Four States Invitational Marching Contest

[FerrisHalliwell]

I found it kind of interesting how there wasn't a thread about this contest here, but I figured since, it being in Texarkana, I figure it's rather far away from the big epicenters of marching band in Texas. It happened last Saturday and I had a REALLY great time there, even though it was blisteringly hot. I stayed from ~1PM to 4PM, after Liberty-Eylau performed (although I watched someone stream the scores live). There were a lot of pretty great bands here (including my best friend's band from Queen City!), and I thought LE did pretty great (watch the video

)! Although our scores, like always, were pretty mediocre (we have a tendency to score a lot of 1s in percussion and 2s in band and guard). Although our score was initial announced as a 1, 2, 3! I was kind of furious because I don't think the guard was a 3 performance. (It seems to have been a mistake, as the band director later reported the score as a 1, 2, 2, like we normally get.)

 

Annnyyyway, I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts, especially on my school's show haha. I helped teach rifle with them over the summer. They've been slowly transitioning into more conceptual shows with more dramatic movement and guard work. This is only their second year doing shows like that (when I was there, we always did the sort of "stock" shows).

[TWHSParent]

You know, it is one of those things - it takes time to build a program. There is no quick way to do it. Conceptually the show is very interesting. Execution is lacking, but I think you know that. I'm not a music educator, so I'm not going to try to give any real tips or such. I'll point you to the band program my wife attended. They have some videos of their shows going back to 1988, and are similar in size to Liberty-Eylau in your video. My wife is in the video from 1990:

 

http://www.adaircountyband.com/history

 

These are the types of shows and execution that a small band from a poor, rural area is capable of doing (Texarkana is urban and cosmopolitan comparatively). It takes complete buy-in by first the staff, then the administration, then the kids, and it takes years to build the feeder program so they are teaching the kids proper technique, etc. But it has to start somewhere, by one of the staff that is willing to push hard and really build something.

[NETexasBandFan]

  On 10/9/2018 at 8:27 AM, FerrisHalliwell said:

I found it kind of interesting how there wasn't a thread about this contest here, but I figured since, it being in Texarkana, I figure it's rather far away from the big epicenters of marching band in Texas. It happened last Saturday and I had a REALLY great time there, even though it was blisteringly hot. I stayed from ~1PM to 4PM, after Liberty-Eylau performed (although I watched someone stream the scores live). There were a lot of pretty great bands here (including my best friend's band from Queen City!), and I thought LE did pretty great (watch the video

)! Although our scores, like always, were pretty mediocre (we have a tendency to score a lot of 1s in percussion and 2s in band and guard). Although our score was initial announced as a 1, 2, 3! I was kind of furious because I don't think the guard was a 3 performance. (It seems to have been a mistake, as the band director later reported the score as a 1, 2, 2, like we normally get.)

 

Annnyyyway, I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts, especially on my school's show haha. I helped teach rifle with them over the summer. They've been slowly transitioning into more conceptual shows with more dramatic movement and guard work. This is only their second year doing shows like that (when I was there, we always did the sort of "stock" shows).

I actually already made a thread containing four states, it just happened to be a bundle of other smaller contests out in the east texas area, results of the top 3 (Redwater, Pleasant Grove, and Queen City) and captions were also posted there. Four States was definitely judged much more harshly than usual, and I think that has to do with most of the judges being from places such as DFW, Westwood, or other places with major programs. LE getting a 3 in guard and several other of the 2s were shocking. The performance definitely has room to improve as do all, but I didn't think it was a 2 by four states standards, that contest is meant to be easier.

[LeanderMomma]

this should probably be in Upcoming Contests. Takigan will be fussing at us any minute.

