2018 BOA San Antonio?

[Mash]

I hope y'all are all right and nobody gets screwed.  The kids are all working hard in these final two weeks.

[LostChoirGuy]

Lets say that a new band worked really hard and was objectively the 10th best band to perform. They should be safely in finals right? Under the current scoring method, yes. But- hypothetically, if all 9 of the higher performing bands were in the same judging panel, it is impossible for more than 9 to make it into finals from that panel. So, that band that worked so hard and was the 10th best wouldnt make it in. Somewhere else, at least one band that was the 15th best or lower would have made it in to finals in the other judging panel. Now I know this is not likely to happen, but statistically, the best way to ensure that this doesnt happen is to spread previous finalists out across the panels because the stats show that if you have made finals within the past few years you are at a higher probability of being a "finalist-caliber" band again this year. The stats dont put the bands automatically in finals but they spread the competition so a band like the 10th place one I mentioned would only have to fight against 4 or 5 of them to get a spot in finals instead of all 9.

[GreedyGreen]

There is no “fair” way to help distribute different skill levels across a competition without looking at last years results. Nobody is saying that previous years results matter much at all, but it is one of the only things that can be used as reference. Nothing else makes any sense. Also just go look at programs like The Woodlands and Leander who are basically consistent finals locks, but their 2017 results had almost nothing to do with their 2016 results. If you didn’t spread groups out, then there is a chance (with how consistent the majority of finals is from year to year) that many groups who are really in the top 14 wouldn’t get to make finals because of how the panels have to pick finalists. I think using any kind of excuse like “judges have preferential bias” is nothing but that: an excuse. The goal is to provide groups with what they deserve and reward hard work. If a group deserves to make finals, the current system does its best to assure that they are recognized rather than swept under the rug.

[BenedictCucumberpatch]

  On 10/20/2018 at 11:56 PM, BandJunkies said:

Just watched UIL Region 12. I think Reagan beats CTJ at BOA. Not that my opinion counts for much, but there it is.

Oh absolutely. I think CTJ gets 4th this year. Reagan, along with TWHS and Flowermound will definitely beat them at BOA SA.

[justabandkid94]

BOA no. UIL yes... maybe

 

Hesistant to doubt Johnson’s ability to monstrously clean after last year.

[Fwguard17]

  On 10/21/2018 at 2:20 AM, justabandkid94 said:

BOA no. UIL yes... maybe

 

Hesistant to doubt Johnson’s ability to monstrously clean after last year.

Not sure cleanliness much matters at this point tbh, I usually love Johnson but I am not a fan of this years show. Maybe I’m missing something. I just don’t get like it

[MadisonBandMan1]

Any other bands at region 12 you can post opinions on?

[justabandkid94]

Fair point!

[CTJBandPops]

  On 10/21/2018 at 12:19 AM, BenedictCucumberpatch said:

Oh absolutely. I think CTJ gets 4th this year. Reagan, along with TWHS and Flowermound will definitely beat them at BOA SA.

sounds a lot like last year's comments and we saw how that ended. I love the show, very emotional story that everyone I have spoken with has enjoyed - #whataband

[MadisonBandMan1]

After region contests, any new thoughts?

[natertater21000]

  On 10/21/2018 at 1:46 PM, MadisonBandMan1 said:

 

After region contests, any new thoughts?

Three leander isd bands will be in the top half.

[ValleyBandFanatic]

  On 10/19/2018 at 3:45 AM, Cityscapes said:

This is how I see it playing out in 2a

1: Rouse

2: Weiss

3: Pioneer

Pioneer has improved A LOT since their performance at BOA McAllen. I say that they will get at least 2nd in the 2A division, with a caption to go along with it

[1998-2018]

  On 10/21/2018 at 2:20 AM, justabandkid94 said:

BOA no. UIL yes... maybe

Hesistant to doubt Johnson’s ability to monstrously clean after last year.

