2019 BOA San Antonio

[An Inspirational Pinecone]

An interesting thing I noticed while watching last night. There are only 4 finalist bands that don't use some form of full field amplification: Vandegrift, Hebron, The Woodlands, and Pearland. For every band that didn't use full field amplification, their Individual Music Performance Score was higher.

 

Vandegrift:

Ind: 19.6 (1) Ens: 19.3 (2)

Hebron:

Ind: 19.3 (3) Ens 18.5 (7)

The Woodlands:

Ind: 18.7 (6) Ens: 18.3 (8)

Pearland:

Ind: 17.4 (13) Ens: 17.4 (14)

(Not higher in this case but the same.)

 

However, most of the bands that do use full field amplification scored lower on the Individual Music Performance. Could this be accredited to the fact that the ensemble sounds better (and louder) when they use full field mics? I know this is common practice in drum corps, but it's interesting to me the trend between scores in the BOA bands doing this. Sometimes it adds a great effect because of the big band brass sound we all know and love, but sometimes it just makes things sound unnatural. For example, in CTJ's show, in their opening brass hit, when they have the forte piano, the entire brass section is in front of their amplification, and it doesn't feel like a natural change in volume from a brass instrument, more of a 'someone turned down the volume knob' that you get by well, turning down a volume knob.

The difference in scores between the two is even more drastic in prelims:

 

Vandegrift:

Ind: 19.2 (2) Ens: 18.8 (3)

Hebron:

Ind: 19.1 (3) Ens 18.15 (13)

The Woodlands:

Ind: 19.3 (1) Ens: 18.25 (11)

Pearland:

Ind: 18.3 (12) Ens: 17.25 (32)

 

It's interesting to see just how much the lack of field mics effect the scores. All of the top 3 bands in individual music didn't use them yet had a significantly lower ensemble music score. I didn't really notice a difference between Vandegrift's and Vista Ridge's volume but we were watching from a poor angle (we only saw those two and CTJ, and CTJ's speakers were pointed away from us so I can't give that great of an opinion on them).

[bigbandfan9]

The difference in scores between the two is even more drastic in prelims:

 

Vandegrift:

Ind: 19.2 (2) Ens: 18.8 (3)

Hebron:

Ind: 19.1 (3) Ens 18.15 (13)

The Woodlands:

Ind: 19.3 (1) Ens: 18.25 (11)

Pearland:

Ind: 18.3 (12) Ens: 17.25 (32)

 

It's interesting to see just how much the lack of field mics effect the scores. All of the top 3 bands in individual music didn't use them yet had a significantly lower ensemble music score. I didn't really notice a difference between Vandegrift's and Vista Ridge's volume but we were watching from a poor angle (we only saw those two and CTJ, and CTJ's speakers were pointed away from us so I can't give that great of an opinion on them).

I'm not sure how long Vista Ridge has been using field mics, perhaps they haven't fully figured out how to use them to their advantage yet. However, CTJ, who has been using them for a few years now, if not longer, has definitely mastered using the amplification to their advantage. I hope to either see more groups using full field amplification in the future, or seeing a rule change regarding the usage. I think the scores show that a levelling of the playing field is necessary in some way or another.

[JeremiahW]

This is false. Bands that attend Gnats have the choice of whether or not to be considered and a separate committee (not related to the judging of the contest) watches those bands in semifinals and chooses the rose parade participant. The competitive outcome has no bearing, but it’s unsurprising that “good” shows competitively have the same effect on the committee

 

Originally, the invitation was for the national champion. In 2013, that shifted to highest placing band in finals that didn't decline the invitation, and I believe at some point since then has shifted to highest placing semifinalist band that opted in. In the past few years, there's actually a TOR commitment form directors submit before the event confirming their interest in being selected. I'm like 95% sure that the invitation is still for the highest placing band that opts-in, perhaps that's highest placing band in semis now. Here's the past recipients:

 

2020: Dobyns-Bennett (10th in finals, 2018)

2019: Flower Mound (5th in finals, 2017)

2018: Ronald Reagan (7th in finals, 2016)

2017: Broken Arrow (1st in finals, 2015)

2016: William Mason (5th in finals, 2014)

2015: Round Rock (4th in finals, 2013)

2014: Carmel (1st in finals, 2012)

2013: Broken Arrow (1st in finals, 2011)

2012: Avon (1st in finals, 2010)

 

 

The situation with the Rose Parade brings out some very unpleasant memories about how the BOA got Bands in the Rose Parade.