[NETexasBandFan]

  On 10/9/2018 at 1:03 PM, TWHSParent said:

You know, it is one of those things - it takes time to build a program. There is no quick way to do it. Conceptually the show is very interesting. Execution is lacking, but I think you know that. I'm not a music educator, so I'm not going to try to give any real tips or such. I'll point you to the band program my wife attended. They have some videos of their shows going back to 1988, and are similar in size to Liberty-Eylau in your video. My wife is in the video from 1990:

 

http://www.adaircountyband.com/history

 

These are the types of shows and execution that a small band from a poor, rural area is capable of doing (Texarkana is urban and cosmopolitan comparatively). It takes complete buy-in by first the staff, then the administration, then the kids, and it takes years to build the feeder program so they are teaching the kids proper technique, etc. But it has to start somewhere, by one of the staff that is willing to push hard and really build something.

In regards to this, Texarkana is much more suburban than urban, but due to it's location lacks a lot of things schools in DFW or other densely populated areas may have access to, such as private lesson programs, or techs. It's also considered fairly lower class outside of one school, some people even refer to areas of it as "Ghetto" but I prefer not to generalize the place. The programs there all have the potential to be great, even the much more predominately lower class LE was barely missing state by a few points in the 90s, it's just a matter of getting the school to fund the programs and getting teachers who can handle the job, and all 4 Texarkana schools have been improving greatly in their band programs, so I think that's definitely going on.

[TWHSParent]

  On 10/9/2018 at 5:05 PM, NETexasBandFan said:

In regards to this, Texarkana is much more suburban than urban, but due to it's location lacks a lot of things schools in DFW or other densely populated areas may have access to, such as private lesson programs, or techs. It's also considered fairly lower class outside of one school, some people even refer to areas of it as "Ghetto" but I prefer not to generalize the place. The programs there all have the potential to be great, even the much more predominately lower class LE was barely missing state by a few points in the 90s, it's just a matter of getting the school to fund the programs and getting teachers who can handle the job, and all 4 Texarkana schools have been improving greatly in their band programs, so I think that's definitely going on.

 

Yes, I've been to Texarkana many times. However, compare Texarkana to Columbia, KY and you'll understand my comparative comment.

[Jeffrey L. Gorman]

  On 10/9/2018 at 4:59 PM, NETexasBandFan said:

I actually already made a thread containing four states, it just happened to be a bundle of other smaller contests out in the east texas area, results of the top 3 (Redwater, Pleasant Grove, and Queen City) and captions were also posted there. Four States was definitely judged much more harshly than usual, and I think that has to do with most of the judges being from places such as DFW, Westwood, or other places with major programs. LE getting a 3 in guard and several other of the 2s were shocking. The performance definitely has room to improve as do all, but I didn't think it was a 2 by four states standards, that contest is meant to be easier.

This is an interesting contest with Bands from LA, TX and AR competing. They have done a good job trying to get more recognition for the event and I liked the fact that they had both UIL and ASBOA Judges doing to event on several occasions. Buddy Deese, the former director of Texas High School got this moving and while it is not the biggest event, I think it brings together schools from different states and communities. I think it is more fun to watch than some of our bigger shows. I concurr that judges used to dealing with contests in the Metroplex and San Antonio Area might have been a little harder on the groups.  They have some differences such as far fewer kids taking private lessons and smaller staffs at the schools. 

[FerrisHalliwell]

  On 10/9/2018 at 1:03 PM, TWHSParent said:

You know, it is one of those things - it takes time to build a program. There is no quick way to do it. Conceptually the show is very interesting. Execution is lacking, but I think you know that. I'm not a music educator, so I'm not going to try to give any real tips or such. I'll point you to the band program my wife attended. They have some videos of their shows going back to 1988, and are similar in size to Liberty-Eylau in your video. My wife is in the video from 1990:

 

http://www.adaircountyband.com/history

 

These are the types of shows and execution that a small band from a poor, rural area is capable of doing (Texarkana is urban and cosmopolitan comparatively). It takes complete buy-in by first the staff, then the administration, then the kids, and it takes years to build the feeder program so they are teaching the kids proper technique, etc. But it has to start somewhere, by one of the staff that is willing to push hard and really build something.

 

I can definitely see what you're saying here, with execution lacking. I do feel like it might be one of the biggest struggles LE has to overcome, and I know it's been an issue for a while. We've been trying our hardest and we break out of it occasionally, we do see though superior performances that we know we can do. Our band program doesn't get a lot of funding, almost everything we get is always fund-raised through the students, parents, and fans. They've been getting a lot better, when I graduated it was quite the mess, and quite a bit of restructuring happened that summer.

