2018 6A State

[jmj]

  On 11/6/2018 at 4:52 AM, LeanderMomma said:

She certainly did, with the Leander Band in fact.

She helped the Leander Band achieve some absolutely amazing shows in the late 90s/2000. This includes one of my all-time faves: The Music of Rimsky-Korsakov in 2000 when Leander got 3rd in prelims (performing 1st!) and then 6th in finals in 5A state finals (then the largest classification). The way that the tarps were integrated into the drill in that show was so cool. It also featured (in my opinion) the finest rendition of Dance of the Tumblers ever brought to the marching field.

[froggie]

You are correct - about both points of your last statement. I’m not sure anyone can explain the 34 ordinal but the judge.

 

A point about TW - They performed at 8:30 am (first of the contest). The BOA judges are used to evaluating 30+ bands on a single day and utilizing that experience to fairly compare all bands hours apart. The judges at state marching contest rarely IF EVER judge 40 groups and have to place that many in order from first to last across 12+ hours.

 

Because of that and the fact that the “music” and “marching’ sheets give the adjudicator very broad discretion to assign a score, I can RARELY HAVE ANY CONFIDENCE IN THE ACCURACY OF STATE PRELIMINARY SCORING.

 

I feel bad for Round Rock, for The Woodlands, and for all bands at this contest. I’m not sure that the structure of this contest will ever assure fair adjudicating unless many changes are made.

[Avisshadow]

  On 11/6/2018 at 4:49 AM, TWHSParent said:

For those curious, the ordinal spread between 12th and 13th was 13. Round Rock and Oak Ridge tied with judges preference going to Round Rock.

Considering that this is Oak Ridge’s first time ever making state, and just 2 years ago was their first time ever making just area finals (I think), it is so cool to see them that close to making finals at state.

[Brassy]

I’m not sure that Waxahachie qualifies as a “wealthy” district. We are 55% free and reduced lunch. Our band is very diverse and our dues are only $200 dollars with the boosters supplementing many of thiose dues. This is a huge win for us anyway you look at it.

[principalagent]

  On 11/6/2018 at 5:12 AM, Brassy said:

I’m not sure that Waxahachie qualifies as a “wealthy” district. We are 55% free and reduced lunch. Our band is very diverse and our dues are only $200 dollars with the boosters supplementing many of thiose dues. This is a huge win for us anyway you look at it.

Happy to stand corrected on this issue, and it does settle my concerns quite some bit. So happy to see how successful your band is among some long-standing giants!

[Jeffrey L. Gorman]

  On 11/6/2018 at 4:55 AM, the terminator said:

Duncanville when I competed was always a marvel to me because despite the challenging situation many students were in they played so well and their marching was always very clean, and it made you believe that anyone could be great at music. I love my alma mater(Wakeland), but as things progressed I truly realized the advantages we had that did make a huge difference in determining our success.

Duncanville was an example of a Band that devoted a great deal of time to their musical performance. I saw their last SMC Championshp performance in 2002 when they beat a great LD Bell Band in the Rain, snow and sleet at Baylor University. Thank these folks for insuring that after 2002 the UIL never required Bands to compete in that type of weather for the State Title. After 2002 they were very competitive, however the amount of money other districts had made it difficult. Before every says this is false, did you notice that not one Band from the RGV made the finals, nor did anyone from El Paso.   I think the best Bands made it to the finals, If waxahachie  had been at BOA, they very probably would have been in the finals on Saturday. With only one difference, the top 12 Bands at UIL match the Bands at BOA.  While most of the contributors rate judging by BOA to be better, I noticed many complaints after the results on Saturday. Folks Judging is still an art and as long as people do it, we will have differences.  One question to those who are critical of the judges, did you look up the credentials of the Judges who are doing the UIL Championships. These are outstanding individuals, who have not only done UIL but done BOA and other Circuits. 

