BOA McAllen 2018

[MadisonBandMan1]

In fact here’s proof. Centerville scored a 71.2 in Toledo on 9/23/17 and a year later they score a 81.5 at Oxford on 9/22/18. Unless I’m crazy there’s no way that’s accurate. Sooo.... I think ctj just might be ahead of Carmel. *info taken from the mfa forum*

[Danpod]

  On 9/23/2018 at 3:03 PM, MadisonBandMan1 said:

In fact here’s proof. Centerville scored a 71.2 in Toledo on 9/23/17 and a year later they score a 81.5 at Oxford on 9/22/18. Unless I’m crazy there’s no way that’s accurate. Sooo.... I think ctj just might be ahead of Carmel. *info taken from the mfa forum*

 

Centerville has improved dramatically since last year.  It's difficult to compare contest to contest let alone year to year especially when the lineups at each of the contests were completely different.  

 

Relative to the specific contest that Camel was at, the score was probably where it needed to be.  Relative to the specific contest that CTJ was at, the score was probably where it needed to be.  Besides, the goal is November

[CTJBandPops]

  On 9/23/2018 at 3:03 PM, MadisonBandMan1 said:

In fact here’s proof. Centerville scored a 71.2 in Toledo on 9/23/17 and a year later they score a 81.5 at Oxford on 9/22/18. Unless I’m crazy there’s no way that’s accurate. Sooo.... I think ctj just might be ahead of Carmel. *info taken from the mfa forum*

I think something to keep in mind - I believe it was stated on Horn Rank about the 2018 season. For the first time in many years, there is only 1 Texas band going to GNats this year. That shifts the focus to the San Antonio SR - then throw in UIL state and we will see some programs that will focus more on UIL than BOA in their show concept - while we have seen UIL evolve from their traditional stance, there is still a significant difference in the scoring process.

 

in short, Carmel score really does not mean much when Texas bands will not compete with them. Way early in the season to define who is dominate yet - next week in Austin and the following week in DFW and Houston will shed some light, but there is a big time gap between those BOA's shows and San Antonio- those shows are going to evolve a great deal - liking the new FloMarching format will make it easy to bounce between Houston and DFW on Oct 6th

 

lets hope the weather cooperates 

[whitewing09]

It’s especially hard to make a comparative assessment because Seven Lakes is up and coming and Alexander really beat expectations. Considering their placement last year, it was a pleasant surprise to see them medal this year.

 

It’s so awesome that BOA McAllen (as well as Midland) is a thing (I know that they only just recently reinstated it). I was looking at a map earlier because I grew up between Laredo and San Antonio and I remembered thinking that Laredo was a far outpost in the desert plains on the edge of Texas (have always had a vivid imagination). I believe the closest BOA regional is actually SA (only by a handful of miles), which is always so crowded because of its informal status of Grand Nationals of the South.

 

Laredo doesn’t have the option of rolling out of bed a couple of hours before a contest to perform. Whether it’s a trip to San Antonio or McAllen, it’s a nontrivial distance. While a lot of bands do travel those distance for contests regularly (Austin to Dallas, Austin to Conroe, Dallas to Conroe, SA to Conroe), they do so out of option and not necessity.

 

The smaller, fringe(?) regionals offer an accessible competition for our bands in the outer reaches of Texas. I’m hopeful that their inclusion will help to close the gap we see in the different areas because it seems like it’s starting to happen!

[principalagent]

  On 9/23/2018 at 2:24 PM, Bluewinter22 said:

 

Actually I believe Nixon got 7th place at boa grand nationals in ‘82-‘83. While technically I don’t believe that counts as getting a medal, it should go for stomething lol. They also wone state the year after.

Just double checked the history books; they aren’t listed as participating in finals either year.

[Bluewinter22]

There is a video on YouTube from that year with the bands of America logo on it.

[Bluewinter22]

 

On second look, I see it says “marching bands of America”. Emblem looks the same but not sure if it’s boa or not lol.

[principalagent]

That is the precursor to BOA, but that was the Summer Nationals competition they did away with by the end of the decade. I didn’t know they were a finalist in summer nationals - a great feat! Glad to see Alexander is now continuing in their legacy.

