LostChoirGuy Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 I've had several responses to my comments about band fees. I feel I need to add to what I said before. My comments were specifically in response to the assertion that small schools are disadvantaged monetarily. If money is what your program is wanting, it comes down to what the program is willing to ask of the members and how much those members are willing to pay. I see the valid point that in these smaller schools, there may be more individuals that are participating in multiple activities and therefore unwilling to pay as much for fees. To that I have to say, it seems the problem then goes far beyond money. If the students are splitting their time and energy between many activities, they wont be able to produce as good of a show, regardless of the design component or money spent on the show. In response to the assertion that individuals in 6A schools cannot participate in as many activities as the smaller schools, I think that is false. Perhaps students are unable to achieve excellence across each of the multiple disciplines, but in the larger schools, a larger variety of activities are offered. My name had about 20 different sports, clubs, and organizations listed next to it in my senior yearbook. If students wish to be that involved, they have the opportunity. Also, I have seen members of the football team in full pads play with the marching band during halftime shows in now 6A schools (what were at the time 5A schools). And now my final comments which may seem a bit contradictory- the truth is, I dont like the idea of paying for excellence either, but I think it is only fair and true to economics. If a school has enough individuals willing to participate in band even with extremely high fees, there must be something that is causing the demand for that program to be so high. It is only natural though that many students under this system are unable to participate and do not get to benefit from great music education because of the expense. I am among the people that would not have been willing to pay high fees to participate in band. I went to a school with a great marching band program, but I chose to receive my music education in other ways, mostly because my talents were in vocal performance, but also because I did not wish to devote the time and money that others put into achieving excellence. Others may not have sought music education in other places and may have missed out because of this. It is unfortunately a sacrifice that comes when a school desires to produce a high quality product on the field. Quote
Dog885 Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 No rain predicted! I am really excited about seeing Marcus!! Don't jinx it! JeremiahW 1 Quote
KinDallas Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Don't jinx it! Marcus seems to have brought the rain to nearly every event so far. Quote
Rudedog34 Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I was under the impression the topic here was BOA Waco scoobydoo 1 Quote
whitewing09 Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Making the argument that students in smaller schools are more involved with student life makes no sense because they are just less involved with band. As an alumni of a 6A program, I can vouch for the COMPLETE time commitment to band. Like literally 6-8 hours per day. And at my school they wouldn’t allow kids who marched the varsity show to be in any other extra curricular activities. In those smaller schools you speak of where kids are a part of 3 or more activities, that it totally their choice. All it means is that less time can be given only to band. You’ve hit it on the nail. At a lot of small town schools, band directors cannot force students to choose. That’s like something that would make it up to the school board where the director would lose. Even if the director had the ability and wanted to enforce such a rule, given the small population, he’d lose a lot of talent. Some of our best players were also varsity cheerleaders or varsity athletes. When you have less than 600 students in the whole school, having ‘smaller more dedicated’ cohort actually means losing talent. This way of thinking is just looking at one aspect of the problem with wealth distribution though. The part completely undressed discounts those wealthier schools and just sums up their excellence as money and nothing more. There is also a cultural difference that comes through family support and more specifically support of the band program. Just looking at the issue as a problem with lack of money is a dis-service to those bands that have money AND do well. If you compare the number of parent volunteers and how much time the kids form those top schools spend practicing their skills outside of practice I bet you would find a difference that reflects the difference in socioeconomic level as well. It is NOT all about money, but money does have a large part in the success of the program on a presentation level. Not all props are bought and costumes aren't required to change every year for success. The culture of the band and the families involved in the band are equally important, if not m A person can call out economic disparity and the need for its acknowledgement in policy decisions without diminishing the success and talent of students from more affluent background. Literally no one is saying that affluent schools are bad or the only schools that can perform at a high level. Affluence doesn’t equal success, but it does afford things such as better show design. Therefore, design and show elements that have to do with school resources rather than student excellence should not be deciding factors in who advances and who doesn’t in a state sponsored contest. They don’t belong on the rubric. It’s not all about money, but at the same time the discussion should not ignored. CTJBandPops 1 Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I was under the impression the topic here was BOA Waco. I think it’s actually “A plethora of topics very loosely related to the BOA competition in Waco this Saturday.” 1998-2018 1 Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 How’s this....here are my personal top 5 picks for Saturday: 1. Cedar Park 2. Marcus 3. Hendrickson 4. Dripping Springs 5. Round Rock Quote