 

  On 10/9/2018 at 4:59 PM, NETexasBandFan said:

I actually already made a thread containing four states, it just happened to be a bundle of other smaller contests out in the east texas area, results of the top 3 (Redwater, Pleasant Grove, and Queen City) and captions were also posted there. Four States was definitely judged much more harshly than usual, and I think that has to do with most of the judges being from places such as DFW, Westwood, or other places with major programs. LE getting a 3 in guard and several other of the 2s were shocking. The performance definitely has room to improve as do all, but I didn't think it was a 2 by four states standards, that contest is meant to be easier.

 

 

  On 10/9/2018 at 5:05 PM, LeanderMomma said:

this should probably be in Upcoming Contests. Takigan will be fussing at us any minute.

 

Oops, sorry!!! I didn't even notice there was one when I was looking in there...

They were definitely pretty harsh this year, normally Four States is one of our best scoring performances. On the plus side, according to my friend from QC, this was like, the first time they placed in a while.

 

  On 10/9/2018 at 5:05 PM, NETexasBandFan said:

In regards to this, Texarkana is much more suburban than urban, but due to it's location lacks a lot of things schools in DFW or other densely populated areas may have access to, such as private lesson programs, or techs. It's also considered fairly lower class outside of one school, some people even refer to areas of it as "Ghetto" but I prefer not to generalize the place. The programs there all have the potential to be great, even the much more predominately lower class LE was barely missing state by a few points in the 90s, it's just a matter of getting the school to fund the programs and getting teachers who can handle the job, and all 4 Texarkana schools have been improving greatly in their band programs, so I think that's definitely going on.

 

Texarkana, for all of its urban sprawl, is a pretty poor city when you live in it like I have. Not a lot of people have much money outside of the Pleasant Grove area, and especially in the LE area. Those would be the "ghetto" sort of areas you're talking about haha, believe me, I lived there. Like I said before, our band doesn't get much funding from the school, not like they get that much either, and our director practically has to get on her hands and knees for anything extra from them. A lot of our extra funding tends to be made from donations and fund-raisers by the kids and parents.

 

  On 10/9/2018 at 5:42 PM, Jeffrey L. Gorman said:

This is an interesting contest with Bands from LA, TX and AR competing. They have done a good job trying to get more recognition for the event and I liked the fact that they had both UIL and ASBOA Judges doing to event on several occasions. Buddy Deese, the former director of Texas High School got this moving and while it is not the biggest event, I think it brings together schools from different states and communities. I think it is more fun to watch than some of our bigger shows. I concurr that judges used to dealing with contests in the Metroplex and San Antonio Area might have been a little harder on the groups.  They have some differences such as far fewer kids taking private lessons and smaller staffs at the schools. 

 

I always love watching Four States, and other smaller marching contests. I love seeing smaller and not-as-well-known bands perform, especially when they have interesting concepts.

[NETexasBandFan]

  On 10/9/2018 at 9:09 PM, FerrisHalliwell said:

I can definitely see what you're saying here, with execution lacking. I do feel like it might be one of the biggest struggles LE has to overcome, and I know it's been an issue for a while. We've been trying our hardest and we break out of it occasionally, we do see though superior performances that we know we can do. Our band program doesn't get a lot of funding, almost everything we get is always fund-raised through the students, parents, and fans. They've been getting a lot better, when I graduated it was quite the mess, and quite a bit of restructuring happened that summer.

 

Texarkana, for all of its urban sprawl, is a pretty poor city when you live in it like I have. Not a lot of people have much money outside of the Pleasant Grove area, and especially in the LE area. Those would be the "ghetto" sort of areas you're talking about haha, believe me, I lived there. Like I said before, our band doesn't get much funding from the school, not like they get that much either, and our director practically has to get on her hands and knees for anything extra from them. A lot of our extra funding tends to be made from donations and fund-raisers by the kids and parents.