[Drum Alumni]

I'm a couple years removed from the band life and this has given me some perspective on these contests. I can remember the excitement and pure joy that came with winning a contest or placing higher than I expected. However, I can also remember the heartbreak and anger that comes with losing even though I gave it my all. That being said I feel horrible for Round Rock. It's clear that they did everything they could to earn that finals spot, but because of one judge they are heading home furious and crushed. 34th? There is always going to be different opinions from different judges, and this is good. It makes a subjective scoring system more fair. But 34th? Looking at that judges scoring I am genuinely outraged. One or two off scores I understand but outside of the top 8ish its almost like they just mailed it in and drew scores out of a hat. It's so simple to solve this. Add two more judges and drop the highest and lowest scores. These kids, directors, and parents have worked so hard for months just to be denied a shot at a championship because of one persons opinion. I realize I'm just ranting at this point, but I had to voice my opinion on this absolute failure of a judging system. Round Rock, I'm sorry.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 11/6/2018 at 5:27 AM, Drum Alumni said:

I'm a couple years removed from the band life and this has given me some perspective on these contests. I can remember the excitement and pure joy that came with winning a contest or placing higher than I expected. However, I can also remember the heartbreak and anger that comes with losing even though I gave it my all. That being said I feel horrible for Round Rock. It's clear that they did everything they could to earn that finals spot, but because of one judge they are heading home furious and crushed. 34th? There is always going to be different opinions from different judges, and this is good. It makes a subjective scoring system more fair. But 34th? Looking at that judges scoring I am genuinely outraged. One or two off scores I understand but outside of the top 8ish its almost like they just mailed it in and drew scores out of a hat. It's so simple to solve this. Add two more judges and drop the highest and lowest scores. These kids, directors, and parents have worked so hard for months just to be denied a shot at a championship because of one persons opinion. I realize I'm just ranting at this point, but I had to voice my opinion on this absolute failure of a judging system. Round Rock, I'm sorry.

I was going to say the exact same thing as far as a fix for UIL widely varying results go. Add two more judges and drop the lowest and highest scores. Seems so simple.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 11/6/2018 at 5:20 AM, Jeffrey L. Gorman said:

Duncanville was an example of a Band that devoted a great deal of time to their musical performance. I saw their last SMC Championshp performance in 2002 when they beat a great LD Bell Band in the Rain, snow and sleet at Baylor University. Thank these folks for insuring that after 2002 the UIL never required Bands to compete in that type of weather for the State Title. After 2002 they were very competitive, however the amount of money other districts had made it difficult. Before every says this is false, did you notice that not one Band from the RGV made the finals, nor did anyone from El Paso. I think the best Bands made it to the finals, If waxahachie had been at BOA, they very probably would have been in the finals on Saturday. With only one difference, the top 12 Bands at UIL match the Bands at BOA. While most of the contributors rate judging by BOA to be better, I noticed many complaints after the results on Saturday. Folks Judging is still an art and as long as people do it, we will have differences. One question to those who are critical of the judges, did you look up the credentials of the Judges who are doing the UIL Championships. These are outstanding individuals, who have not only done UIL but done BOA and other Circuits.

I’m sure they are outstanding individuals, I’m just not sure about the UIL process over all. It hasn’t changed or been updated in a very long time, if ever.

[ChristopherRoden]

I was quite shocked at bands like Hendrickson placing so low. Of course I’d have liked Clements to place higher, but it’s not surprising I’d like my own band to place higher.

[Txpharmguy]

  On 11/6/2018 at 2:41 AM, LeanderMomma said:

I love the trumpet soloist in Round Rock’s show. ❤️

I've loved him since the day he was born. #prouddad

[Drum Alumni]

  On 11/6/2018 at 5:37 AM, LeanderMomma said:

I was going to say the exact same thing as far as a fix for UIL widely varying results go. Add two more judges and drop the lowest and highest scores. Seems so simple.

I remember people calling for this change back in 2011. I just don't understand how UIL can continue to let this happen year after year.

[bingogooberman]

John Horn in 22nd!! That show is really something else

[A Testing Trumpet]

I had no idea prelims was on Monday and I am feeling so many emotions right now

[Drum Alumni]

  On 11/6/2018 at 5:51 AM, A Testing Trumpet said:

I had no idea prelims was on Monday and I am feeling so many emotions right now

I feel for you man...

[Guest]

Anyone have the 32nd to 41st placements.

[makebeats]

really interested to see what Katy HS got, we heard really good things about them from our Area I friends and were kinda shocked that they weren't in finals!

