching band show is probably more of a testament to how good this show was than anything i said about it...what a season! Let’s hope this motivates them to finally make the leap to grand nationals. It’s time to introduce themselves to Indianapolis! This will be a show that I will always regret never seeing live. But I thank everyone here for painting the picture for me so vividly. As I mentioned before, this has been an unbelievably active season for this board, and I love it! 

[Samuel Culper]

Wow, what a wonderful wall of words to read. I appreciate your insights.

 

If you can somehow make it to Cedar Park tomorrow night, there is one more chance to see the show live!

[Mash]

I’m a little late to the party, but let me add just one more...WOW! Vista. Freaking. Ridge. I’ve been saving that ‘wow’ because I’ve been pondering a lot of thoughts that I’ve held on to throughout the season that I felt like trying to put into coherent thoughts, namely revolving around-

 

1. How does a band that had spent most of its 15 years as a fringe finalist at most big competitions, had never finished in the top 20 of a 6A/5A UIL State completion, and had only (barely) made one BOA SA finals appearance (in a year in which I think they missed Austin finals mind you), put together a season as iconic as what we just witnessed?

2. Will this be a flash in the pan kind of season with a one of a kind show where we see VR take a step down next season, or is this a whole new Vista powerhouse that is here to stay?

 

Now the second question we obviously won’t know much about for a year (but I have a hunch), and it’s probably too early to think about it before celebrating that victory more. But the 1st one I’ve thought about a lot.

 

I’ve often compared this show (in my head) to Phantom ‘08. It’s a show that may not be the hardest, and may not be he cleanest, but it’s so darn moving and so well assembled that it was unbelievably easy to forgive a hiccup or 2, and you’re so busy being sucked into the show, that difficulty is the last thing on your mind. Phantom rode that wave of fan support to a championship, and Vista just did the exact same thing (look at their weekend - 7th-4th-2nd-1st). I like to compare it to what makes a good movie. For the best cinema in the world, you end up forgetting you’re watching a movie while watching it, only to be snapped out of the trance once the credits role. That’s how this show felt. For 8 minutes, the rest of the world didn’t matter. All that mattered, was the “Vista. Ridge. Ranger. Band.”

 

And the hype started slowly. As is typical, LISD south had their early season videos out before anyone else. I said something along the lines of Leander and Vandegrift looking unstoppable (and I believe I correctly predicted a Vandy medal), and may have tagged on that Vista looked “pretty good” too. It looked to be shaping up to be another year where the heavy hitters would keep hitting, and Vista would be looking to get over a hump and into finals. And then the show started to come together. Props started to appear. Uniforms made their debut, and Vista actually kept a bit more quiet than typical (posted less early season videos) up until BOA Austin. And then the secret was unveiled...

 

The Lost Chorale, that finally broke the typical “solo-buildup-turn and blow” that had become a staple of Vista openers to date, and instead grabbed your attention in a very nuanced way. The main opener, that said “we’re about to take you on an emotional journey, but we’re gonna show off some ridiculous technique while doing so.” And then that ballad. When I heard this ballad the first time, that’s when I knew this wasn’t your average Vista Ridge band. This was something else entirely. I honestly can’t name many memorable VR ballads over the years, but this one will stick in my head for a long time. The movement throughout is so subtle, but so intentional. The backfield chords are so haunting, and this is the part I probably regret the most that I live so far away and could never experience live. The sax/flugelhorn hand-off was NAILS every. single. time. And then the groove movement, which in my mind was Vista saying - we’ve arrived. Deal with it. The attitude in this part is just beaming, even through streams.

 

All of that was enough to get them up with the big dogs at BOA Austin, finally breaking into the top half. But it’s the closer that ties all the magic together. In other iterations of amazing grace on the field, there tends to be a lot of flowing mello runs, or nifty glissandos, but the version Vista does is just pure in your face brass. I think what makes this even more powerful is that there isn’t a lot of big long sustained notes throughout the show, so this moment feels like a true destination that everything has been building to(maybe like they were found...or something). And I don’t think any ending would’ve completed this show more than the push to the company front.

 

But obviously we’ve all gushed about this show plenty this year, so what I also want to delve into (if you’ve made it this far), is what other bands will take away from this show. And what’s crazy is, This show wasn’t able to do what it did because it was super progressive, or pushed the boundaries of marching band. We’re not talking Bluecoats 2016 here. What this show I believe will teach other bands, is the power of a design team where every single designed element and moment in the show is intentional and integrated. Every drill move is tied to the music, every visual is designed for maximum impact. What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in these design meetings, because this team put it ALL together. 

 

Vista obviously hinged a lot of their success this year on their visual package. They won the visual caption at BOA Austin, did pretty well in that category at boa SA, and swept the visual judges in area and state finals. Hinshaw's been doing Vista’s drill for a few years now, but I’ve personally felt like they’ve gotten a little bit of his b-side drill compared to what he has done with Avon in the past. This year was a whole other story. This was classic Hinshaw, where every set is intentional and had purpose. It’s also drill that looks good, without being too exposed to tiny mistakes. Combine that with a new director from Grain Valley, and maybe the lesson here is - people from outside Texas get marching more than we do? It’s well known that Texas bands generally struggle at the top level in winning visual captions in national events. Maybe we just need a bit more of an influence from them? I'm mostly joking, but seriously, the off season hire obviously played major dividends, show design aside. This band moved with more precision and more confidence than it ever had come close to in the past. Having a growing color guard that is finally becoming a force doesn’t hurt either. The move back to a color guard from a dance team was risky one that led to a couple rough years, but it’s definitely paying off now.