Funding is just hard in general for smaller schools and towns, less businesses mean less tax revenue, and people are generally lower income. It's a struggle for all of them in that part of Texas, even Pleasant Grove as far as school funds go. I keep up to date with the Texarkana area regularly, and from what I can tell the bands have really gained some support! I've never seen any of the Texas side schools with as many props as they do now, and they all have much better looking equipment.

 

a couple of nerdy side notes that might be encouraging-

Texas High jumped 19th to 13th at area in a very competitive area within 2 state years, it's unknown to me if they'll hit a peak, but they're improving to be better than ever!

Pleasant Grove has always been good, state finals good sometimes, but considering they got a 2 in 2014, made area finals the next, and were even more awesome in 2017, I hope they've been improving as well!

I haven't seen Arkansas in person or on video in forever, but from what I've heard their program has been turned around by a new staff, and LE last but not least LE is getting there for sure, the 2s are becoming less frequent and replaced with 1s, including occasional concert and sightreading sweepstakes, despite that they've been unable to nail all 3 for sweeps in a year, it's progress, and like you said, the shows are becoming much less stock, more well designed, and harder! Best of luck to these groups and I hope I see them in person sometime soon!

[TWHSParent]

  On 10/9/2018 at 9:09 PM, FerrisHalliwell said:

I can definitely see what you're saying here, with execution lacking. I do feel like it might be one of the biggest struggles LE has to overcome, and I know it's been an issue for a while. We've been trying our hardest and we break out of it occasionally, we do see though superior performances that we know we can do. Our band program doesn't get a lot of funding, almost everything we get is always fund-raised through the students, parents, and fans. They've been getting a lot better, when I graduated it was quite the mess, and quite a bit of restructuring happened that summer.

 

I hope you took my post as encouragement. It was meant to show that small, economically challenged programs can not only be successful, but can maintain that success for decades. It can be done, but it is oh so hard to do. Just because I now live in an area like The Woodlands doesn't mean I've forgotten where I came from and the challenges experienced there.

[FerrisHalliwell]

  On 10/9/2018 at 10:54 PM, NETexasBandFan said:

Funding is just hard in general for smaller schools and towns, less businesses mean less tax revenue, and people are generally lower income. It's a struggle for all of them in that part of Texas, even Pleasant Grove as far as school funds go. I keep up to date with the Texarkana area regularly, and from what I can tell the bands have really gained some support! I've never seen any of the Texas side schools with as many props as they do now, and they all have much better looking equipment.

 

a couple of nerdy side notes that might be encouraging-

Texas High jumped 19th to 13th at area in a very competitive area within 2 state years, it's unknown to me if they'll hit a peak, but they're improving to be better than ever!

Pleasant Grove has always been good, state finals good sometimes, but considering they got a 2 in 2014, made area finals the next, and were even more awesome in 2017, I hope they've been improving as well!

I haven't seen Arkansas in person or on video in forever, but from what I've heard their program has been turned around by a new staff, and LE last but not least LE is getting there for sure, the 2s are becoming less frequent and replaced with 1s, including occasional concert and sightreading sweepstakes, despite that they've been unable to nail all 3 for sweeps in a year, it's progress, and like you said, the shows are becoming much less stock, more well designed, and harder! Best of luck to these groups and I hope I see them in person sometime soon!

 

I was there when LE got a concert and sightreading sweepstakes in 2013 and 2014 (I know we got SOME sweepstakes then, we didn't make it in 2015, sadly). It was honestly the best feeling, knowing our hard work achieved something that great. I figured that the other Texarkana schools would struggle a lot too, like I said, Texarkana's not really an economically booming town (hence why it's taking me years to find a job!).

 

  On 10/9/2018 at 11:53 PM, TWHSParent said:

I hope you took my post as encouragement. It was meant to show that small, economically challenged programs can not only be successful, but can maintain that success for decades. It can be done, but it is oh so hard to do. Just because I now live in an area like The Woodlands doesn't mean I've forgotten where I came from and the challenges experienced there.

 

Of course! I hope you didn't take my post the wrong way either! I very much appreciate it!