They are clearly capable of very clean runs but part of the genius of their show designs the last couple years is how it can hide massive amounts of dirt when they have a rough run. For all the talk about the advantage of learning the complete show early and cleaning all season I think their 2017 BOA SA performances, while impressive, was probably the dirtiest runs I have ever seen win gold. The send off performance for their parents was significantly cleaner. All that speed and chaotic drill combined with great music and big sound can be mesmerizing to their advantage. However as judges become more accustomed to the style, the subterfuge will likely be less effective.

 

I love the band so think of this as a "left-handed complement" more than a criticism and potentially an early warning of how judge's reactions may evolve.

[principalagent]

BOA is much more about achievement, which helps understand why Johnson can get away with runs that are obviously less clean than their competitors (of course, combined with the fact that their show designs do in fact cover up a lot of dirt - which I'm not necessarily hating against. That's smart design if anything).

 

My initial thoughts are that it'll hurt them in the UIL process (say 3rd, maybe 4th in Area D, lower-middle in state finals), but I thought CTJ was too dirty in 2014 and they ended up with the bronze medal. I think this show is still dirtier visually and musically than Chameleon and has the potential to stay that was through the end of the season, but I don't doubt that the judging priorities of UIL are moving slowly towards a standard that is favorable for CTJ (and perhaps similar groups like Leander and The Woodlands too). At any rate, this year is clearly going better than 2016 was, where I don't think they would have made state finals had they chosen to advance.

[Nebp]

  On 10/21/2018 at 5:46 PM, principalagent said:

BOA is much more about achievement, which helps understand why Johnson can get away with runs that are obviously less clean than their competitors (of course, combined with the fact that their show designs do in fact cover up a lot of dirt - which I'm not necessarily hating against. That's smart design if anything).

 

My initial thoughts are that it'll hurt them in the UIL process (say 3rd, maybe 4th in Area D, lower-middle in state finals), but I thought CTJ was too dirty in 2014 and they ended up with the bronze medal. I think this show is still dirtier visually and musically than Chameleon and has the potential to stay that was through the end of the season, but I don't doubt that the judging priorities of UIL are moving slowly towards a standard that is favorable for CTJ (and perhaps similar groups like Leander and The Woodlands too). At any rate, this year is clearly going better than 2016 was, where I don't think they would have made state finals had they chosen to advance.

[Nebp]

Spoken like a true Reagan band parent. Nuff said!

[Nny14]

  On 10/21/2018 at 6:09 PM, Nebp said:

 

Spoken like a true Reagan band parent. Nuff said!

Except that they aren't lol. Anyone who has criticism against your band isn't always some hater, and I would hardly call their post that. They even acknowledged it was just their thoughts about it and not exactly what will happen like 2014.

[Nebp]

The trolls are alive and everywhere. Never said I had anything to do with any program. I happened to be around a bunch of Reagan parents yesterday at region and heard that very comment almost verbatim.

[Nny14]

  On 10/21/2018 at 6:38 PM, Nebp said:

The trolls are alive and everywhere. Never said I had anything to do with any program. I happened to be around a bunch of Reagan parents yesterday at region and heard that very comment almost verbatim.

You're right about your first statement. Thank you for reminding me.

[principalagent]

Not nearly parent age yet! Have about 25 years until I’ll have a high school aged kid. I’m just a band nerd - probably worse than a rival high school band parent at the end of the day

[1998-2018]

  On 10/19/2018 at 8:26 PM, Mash said:

This is what I dislike about this. The bands already are being prejudged against previous years which shouldn't matter because it should be based on this year. The old guard continually gets better scores and judging because of the schools reputation vs. the actual performance.

 

Incorrect. This statement reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of judging. Seeding a competition is a time-honored tradition and history shows us past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. While it might be tempting to say this could become self reinforcing, all you have to do is watch the historic videos (and understand the judge's perspective) to see they generally get it right. It works. Any historic bias ends when the music starts. Your last sentence appears to reveal your own bias, or perhaps frustration, and completely fails Dawkins Razor. Unless you provide support, it can be dismissed without rebuttal even though there is amply evidence to the contrary.

