2018 6A State

[principalagent]

Areas do have scores which convert to ranks/ordinals.

I’ve liked the idea that each area gets an extra advancer for each band that medals at state from their area. Or even an extra advancer if every band in that area makes state finals. That way, the strongest areas do get to send more bands after proving they should, in a sense.

[LeanderMomma]

I think the Judson ISD and San Antonio NISD schools feel the same way

 

Of course!  In fact I am sure many areas feel that way.  I sure as heck don't know how to fix that!!  

[LeanderMomma]

This topic is definitely getting a bit wearisome with trying not to hurt feelings.  There's certainly more of a "walking on eggshells" feeling when I'm posting in this thread.  I hope by now that most people know me well enough to know that I respect every single band program in this state!  Of course I am going to root for Leander and LISD because that is where I live and Leander is the program my daughter was associated with.  That does not automatically make me AGAINST all other programs or districts!  Just because I don't mention them doesn't mean I don't respect them.  I think a good number of us feel the same way.  Please don't take this all so personally.    

 

And let me mention again how moved I was by Alexander and their show this year.  I watched it again last night on YouTube.  So impressed!  I would love to see that show several more times and I'm sad I only saw it live once.  

[Rudedog34]

Reviewing ordinal scores/placements should be triggered by a percentage deviation. An ordinal point swing from 1 to 10 as happened at Area B or 1 to 9 at another Area is much more statistically significant than a swing from 74 to 84 or 100 to 110 as could theoretically happen at BOA SA or Indy Grand Nationals.

 

Percentage statistics are almost always more informative, revealing, and helpful than counting statistics.

Case on point:

 

Area D 20% anomalous outliers vs 6%.

[Jeffrey L. Gorman]

I think the Judson ISD and San Antonio NISD schools feel the same way

In regards to only sending 3 Bands to SMC, you might want to look at the UIL/TMEA Agreement on Alignment for marching bands for the 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 school years.   HTTPS//Align.TMEA.ORG/Align.1820/  It lists how many Bands it expects to advance to SMC based on previous history.   I think this explains some of the reasons why Bands are put in different areas.

[Jane D'oh]

Maybe it's time for a 7A classification (only sort of kidding).

[LeanderMomma]

Maybe it's time for a 7A classification (only sort of kidding).

 

I had the same thoughts up until Leander ISD took 1st, 3rd and 5th at 6A classification last week.  Leander is nearly half the size of the big San Antonio schools and the big DFW schools.  I'm not sure about Vista or Vandy, but I doubt they are that much bigger.  Maybe have 6A go up to schools with 2999 kids, and a new 7A class for schools with 3000 and up.  

[Samuel Culper]

Each time you add a new classification, travel costs for all sports, academic and fine arts competitions goes up for most schools, so I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

For reference purposes, here are the enrollment figures used for the last round of realignment by the UIL for all of the Finalists at this years 6A SMC:

 

Vista Ridge     2349

Flower Mound     3618

Vandegrift     2582

Hebron     3584

Leander     2199

Ronald Reagan     3518

CTJ     3083

Keller     2995

The Woodlands     4435

Marcus     3274

Cedar Ridge     2855

Waxahachie     2235

[BenedictCucumberpatch]

Does anyone have a recording of the Finals Performances from All bands?

[Mash]

Each time you add a new classification, travel costs for all sports, academic and fine arts competitions goes up for most schools, so I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

For reference purposes, here are the enrollment figures used for the last round of realignment by the UIL for all of the Finalists at this years 6A SMC:

 

Vista Ridge     2349

Flower Mound     3618

Vandegrift     2582

Hebron     3584

Leander     2199

Ronald Reagan     3518

CTJ     3083

Keller     2995

The Woodlands     4435

Marcus     3274

Cedar Ridge     2855

Waxahachie     2235

4435 students in one high school?  WOW!  that is a small college campus.

[principalagent]

The ninth graders at TWHS are at a separate campus.

[whitewing09]

I don’t know if this concept has been explored, but one game the band nerds I know like to play is top/bottom drop. You drop the top and bottom judges for each band then add the ordinals. This mitigate the risk of random judges, but keeps the integrity of the average judge.

 

Of course this would get awkward if a band’s top and bottom score are both in music.

[Samuel Culper]

Doing this would not have changed results in Finals.

[whitewing09]

 

Doing this would not have changed results in Finals.

Which insinuates that finals was fair, right? That’s the real goal. It’s not to say that one judge is right or not, it’s to say that 1) one judge did not have undue influence and 2) the band’s were ranked in the right order overall.

[1998-2018]

I've been away from TxBands for a couple days and had some catching up to do. I'm going to skip the quote process tonight and just share a few thoughts directly about what I just read. Some of it may repeat earlier comments to bring them back to the forefront because this monster conversation has been wondering and wagging its tail all through the weeds.

 

First, Mr. Move on, move on, move on... Just because this has happened before doesn't mean it has to happen again. If you're not contributing in a positive way or enjoying this difficult topic, maybe you would be happier if you just take your own advice and move on to another topic. Some of us are trying to explore possible solutions. Others are working through their grief and frustration. Your contributions are often helpful but you missed the mark this time. The same to others of a similar ilk.

 

Second, this is not about Round Rock or just this year. The Round Rock parents seem to understand they are just the latest example of a bigger issue. That point seems to be lost on some of you. Others are discouragingly indifferent.