Danpod Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 If Cedar Park pulls this off, it will be there first BOA Regional Title ever. That is very difficult to wrap my brain around. Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 If Cedar Park pulls this off, it will be there first BOA Regional Title ever. That is very difficult to wrap my brain around. It is definitely hard to believe that they haven’t won one yet considering all of CP’s accomplishments. Quote
LostChoirGuy Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I would love to see Cedar Park get their first win or Hendrickson or Dripping Springs get a medal. Has Hendrickson ever medaled at BOA? Quote
1998-2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Amen! It becomes about who has the most money, and not about mus7ic education. That comment is offensively disrespectful. If you think a band could just throw money at the field and out play Marcus during their ten year reign as State Marching Champions you desperately need to get some fresh air and sunshine with us at a few contests. Even praying to God won't help you out-play Ronald Reagan, or Vandergrift, or Hebron, wherever they are this weekend if you haven't put in the hard work to earn it like they did. I friend of mine recently was told by another band parent frustrated with their own program's lack of progress, "State Marching Championships are up for sale." My friend quickly told them with a smile, "I don't think it works that way, but if you know something I don't and can get me a price, I'm pretty sure we can get it funded." The conversation changed directions immediately as the frustrated parent realized the error in their thinking. Hopefully you will too. (Edit: There have been other comments that were nearly as direct but I held my tongue or offered a counterpoint. Your comment, is different because it is so direct and as a music educator, not only should you know better but you gave voice to subtle hypocrisy. Money you take from band kids puts food on your table. I'm not suggesting you work for free, just recognize the complexity of the issue.) Quote
Rudedog34 Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 To my knowledge, Hendrickson has not. I know that if the weather holds out though, Waco is going to be exciting. Quote
1998-2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I was under the impression the topic here was BOA Waco I think it’s actually “A plethora of topics very loosely related to the BOA competition in Waco this Saturday.” Thanks, I happen to agree with both of you. Since one of the loosely related topics has gained enough traction to distract from BOA Waco it seems like a good time to start a new thread elsewhere if anyone wants to pursue the topic further. Just let us rule junkies know where... Edit: One more thought before returning to the question of Cedar Park or Marcus. You "but the money, money, money..." guys are still missing the point. Do you really want to win? Get a top tier Director and start building. It will only cost about $100,000 a year and you better add a couple really sharp assistants too. Don't forget to budget for some inspiring Middle School Directors as well because you can't build without a foundation. So all this talk about the cost of the show is really small peanuts. Trying to hold back progress in our music education by clinging to an outdated set of rules is a disservice. It's also a distraction from the crisis in the way we fund our entire education system. Quote
principalagent Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I would love to see Cedar Park get their first win or Hendrickson or Dripping Springs get a medal. Has Hendrickson ever medaled at BOA? It would be their first. Quote
Popular Post CTJBandPops Posted October 9, 2018 Popular Post Posted October 9, 2018 OTOH, Leander is neither a wealthy nor impoverished school. We have our wealthy areas, but for the most part, we are a very middle class school. Typical band fees for us run around $450 to $500 per year. Leander does a lot of fundraising, and amazingly, just raised over $106K at their annual March-a-thon. I remember back when the goal in 2013 or 2014 was only like $20K. They keep setting the fundraising bar higher, and the students and parents keep surpassing it. Very impressive to see how hard they work on raising the needed funds without raising fees. I would agree - I paid $25.00 to march my freshman year in 1981 in CA. We had 95 members with a school membership of nearly 3,000. A time when there was still funding in the state. In my business moves over the years, I have lived across the street from Marcus, 2 blocks from Hebron, and 2 blocks from Coppell (where my child started music education) and had the children of former band mates graduate from programs such as FloMo. I maintain those relationships and have an understanding of the cost of their programs. while it is easy to say that the "wealthy" districts have money to burn - the district here has 7 schools and the dynamics are vastly different across all of those schools. even to say that 1 school has an advantage based on their location is a false narrative. Every district has a pocket of transient population - not intended to be derogatory - but members that are living in apartments/rentals and simply do not have the additional money to spend on marching arts programs. there are also issues that you have family that may have the funds - and the marching arts are not a priority, or live in a big house and marching band is just not their priority Every district - regardless of size are dealing with this issue - regardless if you have 90 members or 300 members at the end of the day, it comes to fundraising and providing students with the means to be successful to participate and the programs decision on what is important - is there a value in going to Macy's parade, a value in Rose Parade, or a value in Grand Nats? just my thoughts LeanderMomma, 1998-2018 and Hard Core Band Fan 3 Quote