 

4. The Rose Parade is a 5 1/2 mile monster to march with a requirement to play 3/4 of the time. The TOR Bands choosen to Pasadena were in most cases a very big disappointment to the TOR. CTJ was great in their Field show before 5,000 folks two days before the Parade, they were in the words of many CA directors who watched their performance" Abysmal " on the street. Other BOA Champions such as Broken Arrow, Dobyns Bennett   and Round Rock also did not impress anyone in the parade.

 

5. What is not mentioned in this agreement was that the TOR could replace a BOA Band with another Band if they thought the other Band would be a better selection About 3 years ago the Eagle Escadrille from Allen made a return trip to Pasadena. When the TOR offered them an invitation, they happily accepted and BOA sent no Band that year. Allen by the way did a decent job on Grandioso on the street.

 

 

A couple of incorrect statements here. There are lots of bands that participate in the parade each year, including many who are regular BOA participants but get invited through the regular selection process instead of through the grand nationals invitation. There have also been a huge number of bands that participate in BOA events that were invited to the Rose Parade prior to the agreement with BOA in 2010 to begin sending the grand national champion each year.

 

Dobyns-Bennett has never marched in the Rose Parade as the band invited at grand nationals. They will be doing that for the first time in 2020. Each of their past appearances were through TOR's normal application and selection process. I really doubt TOR would continue inviting them back again and again if they a really

 

TOR hasn't ever replaced the selected band with another band. When Allen made the trip in 2016, William Mason also made the trip that they were invited to from grand nationals in 2014.

[lost]

I think the invites are actually given by semis placement order but I’m not 100% sure. All I have to support this is a loose claim that Homestead was going to accept the invite but placed below Dobyns in semis so Dobyns were given the invite first instead

I mentioned the new selection process a bit earlier.

[CTJBandPops]

The situation with the Rose Parade brings out some very unpleasant memories about how the BOA got Bands in the Rose Parade.

First let me explain I grew up in Southern CA and marched with the Spirit of Troy in the Rose Parade while in College. I also worked with Bands in CA that were trying to go to the Rose Parade and had to deal with the Tournament of Roses. The story is not a pretty one.

1. The TOR wants Bands that are at least 250 members.  The Bigger the better. . In 2005 Nacogdoches represented TX(Great Band but not enough folks for the TOR) The next year Kingwood represented the Lone Star State. Better but still not gigantic.  The year after that guess who represented TX, the then 550 member Allen Eagle Escadrille who were lucky enough to be marching in the same Parade as the Longhorn Band who were playing in the Rose Bowl.   

 

2 ln 2008 the TOR made it known that they wanted large Bands.  CA schools may be excellent Parade Bands but with one exception they number about 100 to 140 members. The TOR went through the motions of going to Band Contests throughout CA in the hope of finding a good enough(Big Band) for an appearance. Son of a gun they could not find a big Band.  Now please understand that the TOR invites one Band from CA every 4 years and they are coming again in 2021. THAT IS ARCADIA, which not only is next door to Pasadena but is the 300 plus member monster on the street. They have been to the TOR 17 Times  and if the truth was known they are the only Big Band in CA that can look good against Bands from out of State.

 

3. This is where BOA comes in. Folks from BOA met with the Tournament of Roses to try and get a selection committee to send the best Bands from BOA contests to the TOR.  The began to look at Bands who were top notch winners in the BOA contests. However the TOR folks did not understand that Drum and Bugle Corps style Bands followed DCI type of Marching .  The TOR thought that the Bands would march like the " COMMANDANT"S OWN"  USMC Drum and Bugle Corps who march a whole lot different than the BOA Bands.  

 

4. The Rose Parade is a 5 1/2 mile monster to march with a requirement to play 3/4 of the time. The TOR Bands choosen to Pasadena were in most cases a very big disappointment to the TOR. CTJ was great in their Field show before 5,000 folks two days before the Parade, they were in the words of many CA directors who watched their performance" Abysmal " on the street. Other BOA Champions such as Broken Arrow, Dobyns Bennett   and Round Rock also did not impress anyone in the parade.