 

I actually don't think Vista changed too much from their usual musical formula (other than the surprisingly mature ballad and gentle opening). They've always done a good job of integrating music that is recognizable and often seen on the field, with unique music that I don't think anyone has ever put on the field. Ryan George has often done an amazing job at this (And on a side note I'm just now realizing he did the Boston Crusaders show that is often compared thematically to this one and who ALSO had a big season...what a year for him). The biggest difference, as some have pointed out as criticism, is the large number of solos in this show. I agree, they probably had more solos than most...but it's the layering of these solos into the ebb and flow of this show that was done to perfection. The trade-off of the trombone solo. The way the soprano solo soars over the band in the ballad. The way that these solos are featured visually, not just with the props, but with the way the band/guard directs focus to them. And the fact that these soloists were SO FREAKING GOOD. Sure, solos mean the whole band isn't playing as often as others, but these solos fit so well into the show that it's really hard to criticize them. 

 

But what this mostly tells other bands of course is that it just takes a collaborative design effort to create an integrated theme and a dedication and commitment to performing the heck out of that theme to make this kind of leap. What makes this jump so unprecedented, is that when you see these sudden rises to contention, it’s usually bands that are new and, after good years during the time that the school is filling out, they finally get a full band and emerge as much anticipated contenders. Vista ridge has been around for 15 years. This isn’t a band that grew up into contention. It’s a band that made a few adjustments to staff and how they approach a show design and finally emerged from the thick of “good bands” in Texas to one of the greats. There’s a whole slew of bands that finished in the 15-30 range that can certainly be truly inspired by this, in thinking it isn’t impossible for next year to be special, just like Vista’s was. I think this was the parody TX bands has lacked the past few years. It’s been generally the same finalists and the same medalists for the past 5+ years, and it’s been even worse at UIL. Texas marching band is more fun when there are surprises and the season is full of the unexpected. There are plenty of diamonds in the rough that sometimes just takes a little push in the right direction to be found. Expect more of that next year.

 

That went on a lot longer than I initially set out for...The fact that I had all that to say about a marching band show is probably more of a testament to how good this show was than anything i said about it...what a season! Let’s hope this motivates them to finally make the leap to grand nationals. It’s time to introduce themselves to Indianapolis! This will be a show that I will always regret never seeing live. But I thank everyone here for painting the picture for me so vividly. As I mentioned before, this has been an unbelievably active season for this board, and I love it! 

Wow, great write up.  If you can make it Friday to Cedar Park, they are performing it one more time.   My goodness the stands maybe fuller than I have ever seen them.

 

BTW, there will be a football game opening for the band :-)

[Rudedog34]

Wow, great write up. If you can make it Friday to Cedar Park, they are performing it one more time. My goodness the stands maybe fuller than I have ever seen them.

 

BTW, there will be a football game opening for the band :-)

 

[PLC137]

On a more positive note, wasn't great to spend the whole day - Election Day, no less - enjoying the performances with no politics and no one in your face telling you how to vote?   

[Mmalpica9]

I actually didn't reviewed the results of the election until next day

I didn't want anything to take me out of my state of elation from such a great competition.

[LHSax]

Wow, what a wonderful wall of words to read. I appreciate your insights.

 

If you can somehow make it to Cedar Park tomorrow night, there is one more chance to see the show live!

 

If I wasn't a thousand miles away, I'd be there in a heartbeat. What an amazing environment that will be!

 

Can't wait to move back to Texas in a couple years!

[LostChoirGuy]

I'll be in Texas /next/ Friday night if any bands are performing their competition show? I know it's a long shot...

[Jeffrey L. Gorman]

There has been a great deal of concern expressed about UIL scoring, accountability, and whether or not UIL leadership is also concerned or even interested. I know the head of UIL Judging and I can assure you they are extremely concerned. However, UIL is not a dictatorship. When it comes to changing rules, it's more like a democracy. In fact you could argue it even has similarities to an electoral college. In the spring a presentation will be made to all the Directors regarding proposed changes. The significant opposition to change is coming from Directors, not leadership. The presentation will not be everything UIL leadership wants. It will represent a compromise they hope will pass. A Director from a small school with a handful of kids in their band program that never achieves a Division I rating at the Region level will have the same vote as the Director of Allen High School, representing over 700 band kids, or the Directors of the SMBC Finalist. Maybe that's fair or maybe not. Either way that's how it works.

 

Blaming "UIL" for this is a bit too nonspecific. This issue is squarely in the hands of the Directors. They need to stop complaining and start influencing!

 

Do you know if your Director plans to vote for change? What have they done to persuade others, particularly at small schools, to also support change? Have they told Directors who are resistant to change the stories of bands negatively affected by judging deviations? Have they listened to the concerns of those small school Directors and helped them overcome misunderstandings regarding how change will affect them? Have they mentored those Directors through the changes that will affect them?

 

You want accountability? It start with Directors. I have a question for all of you. What is your Director doing about this?

To determine what to expect look at each of the 33 Regions of UIL and match the number of High Schools in the Region  with how many schools go to BOA Or US Bands vs those that do not go. Also look at the numbers of students in each school and the percentage enrolled in Bands.  These decisions are not just in music, but in all areas of UIL Activity.  To make things work, both sides of issues have to talk things out, neither of which in my opinion have been willing to do on a frequent basis.