 

  On 10/19/2018 at 11:30 PM, Mash said:

But why base it off of previous years? Just because a band is good typically doesn't mean they should get preferential treatment IMHO.

 

See above:

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

 

  On 10/19/2018 at 11:56 PM, Mash said:

So if a bunch of old fav's have a down year and a bunch of new bands have a great year the new bands get rooked. You might think I am being odd about this but in this day and age there is plenty of ways to pre-judge bands on their merits of this year.

 

If people don't think judges are biased by prior years, you are fooling yourself.

 

I will point out that I think the band I support is already building a solid history, I just want to have it be fair to all of the bands. Calling me grumpy won't get you anywhere, I am already old enough to tell you to get off my lawn.

Of course the judges know the history of the bands involved and they have some idea of what to expect. That's not bias, it's necessary competence. Nobody gets "rooked". If the new band is clearly better, it will be reflected in the scores. Keep in mind, "clearly better" and "just as good" are different standards to a judge and there is a long-standing tradition across subjective competitions that the challenger must make a statement. If this is what you mean by "bias" I will still disagree with you and strongly recommend you get used to it. Nobody backs into Finals.

 

  On 10/20/2018 at 1:47 AM, Mash said:

Did I ever say that they weren't professional? Or phoning it in? Y'all are implying I am saying they are dishonest. I never said that, do not imply that I did.

You did say they were biased, prejudicial, and unfair. Some level of backlash shouldn't surprise you.

 

  On 10/20/2018 at 1:50 PM, Mash said:

I hope y'all are all right and nobody gets screwed. The kids are all working hard in these final two weeks.

Nobody will get screwed. Somebody will definitely be very disappointed. But that happens every year, regardless of how many judging panels there are or how the schedule is determined. The solution is to avoid being a bubble band. Continue to do the hard work to get better and make an undeniable statement.

[Danpod]

"They ain't gonna rook us" is one of my favorite sports quotes ever!

Nevertheless, this contest is shaping up to be all sorts of awesome!  Last night, the Finals split for Indianapolis Super Regional was 8 from Panel 1 and 6 from Panel 2.  Me thinks that you could see more of the same next week in St. Louis and the following week in San Antonio.

What's the message?  Perform!!!!

[whitewing09]

The following makes me scratch my head:

1. CTJ is the Texas band for visual demand and achievement 
2. Hebron is (by far) the Texas band for musical demand, achievement, and execution
3. Vandy is the second band of music demand, achievement, and execution (like Hebron lacks in visual demand)
4. How does CTJ beat Hebron in a music caption in 2017?
5. How does Vandy score so high on viz that they medal at SA 2017?

The discussions get really strange when you start looking at individual band success because they often contradict pretty general paradigms.

[1998-2018]

  On 10/21/2018 at 7:14 PM, Danpod said:

"They ain't gonna rook us" is one of my favorite sports quotes ever!

 

Nevertheless, this contest is shaping up to be all sorts of awesome!

 

What's the message?  Perform!!!!

Exactly!

 

Any other questions or concerns? The message remains the same.

[justabandkid94]

  On 10/21/2018 at 7:19 PM, whitewing09 said:

 

The following makes me scratch my head:

• CTJ is the Texas band for visual demand and achievement
• Hebron is (by far) the Texas band for musical demand, achievement, and execution
• Vandy is the second band of music demand, achievement, and execution (like Hebron lacks in visual demand)
• How does CTJ beat Hebron in a music caption in 2017?
• How does Vandy score so high on viz that they medal at SA 2017?

The discussions get really strange when you start looking at individual band success because they often contradict pretty general paradigms.

Question — are these observations based on scores, or comments people make thru the season? Understand that some are based on prior year scores but the others not so sure