 

5. What is not mentioned in this agreement was that the TOR could replace a BOA Band with another Band if they thought the other Band would be a better selection About 3 years ago the Eagle Escadrille from Allen made a return trip to Pasadena. When the TOR offered them an invitation, they happily accepted and BOA sent no Band that year. Allen by the way did a decent job on Grandioso on the street.

 

6. I think the agreement with the TOR and BOA was not a winner for anyone. I do not blame Bands for not wanting to go and spend several Hundred Thousand Dollars to march down a street.  Trust me it is not worth it. . 

I cannot speak to those that received their invite from a placement  at BOA - I can speak to the extensive process that our program went through for acceptance and an invite to TOR - if they felt that CTJ was "abysmal" then they should cross check their acceptance committee.

 

It was very clear in our submission package that our program is located in the great state of Texas and in addition to our participation in BOA, all the Texas competitions either local or UIL do not include a parade competition. Texas bands have never been involved in a parade "competition" and parades are a loosely marched party.

 

as someone who grew up in CA and marched 4 years of parades in the morning and field show in the evening - I understand the difference. I also grew up at a time when the biggest marching event in CA was the "All Western Band Review" in Long Beach - the CA equivalent of Grand Nats for a Parade Bands that required an extensive screening process that included multiple submissions of competition results, tapes, pics and videos to get accepted - proud that I marched the event in 82 and 83 - 

 

I remember a good deal of our HS marching practice started with parade practice before we worked the field show and we marched traditional marches (Washington Grays my personal favorite) 

 

our acceptance was extended by the TOR committee and they knew who we were when they offered the spot - I was proud to have my daughter march the TOR and will be proud to say the same of my son in the near future.

 

Parades are not our thing in Texas - if TOR does not want Texas style programs, they should not offer a spot - but get ready because I have a feeling we are coming back, and not via a BOA offer but by our own acceptance offer

 

Have a great evening

[bruhmomentum]

Slight interjection into the topic at hand but John B Alexander has seriously become one of my favorite groups of all time. They don’t perform for judges or placements, they perform their way into all of our hearts. Those students are so very passionate in what they do, and deserve so much more credit than those scores are giving them. Sure, they may not play to impress judges anyways, but their shows these past couple years have been total crowd favorites, and even then they have been looking and sounding better and better every year. This whole 58th place thing really leaves me scratching my head. I sure hope that one day soon in the future they can earn themselves a spot in finals, because lord knows they deserve it.

[gmtb617]

Slight interjection into the topic at hand but John B Alexander has seriously become one of my favorite groups of all time. They don’t perform for judges or placements, they perform their way into all of our hearts. Those students are so very passionate in what they do, and deserve so much more credit than those scores are giving them. Sure, they may not play to impress judges anyways, but their shows these past couple years have been total crowd favorites, and even then they have been looking and sounding better and better every year. This whole 58th place thing really leaves me scratching my head. I sure hope that one day soon in the future they can earn themselves a spot in finals, because lord knows they deserve it.

Really unfortunate that I missed their performance. Not sure what could have caused the judges to rank them the way they did; they were so impressive at McAllen. Some other shocking statistics:

 

Their McAllen finals score was higher than their SA score.

They were outscored by both Pioneer (57th) and Roma (40th).

 

Imo JBA will be just fine if they keep doing their thing. Mix in late-season cleanliness with their unparalleled emotion, and they will be rewarded. Give ‘em some time.

[Josegjr]

I completely agree with you! It’s incredible to see their progress and they get slapped with that placement! They did not deserve that. They performed better than they ever had! I don’t know what the judges were looking at honestly.

[CTJBandPops]

Slight interjection into the topic at hand but John B Alexander has seriously become one of my favorite groups of all time. They don’t perform for judges or placements, they perform their way into all of our hearts. Those students are so very passionate in what they do, and deserve so much more credit than those scores are giving them. Sure, they may not play to impress judges anyways, but their shows these past couple years have been total crowd favorites, and even then they have been looking and sounding better and better every year. This whole 58th place thing really leaves me scratching my head. I sure hope that one day soon in the future they can earn themselves a spot in finals, because lord knows they deserve it.