[Jeffrey L. Gorman]

  On 11/6/2018 at 5:39 AM, LeanderMomma said:

I’m sure they are outstanding individuals, I’m just not sure about the UIL process over all. It hasn’t changed or been updated in a very long time, if ever.

It was told to me that when you have a large number of Bands such as we had today, the chance for this happening is great. CTJ got a 24th position a couple of years ago.   The source said something like this is not as prevelent in Class A-AAAA due to the smaller number of Bands. Class AA will only have 17 Bands to compete and only 7 will advance tomorrow. The problem with throwing a High Score and a low score out is that if you add two more judges do you then go to 4 Music and 3 M&M. What if the High and Low rating judges are in the same discipline, IE Music, or M &M.  I know that each of the Judges for today and tomorrow have taken their Bands to SMC before. Most have judged BOA and DCI events along with other circuits  Most are directors of University Bands.   It is not any easy solution.  If Round Rock had not gotten the 34th place position from one Judge, another Band would have been knocked out. Usually if you look at the Ordinals, the top 3 Bands are pretty consistently rated the same by all the Judges.  UIL looks at this every two years. 

[A Testing Trumpet]

After placing 26th place at BOA San Antonio, It would be a lie to say I wasn't concerned for Round Rock. Yet here they are, 13th place at UIL State Prelims. I can tell that they gave it every single ounce they had, and I am so proud of them tonight.  At the exact same time, I am feeling furious at UIL for the one judge that had them so far out of finals. They have been through one heck of a season this year, and they deserve to know that at the end,  at this one last performance, they proved that they still have it them to kick some major butt. Great Job!!!     

[herbaflerb]

I know a few people already touched on this, but I am so upset with J5. I’m not a huge fan of Round Rock (go CR!!) but wow. They were Round Robbed tonight.

[Drum Alumni]

  On 11/6/2018 at 6:03 AM, Jeffrey L. Gorman said:

It was told to me that when you have a large number of Bands such as we had today, the chance for this happening is great. CTJ got a 24th position a couple of years ago.   The source said something like this is not as prevelent in Class A-AAAA due to the smaller number of Bands. Class AA will only have 17 Bands to compete and only 7 will advance tomorrow. The problem with throwing a High Score and a low score out is that if you add two more judges do you then go to 4 Music and 3 M&M. What if the High and Low rating judges are in the same discipline, IE Music, or M &M.  I know that each of the Judges for today and tomorrow have taken their Bands to SMC before. Most have judged BOA and DCI events along with other circuits  Most are directors of University Bands.   It is not any easy solution.  If Round Rock had not gotten the 34th place position from one Judge, another Band would have been knocked out. Usually if you look at the Ordinals, the top 3 Bands are pretty consistently rated the same by all the Judges.  UIL looks at this every two years. 

I agree that there are challenges, but there has to be some sort of fail safe here. It's true Round Rock could have knocked someone out, but who's to say that they didn't knock them out because they played better? And even if the top three bands are scored consistently, there are still 30 to 40 other bands that deserve a fair score that is representative of their performance. Especially those bands on the edge of making finals or not. For some of these bands that know they likely wont challenge for a medal, making finals is like winning the whole contest! I say add the two judges and drop the lowest and highest, or potentially move to a more BOA style of judging. Either way something has to change to keep what happened today from happening.

[Omega]

Looking at the judges for all the days the only one that I know has never done BOA or DCI is Steve Wessels. Yet he has been head director at Cedar Park for God knows how long and is responsible for training all marching band judges in the state. These judges are all highly qualified, yet UIL gives judges a large amount of room to allow their tastes to dictate what wins. When you asked who sounds better, it depends on what a judge likes in their own sound. Marching the only way I can ever explain those oddities is the fact that the judges are put on the 30s so they really do see completely different shows.

[CharpieAg]

And if a judge simply doesn’t like the design of your show, you’re toast

[LeanderMomma]

  On 11/6/2018 at 5:43 AM, Txpharmguy said:

I've loved him since the day he was born. #prouddad

Awwww, he was terrific! I watched the directors cam so I could see the kids faces and their joy. Your son looked so pleased when he was done with his solo, as he should!! I so wish Round Rock had had a better season. They are so very good.

[Danpod]

Good morning.