[Astros]

  On 9/23/2018 at 4:21 AM, principalagent said:

I'm calling Seven Lakes for Conroe Finals. They're ready, and they'll be going in with BOA related comments to work with versus their Houston peers.

 

Their first! I think it might be the first ever BOA medal to be awarded to a band from Laredo. So much history made today!!

[LeanderMomma]

  On 9/23/2018 at 1:30 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

Think the judges were incorrect?

You know, I felt like it was a little high. Carmel had some definite rough spots musically, and the show overall just didn’t wow me. I certainly felt like they were not that much better than CTJ, who scored much lower. Yes, I realize that this was a separate competition and I know you can’t compare scores that way, but it’s still far higher than what CTJ received. I guess the real question is, if those two bands had been in the same competition, who would have won? And if it’s Carmel, were they 4 points better than CTJ? I certainly enjoyed Johnson’s show far more, and it was musically fantastic. I did not have the same feeling about Carmel.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 9/23/2018 at 2:02 PM, Omega said:

Remember: never compare scores between contests.

Obviously. Within reason, of course. If Carmel won yesterday with an 89 and CTJ had won with a 79, would we still be saying you shouldn’t compare scores? At some point, the discrepancy becomes ridiculous.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

  On 9/23/2018 at 3:03 PM, MadisonBandMan1 said:

In fact here’s proof. Centerville scored a 71.2 in Toledo on 9/23/17 and a year later they score a 81.5 at Oxford on 9/22/18. Unless I’m crazy there’s no way that’s accurate. Sooo.... I think ctj just might be ahead of Carmel. *info taken from the mfa forum*

So let me get this straight - your proof is that Centerville in two different years and with two different bands, at two different competitions, with two different judging panels made different scores is proof that CTJ making a 79.8 at McAllen is a higher score than Carmel getting an 83.3 in Oxford on the same day? Anyway, my initial post was just teasing LeanderMomma for using an absolte and stating that there was nothing better that she had seen that day than CTJ. I do respect her opinion and was just giving her grief in a playful way.

[LeanderMomma]

My opinion will most likely change again anyway!

[Hard Core Band Fan]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:07 PM, LeanderMomma said:

You know, I felt like it was a little high. Carmel had some definite rough spots musically, and the show overall just didn’t wow me. I certainly felt like they were not that much better than CTJ, who scored much lower. Yes, I realize that this was a separate competition and I know you can’t compare scores that way, but it’s still far higher than what CTJ received. I guess the real question is, if those two bands had been in the same competition, who would have won? And if it’s Carmel, were they 4 points better than CTJ? I certainly enjoyed Johnson’s show far more, and it was musically fantastic. I did not have the same feeling about Carmel.

Fair enough. I wasn't making my assessment judging by enjoyment, which is an emotion, but by potential scoring. Thankfully, judges don't score strictly by emotion, but by a more analytical approach that makes their assessment more fair and consistent. There is always a human element, of course, which is useful as well.

[whitewing09]

If anything, Carmel beat a band that has a history of being a Grand National semifinalist by almost five points, when CTJ beat a band who has recently begun showing potential of executing at the caliber of a Grand National semifinalist by a little over three points, whereas last year CTJ beat a gnat semifinalist-type by a 5 point margin the first competition of the year.

 

These can be perceived as hints for how the season will play out, but it will be easier/better to understand more next week when CTJ goes up against it's peer bands.

[principalagent]

CTJ beat recent Grand Nationals *finalists* by *seven* points at their first competition last year, not just semi-finalist level bands.

 

While only pulling a three or so point margin here isn’t super promising, next week is really where we’ll be able to see what’s going to happen. For the first half of the season at least. Part of the issue is that there’s a lot more space between CTJ and Seven Lakes than Carmel and Centerville (generally), which can make it hard for a judge to size the gap effectively. The range of bands gets filled a bit more next week.