 

Currently there is no "bad judge rule". That derogatory slang is part of what is confusing this issue. Yes, we need a solution to judging deviation but the perspective that accompanies that slang won't be well received by the UIL. The rule many of you are actually referring to is called the "judges preference rule" by the UIL. It has two main components. Application of one of them correctly advanced Leander to the SMBC where they made Finals. A perfect example of why the rule exists. The other component was rather haphazardly applied at Area B Finals due to the unclear way it was written. It was initially applied in a way that seemed consistent with the intent but was reversed the next day because making the rule scaleable was not expressly directed. Neither Keller or Waxahachie, the two bands involved, seemed overly concerned as both bands were advancing either way. It has be reported that UIL is reviewing and clarify whether or not application of the rule is scalable to include Area results. Understanding the rule and its intent would be helpful for those interested in how UIL currently deals with judging deviation.

 

Saying UIL doesn't care is both inaccurate and unfair. It also reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what and who the UIL is.

 

Saying Directors who just advanced to the 6A SMBC Finals don't care is also wildly inaccurate. These are the Directors most likely to support change. They have all felt the sting of judging deviation many times.

 

It would help if people stopped using the term UIL without understanding it and how rules get changed. For example when you blame "The Government" you are really blaming "We The People". That's who the government is in this country. If you don't like what's happening, get involved and vote. Similarly, when you blame "The UIL" you are really talking about "We The Directors" and how they vote. All the Directors in Texas have an opportunity to fix this in the spring. Some are very concerned about this and other big picture issues. Others could be described as indifferent. A third group is openly hostile to change of any kind. That's why I explained in an earlier post how important it is to know where your Director stands and what they are doing to either influence or impede change.

 

And yes, there is a decoder ring. But even if you have access to one it takes forever to learn how to use it correctly.

[TubaMomof1]

The ninth graders at TWHS are at a separate campus.

so they don't march in the band?

[principalagent]

so they don't march in the band?

They do. I think every band from a high school that has a separate freshman center marches those freshmen too. It’s only different in schools with separate “junior” high schools like in Plano ISD, or where junior high goes from 7-9, like HEB ISD.

[TWHSParent]

4435 students in one high school?  WOW!  that is a small college campus.

 

It is a big red no-drive zone during morning rush too. Avoid at almost all costs! My office is about 2 miles from the school, with the school between the office and home. Fortunately there are ways that thread between TWHS and TWCP, although I do have to go by TWCA. That is a much smaller school with much less traffic impact.

 

TWHS is one of the 10 largest enrollments in Texas. Allen is over 6000 and is the largest. There are a few over 5000 like the 3 Plano schools (at least by UIL numbers, but as stated there is a Jr/Sr High split physically in PISD).

[LeanderMomma]

It is a big red no-drive zone during morning rush too. Avoid at almost all costs! My office is about 2 miles from the school, with the school between the office and home. Fortunately there are ways that thread between TWHS and TWCP, although I do have to go by TWCA. That is a much smaller school with much less traffic impact.

 

TWHS is one of the 10 largest enrollments in Texas. Allen is over 6000 and is the largest. There are a few over 5000 like the 3 Plano schools (at least by UIL numbers, but as stated there is a Jr/Sr High split physically in PISD).

 

Those numbers blow my mind.  Why have The Woodlands not built more schools to accommodate that growth?  It feels like Leander is building a new high school every year, though I know it's more like every 4 to 5 years. 

 

I'm also not familiar with TWCA.  Is that the TW Christian?  

[takigan]

Those numbers blow my mind.  Why have The Woodlands not built more schools to accommodate that growth?

 

It's a big campus.  They broke the 5000 limit the year before College Park was built.

[LeanderMomma]

 

It's a big campus. They broke the 5000 limit the year before College Park was built.

Wow. #WhatASchool

[Samuel Culper]

Wow. #WhatASchool

Allen High School with almost 7,000 is quietly chuckling in the corner.

[LeanderMomma]

Allen High School with almost 7,000 is quietly chuckling in the corner.

oh I know!!!

[LostChoirGuy]

Yeah, the schools were designed to be that big. And CISD has opened several new schools. They just opened Grand Oaks to split from Oak Ridge. Then TWCP and Conroe are both large schools, themselves too.

[TWHSParent]

Those numbers blow my mind.  Why have The Woodlands not built more schools to accommodate that growth?  It feels like Leander is building a new high school every year, though I know it's more like every 4 to 5 years. 

 

I'm also not familiar with TWCA.  Is that the TW Christian?  

 

Yes, TWCA is The Woodlands Christian Academy.

 

Conroe ISD has 6 main high schools: Conroe, The Woodlands, College Park, Oak Ridge, Caney Creek, and Grand Oaks. TWHS, as was mentioned, is quite large and designed for the numbers it currently accommodates (grades 10-12 only). Much of it is 3 floors. There is a video on youtube showing the school:

 

As an area, The Woodlands is very nearly built out (pop is pushing 120,000), so most of the growth is happening in other areas of the district (hence Grand Oaks). TWHS will probably not increase enrollment too much over the next few years, unless they change the boundaries to relieve TWCP or Oak Ridge again (these 3 are very close together - maybe 3 miles from TWHS to Oak Ridge, and TWCP is very roughly midway between). The Woodlands is a little weird, as it isn't incorporated so there is no city council or anything like that. It is a township, with plans to incorporate in the future. Political wrangling was necessary to keep it from being annexed by Houston.