JBA show was awesome - the tarps where a bold choice and and I remember the kids frantically scrambling to get off the field in prelims with them - the show was longer than most. I loved the show and recall that it took so long to get off the field and asking the kids to slow down so they did not get hurt. it took so long to stow the tarps and pit equipment that they missed their photo spot. I know that there was conversations with directors to come back on Saturday morning in uniform for pictures - while I was busy on Saturday and not sure that it happened - I hope it did.

 

that show rocks!!

 

JBA had a show to be proud of

[BandFan59]

Really unfortunate that I missed their performance. Not sure what could have caused the judges to rank them the way they did; they were so impressive at McAllen. Some other shocking statistics:

 

Their McAllen finals score was higher than their SA score.

They were outscored by both Pioneer (57th) and Roma (40th).

 

Imo JBA will be just fine if they keep doing their thing. Mix in late-season cleanliness with their unparalleled emotion, and they will be rewarded. Give ‘em some time.

An earlier season regional score being higher than their SA score seems to have happened to other bands also. Off the top of my head, Coppell scored a 87.95 at St. Louis finals I believe, then scored an 87.2 at SA, which was also lower than their score they earned at SA last year even though it seems most are in agreement their show this year was a further improvement from years in the past.

[BandDad4]

This happened to TImber Creek as well when you compare midland scores to SA. Though if you look at DFW BOA all bands that made finals increased their score at SA.

[gmtb617]

An earlier season regional score being higher than their SA score seems to have happened to other bands also. Off the top of my head, Coppell scored a 87.95 at St. Louis finals I believe, then scored an 87.2 at SA, which was also lower than their score they earned at SA last year even though it seems most are in agreement their show this year was a further improvement from years in the past.

Sure.

 

But McAllen was on 9/21, while SA was on 11/2 for Alexander. The range between those 2 dates is astronomical!

[vbassoon]

Goes to show how judges can get lost in the numbers when so many bands are in attendance, hence why semifinals would fix this problem.

[HeyBandTX]

Congrats to all the finalist!!! Really enjoyed all your performances. My thoughts?

 

I’ve got a fever, and the only cure is more taiko drums!!!

 

[Drumlinedan]

I'm not sure how long Vista Ridge has been using field mics, perhaps they haven't fully figured out how to use them to their advantage yet. However, CTJ, who has been using them for a few years now, if not longer, has definitely mastered using the amplification to their advantage. I hope to either see more groups using full field amplification in the future, or seeing a rule change regarding the usage. I think the scores show that a levelling of the playing field is necessary in some way or another.

This is the first year Vista used amplification on the field, and I believe they did just so the woodwinds could speak out a little more. But I don't know much about amplification myself.

[LostChoirGuy]

Goes to show how judges can get lost in the numbers when so many bands are in attendance, hence why semifinals would fix this problem.

Wouldn't really change anything for JBA as they would have been well out of semis.

[LeanderMomma]

I will share my thoughts and some amazing experiences when I get back in town. We had a wedding 9 hours up the road yesterday after BOA so I’m a bit weary and still have a nine hour drive home today. But this contest was so incredible in so many ways and I have a lot I want to say.

[Hard Core Band Fan]

The situation with the Rose Parade brings out some very unpleasant memories about how the BOA got Bands in the Rose Parade.

First let me explain I grew up in Southern CA and marched with the Spirit of Troy in the Rose Parade while in College. I also worked with Bands in CA that were trying to go to the Rose Parade and had to deal with the Tournament of Roses. The story is not a pretty one.

1. The TOR wants Bands that are at least 250 members.  The Bigger the better. . In 2005 Nacogdoches represented TX(Great Band but not enough folks for the TOR) The next year Kingwood represented the Lone Star State. Better but still not gigantic.  The year after that guess who represented TX, the then 550 member Allen Eagle Escadrille who were lucky enough to be marching in the same Parade as the Longhorn Band who were playing in the Rose Bowl.   

 

2 ln 2008 the TOR made it known that they wanted large Bands.  CA schools may be excellent Parade Bands but with one exception they number about 100 to 140 members. The TOR went through the motions of going to Band Contests throughout CA in the hope of finding a good enough(Big Band) for an appearance. Son of a gun they could not find a big Band.  Now please understand that the TOR invites one Band from CA every 4 years and they are coming again in 2021. THAT IS ARCADIA, which not only is next door to Pasadena but is the 300 plus member monster on the street. They have been to the TOR 17 Times  and if the truth was known they are the only Big Band in CA that can look good against Bands from out of State.