 

Also, I would consider that Carmel had about six and a half minutes on the field while CTJ had double that. Both bands were at similar musical cleanliness, but CTJ has quite some room to grow visually.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:26 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

Fair enough. I wasn't making my assessment judging by enjoyment, which is an emotion, but by potential scoring. Thankfully, judges don't score strictly by emotion, but by a more analytical approach that makes their assessment more fair and consistent. There is always a human element, of course, which is useful as well.

Yeah, they definitely haven’t been knocking down my doors asking me to be a judge.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:29 PM, whitewing09 said:

If anything, Carmel beat a band that has a history of being a Grand National semifinalist by almost five points, when CTJ beat a band who has recently begun showing potential of executing at the caliber of a Grand National semifinalist by a little over three points, whereas last year CTJ beat a gnat semifinalist-type by a 5 point margin the first competition of the year.

 

These can be perceived as hints for how the season will play out, but it will be easier/better to understand more next week when CTJ goes up against it's peer bands.

Using that same sort of analysis comparing CTJ directly against Carmel for the last 2 years - Carmel won the GN's both years and CTJ got 9th in 2016, so it would be more likely that Carmel would be ahead at this point. To me, none of it matters except this year and what's being done currently. I like both bands, but thought that Carmel, overall, was the better of the two on the 22nd, regardless of scores. I watched them both and used my 50+ years of experience and my formal music education as my basis for making that assessment. Scores are a snapshot in time and can change. Austin will be another opportunity for comparisons.

[Omega]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:11 PM, LeanderMomma said:

 

Obviously. Within reason, of course. If Carmel won yesterday with an 89 and CTJ had won with a 79, would we still be saying you shouldn’t compare scores? At some point, the discrepancy becomes ridiculous.

And I get that. But iremember last season swing BA with a significantly lower score at STL SR than Avon or Carmel had at Indy SR and I thought for sure BA would get third at GN so I only speak from past experience. I mean don't get me wrong, both bands did a wonderful job I just don't want to see anyone fall prey to what I did last year. I'm sorry if I came across as sarcastic or "holier than thou" I'm just trying to make sure no one falls prey to what I did last season that's all.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:37 PM, principalagent said:

Also, I would consider that Carmel had about six and a half minutes on the field while CTJ had double that. Both bands were at similar musical cleanliness, but CTJ has quite some room to grow visually.

Funnily enough, I felt like CTJ was much cleaner musically. Yes, they were a bit of a visual mess, but their drill is just so much more interesting than Carmel! I’m sure that will change over the coming weeks. Johnson will clean things up a bit, and Carmel will add more flair.

 

I can’t wait to see what we are all saying after we see bands like Vandy, Hebron, FloMo, Broken Arrow and Avon. At this point we know virtually nothing of how this season is actually going to go down! But isn’t it fun to surmise?

[Hard Core Band Fan]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:42 PM, LeanderMomma said:

Yeah, they definitely haven’t been knocking down my doors asking me to be a judge.

[Nny14]

This is all pretty useless conjecture considering the two won't be competing against each other this year. Less than a week before Johnson will compete with bands on the same level so we'll see then.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:57 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said:

Absolutely! I can give you many points, but coming from me, they aren't worth much!

 

[LeanderMomma]

  On 9/23/2018 at 6:57 PM, Nny14 said:

This is all pretty useless conjecture considering the two won't be competing against each other this year. Less than a week before Johnson will compete with bands on the same level so we'll see then.

Killjoy.

[bingogooberman]

Just jumping in in the Carmel assessment- I personally was floored by them. Not quite as visually captivating as last year, but matching that would be a big ask. I’m very impressed with their book and how well they’re already playing it. Gorgeous sound, and I’m not usually singing Carmels praises musically.

CTJ does seem on top of things musically- warm sound, crisp articulation, all around great- but the design this year feels a little bit like throwing paint at the wall and seeing what sticks. I often think their shows are less focused than than their nationally competitive counterparts but this one in particular just feels messy. Don’t get me wrong, what these kids are taking on is staggeringly difficult and I’m so impressed that they could even perform it. But will they be steamrolling through this season like they did last year? I don’t think so. At the end of the day, I think had Carmel and CTJ been head to head yesterday, Carmel would come out on top, probably by a somewhat significant margin.