Area B 2018

[Sparks]

UIL doesnt rewards the part ofband that is easier to influence with money, general effect. It helps poorer school districts be able to compete with the more affluent ones. It keeps it more in line with other UIL events. I have seen this same thing happen in BOA. When you have judges, you will have subjectivity and variances. UIL isn’t perfect, but it works.

[meursault]

  On 10/28/2018 at 6:16 PM, KickemColts75 said:

Vote was the wrong word to use. I was referring to the piece where judges "place" bands.

The scoring I'm used to in youth sports is elements judged independently (here let's say, musicality, drill, overall impression) then those elements add up to an overall score minus any deductions. Scores get ranked, top score wins. When I looked at the Area scores it looks like the judges award what place they think the band should get then those "places" add up to their overall score.

If anyone has a link that helps me understand scoring I'm more then happy to educate myself.

When I've asked other people what the difference between our band and say, Flower Mound is, all they say is "money". I'm hoping that's not the case.

money helps, but it’s not the deciding factor between a good and a bad program. The wealthiest area in Dallas is arguably Highland Park. NOT Lewisville. To imply that money is what separates great programs from good ones is absurd and damaging to the activity as a whole. I understand you and your children are upset, but come on. You’re really gonna come on this forum and say FloMo is only better because they have more money?

[Sparks]

Well, private lessons are very expensive. They make a huge difference. Dance instructors, props, better quality instruments and nicer uniforms all are very expensive. GE can be influenced by money, less so in UIL. However, it is still up to the kids to practice, work hard and succeed. It’s a little of both. Can you name me a highly successful band program from a poor district. I’m not sure.

[LostChoirGuy]

Duncanville has one of the most successful band programs in the history of Texas and I certainly wouldn't say that it is in a wealthy area.

[Xenon]

  On 10/28/2018 at 7:37 PM, LostChoirGuy said:

Duncanville has one of the most successful band programs in the history of Texas and I certainly wouldn't say that it is in a wealthy area.

 

For the record, Duncanville ISD is 76% "Economically Disadvantaged".

[BandGuy2]

  On 10/28/2018 at 6:38 PM, brassdad said:

 

Can anyone confirm that Prosper will definitely attend the State competition, given that they have GN in Indy the same week? If they do not, what happens? Does Timber get a slot at that point? Asking for a friend son.

They’ll be going.

[LostChoirGuy]

  On 10/28/2018 at 7:43 PM, Xenon said:

For the record, Duncanville ISD is 76% "Economically Disadvantaged".

Thank you. You put in words what I could seem to find a way to tactfully do.

[bandnerd2018]

  On 10/28/2018 at 5:17 AM, Bandwoww said:

 

Is there a reason the 6A area results page says Waxahachie is the champion when Keller won? Is it just because they technically had the best score?

[bandnerd2018]

The rule that automatically made Keller in first place only applies at state, so based off the scores Waxhachie made first at the Area B competition.

 

Good for them this being their first year in 6A. I’m glad to see their show getting good responses and being able to run with the big dogs.

[brassclass]

  On 10/28/2018 at 7:37 PM, LostChoirGuy said:

Duncanville has one of the most successful band programs in the history of Texas and I certainly wouldn't say that it is in a wealthy area.

 

Not only that, but we also don’t even pay a band fee. Not a dime to be in band. Of course there are other fees like our banquet, Jason’s deli (hehe), and little extra stuff like that but yeah, money isn’t as big of a factor as many might think.

[Percmom21]

  On 10/28/2018 at 6:16 PM, KickemColts75 said:

Vote was the wrong word to use. I was referring to the piece where judges "place" bands.

The scoring I'm used to in youth sports is elements judged independently (here let's say, musicality, drill, overall impression) then those elements add up to an overall score minus any deductions. Scores get ranked, top score wins.  When I looked at the Area scores it looks like the judges award what place they think the band should get then those "places" add up to their overall score.

If anyone has a link that helps me understand scoring I'm more then happy to educate myself.

When I've asked other people what the difference between our band and say, Flower Mound is, all they say is "money". I'm hoping that's not the case.

 

 

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/area-music-descriptor.pdf

 

That is the link for the rubric for judging music.

Categories are:

Brass, Woodwind, Percussion performance worth up to 200 points

Ensemble performance worth up to 200 points

Musicianship worth up to 200 points

 

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/area-marching-descriptor.pdf

 

That is the link to the rubric they use for judging the marching portion.