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I have a Gaffney, Orlando, and & Waco combined schedule for any channel-flippers out there. I skipped adding Canton as it is a very small show. By the way, the first Orlando band starts at 6:15am. Might have to watch that first block while still in bed... 2018 BOA Gaffney, Orland, & Waco Combined Schedule.pdf Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I have a Gaffney, Orlando, and & Waco combined schedule for any channel-flippers out there. I skipped adding Canton as it is a very small show. By the way, the first Orlando band starts at 6:15am. Might have to watch that first block while still in bed... Uhhh, yeah, that’s early! I’m still trying to decide whether to drive to Waco or just watch on Flo. I have autoimmune disease, and these full day competitions truly wear me out beyond description. I’m still recovering from BOA Austin and a 10 day round of bronchitis, I’m pretty sure my rheumatologist would say, “dadgummit Cindy, STAY HOME!” But Doc....BAND! MadisonBandMan1 1 Quote
Hard Core Band Fan Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Uhhh, yeah, that’s early! I’m still trying to decide whether to drive to Waco or just watch on Flo. I have autoimmune disease, and these full day competitions truly wear me out beyond description. I’m still recovering from BOA Austin and a 10 day round of bronchitis, I’m pretty sure my rheumatologist would say, “dadgummit Cindy, STAY HOME!” But Doc....BAND! My same thoughts. I decided that I could get more bands in by staying home and flipping around between shows. If I go to Waco, I can only see those bands. It's a totally different experience watching online, but you don't have to deal with the rain, heat, sun, talkers, nearby know-it-alls, tall people in front of you blocking your view, and the monetary expense with attending onsite. I save that for the bigger shows that I just want to hear in person. Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 My same thoughts. I decided that I could get more bands in by staying home and flipping around between shows. If I go to Waco, I can only see those bands. It's a totally different experience watching online, but you don't have to deal with the rain, heat, sun, talkers, nearby know-it-alls, tall people in front of you blocking your view, and the monetary expense with attending onsite. I save that for the bigger shows that I just want to hear in person. Like San Antonio. That one is a DO NOT MISS for sure. Hard Core Band Fan and TWHSParent 2 Quote
Astros Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 Uhhh, yeah, that’s early! I’m still trying to decide whether to drive to Waco or just watch on Flo. I have autoimmune disease, and these full day competitions truly wear me out beyond description. I’m still recovering from BOA Austin and a 10 day round of bronchitis, I’m pretty sure my rheumatologist would say, “dadgummit Cindy, STAY HOME!” But Doc....BAND! Quote
MikeKyu Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 How’s this....here are my personal top 5 picks for Saturday: 1. Cedar Park 2. Marcus 3. Hendrickson 4. Dripping Springs 5. Round Rock I have the same top 5, just in a different order 1. Cedar Park 2. Marcus 3 Round Rock 4. Dripping Springs 5. Hendrickson I would love to see the 5A schools 1-2 but I don't think that's in the cards this year. I see Rock staying ahead of Dripping Springs again this weekend. CP/Marcus should be incredibly close. Not too sure where Marcus' show is but CP doesn't have their closer in yet (it's a big GE closer). MikeKyu 1 Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Hope you feel better. I'm getting the flu shot right now. You might consider it too! I'm Looks like you got cut off mid sentence? I will get that darn flu shot, I’m sure. Looks like I will be watching this one from FloMarching for sure now. My 27 year old daughter finally got word today that she’s been accepted into the park ranger program with the state of California and we hit the road tomorrow morning. She and I will be pulling a uhaul behind her SUV, and we gotta be in Sacramento by Friday so she can be measured for uniforms. This has been an 18 month long, very expensive process, and we had all but given up hope these last few weeks that it was going to happen, but it is finally becoming a reality for her. Class for the program starts on Monday and I am so excited for and proud of her!! TWHSParent and 1998-2018 2 Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 I have the same top 5, just in a different order 1. Cedar Park 2. Marcus 3 Round Rock 4. Dripping Springs 5. Hendrickson I would love to see the 5A schools 1-2 but I don't think that's in the cards this year. I see Rock staying ahead of Dripping Springs again this weekend. CP/Marcus should be incredibly close. Not too sure where Marcus' show is but CP doesn't have their closer in yet (it's a big GE closer). I will be super anxious to see how this one plays out and I’m really rooting for Cedar Park to take the gold! Quote
1998-2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Looks like I will be watching this one from FloMarching for sure now. My 27 year old daughter finally got word today that she’s been accepted into the park ranger program with the state of California and we hit the road tomorrow morning. She and I will be pulling a uhaul behind her SUV, and we gotta be in Sacramento by Friday so she can be measured for uniforms. This has been an 18 month long, very expensive process, and we had all but given up hope these last few weeks that it was going to happen, but it is finally becoming a reality for her. Class for the program starts on Monday and I am so excited for and proud of her!! Congratulations, that's fantastic! I grew up in Northern California behind the Redwood Curtain. Being a California Park Ranger will never make her financially rich but she will live a rich life in so many other ways. Most people have no idea how hard it is to land that job. It is truly one of the universe's greatest karmic rewards. Quote
Popular Post 1998-2018 Posted October 10, 2018 Popular Post Posted October 10, 2018 Earlier today... Wife: When does the new Top 30 go up? Me: Today. Wife: What time? Me: When it's done. Wife: So you're telling me it's run by a bunch of guys? Me: I think they're single too... TWHSParent, JeremiahW, Dog885 and 2 others 5 Quote
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