Categories:

Individual marching worth 400 parts

Ensemble marching worth 400 points

Drill worth 100 points

Integration worth 100 points

 

Each of those categories give examples of what they are looking for.

 

Then they total up their scores for each band and the bands are ranked in order of highest score to lowest score  for each individual judge and that gives them their ordinal ranking by judge.

The ordinal ranks of each band is added together and the ranking now becomes lowest number to highest number with the lowest being the best.

 

So, using this contest and Richland :-)

Their scores in prelims were 806 + 816 + 943 + 945 + 850 = 4360

udges rankings were            16  +  10  +  11  +    4   +   16   =57 which put is in 11th place

 

As you can see judges 3 and 4 were only 2 points different in how they scored us, however their placements were 7 places off. You can interpret that as judge 3 gave higher scores to more bands than judge 4 did.

 

Lots of numbers that can be looked at in all kinds of ways. lol

[Toasted Almond]

New to this forum, so forgive my ignorance on the math here, but....

 

How can a music performance score be in the 800-900 range (as many were/are) if there is a maximum of 600 possible points?

I see the math clearly on the marching side - 1000 possible points easily explains the numerical scores there. 

[himtiffant]

  On 10/28/2018 at 9:03 PM, Brego said:

New to this forum, so forgive my ignorance on the math here, but....

 

How can a music performance score be in the 800-900 range (as many were/are) if there is a maximum of 600 possible points?

I see the math clearly on the marching side - 1000 possible points easily explains the numerical scores there. 

200 brass, 200 ww, 200 perc, along with 200 each for ensemble performance and musicianship

[Percmom21]

  On 10/28/2018 at 9:30 PM, himtiffant said:

200 brass, 200 ww, 200 perc, along with 200 each for ensemble performance and musicianship

Thank you...I should have added each to that line!

[Toasted Almond]

  On 10/28/2018 at 9:30 PM, himtiffant said:

200 brass, 200 ww, 200 perc, along with 200 each for ensemble performance and musicianship

Ahh, okay. That explains it. Thank you!

[Bandwoww]

If you look at the actual scores awarded from the judges and add them up, TC had a better score than Duncanville. Keller had a better score than Waxahachie even with that one crazy judge.

[Bandwoww]

  On 10/28/2018 at 10:07 PM, Asaiah said:

That is crazy, but the raw totals don't mean as much as the spreads.

BOA uses raw totals and it generally works out for the better. I wish UIL would follow suit.

[LostChoirGuy]

Raw scores may be a nice change, but you can't really add them and compare them retrospectly because of the way the judges may keep spreads between bands on purpose to be able to fit other bands between them.

[Bandwoww]

  On 10/28/2018 at 10:23 PM, LostChoirGuy said:

Raw scores may be a nice change, but you can't really add them and compare them retrospectly because of the way the judges may keep spreads between bands on purpose to be able to fit other bands between them.

Yeah, didn’t think about that...the way BOA judges score is definitely different cause they aren’t micromanaging their tenths or necessarily looking at an order.

[Bandwoww]

  On 10/28/2018 at 4:26 AM, Bandwoww said:

 

Geez two judges had Keller in 1st in music and on had them in tenth. Good thing that judge didn’t get their way.

In the end they did get their way :/

[Nny14]

  On 10/28/2018 at 10:40 PM, Bandwoww said:

In the end they did get their way :/

Not really. "Their way" would have been Keller not advancing. Keller can do better at state.

[BandoFando]

  On 10/28/2018 at 3:52 AM, Bandwoww said:

This is true.

That’s impressive but kindof scary at the same time.

[Bandwoww]

I feel like this weekend was the perfect reason to change the rule to include area as well as state especially because it came up twice. Now I bet they can’t change rules in the middle of the season but I don’t see why it shouldn’t apply to area as well.

[Band_dad_of_2]

The "money" issue is interesting but to me, in UIL the biggest factor is talent pool. I would be curious to see how many kids are in the top programs...not in the band, the program. The smaller the program, the smaller the talent pool

 

It helps when you can have real, actual tryouts for your band. If you have 400 kids in the program, then you can take the 250 kids. The best players...the best marchers.

[littlejaw]

Anyone have the knowledge from the inside to know if J3 that gave Keller a 10 in music was the same J5 that gave them 11th in marching in prelims?