 

3. This is where BOA comes in. Folks from BOA met with the Tournament of Roses to try and get a selection committee to send the best Bands from BOA contests to the TOR.  The began to look at Bands who were top notch winners in the BOA contests. However the TOR folks did not understand that Drum and Bugle Corps style Bands followed DCI type of Marching .  The TOR thought that the Bands would march like the " COMMANDANT"S OWN"  USMC Drum and Bugle Corps who march a whole lot different than the BOA Bands.  

 

4. The Rose Parade is a 5 1/2 mile monster to march with a requirement to play 3/4 of the time. The TOR Bands choosen to Pasadena were in most cases a very big disappointment to the TOR. CTJ was great in their Field show before 5,000 folks two days before the Parade, they were in the words of many CA directors who watched their performance" Abysmal " on the street. Other BOA Champions such as Broken Arrow, Dobyns Bennett   and Round Rock also did not impress anyone in the parade.

 

5. What is not mentioned in this agreement was that the TOR could replace a BOA Band with another Band if they thought the other Band would be a better selection About 3 years ago the Eagle Escadrille from Allen made a return trip to Pasadena. When the TOR offered them an invitation, they happily accepted and BOA sent no Band that year. Allen by the way did a decent job on Grandioso on the street.

 

6. I think the agreement with the TOR and BOA was not a winner for anyone. I do not blame Bands for not wanting to go and spend several Hundred Thousand Dollars to march down a street.  Trust me it is not worth it. . 

 

I can't for the life of me figure out why you are on these forums. You hate BOA AND Texas bands. You push outdated things like NAMMB, which is almost dead, and complain about everything that is not like it was or is in California. This is TXbands not CAbands. We like our Texas bands and are proud of our kids. You are of course welcome to post your opinion like everyone else, but you really don't seem to be enjoying yourself here. You may want to take a good long think on that one.

[DeepEllum]

Did anyone notice that Hebron completely overhauled their props inbetween prelims and finals? In prelims everything was solid grey and in finals they had some blue space stuff on the sides of everything.

[LKendrick]

Congrats to all the finalist!!! Really enjoyed all your performances. My thoughts?

 

I’ve got a fever, and the only cure is more taiko drums!!!

 

[thewho]

spending the past few days working at the San Antonio SR - I have a new appreciation for the event from many angles.

 

I have attended the event since 2011, first as a parent, than as an alumni supporter, and now returning as a freshman parent that worked the event. I was amazed at the amount of work that goes into the event, I got to see the number of people and the overall hours that goes into the event, the number of people that are involved and the dedication. truly amazing. An to know that so many of them are doing it for the love of the art and dedication to the kids - 

 

But what touched me the most was the 2 full days of raw emotion. Seeing the tears of kids who may of had a bad run, a senior coming off the field in prelims knowing it may be their last performance of their high school career, kids in pain from a broken finger from a rifle toss, a sprained ankle from a trip, or a dislocated knee after getting hit by a prop. More than 15,000 kids crossed the floor of the dome. it was amazing to see up close and personal and it truly touched me. In the stands or on Flomarching, you do not see the emotion that plays into the event.

 

We all talk on this site of who will place where in this event, and while the results this year where not to my liking, I have a new respect for all those that make the event possible and the kids that leave everything they have on that field regardless of where they place.  

 

for those that would like to share in this love of the marching arts at this event and plan to attend next year - I plan to offer a chance for you to come to the dome, spend a few hours working and see the emotion first hand. I promise to feed you, get you into the event for free and provide you with whatever obnoxious colored t shirt we are offering next year.

 

congrats to every kid that crossed the field the past 2 days - as Dan Potter says - You are all winners!! 

 

There are many reasons why BOA staff will fly out to events..... but I can say with definite 100% that this is why. There's nothing like seeing firsthand the passion and drive on part of every single student, parent, and directors. It's just band in the end, but I know it's much more for everyone in the field and I've been blessed over the years to experience that up close.

 

Thank you for your hours at the event! The CTJ band booster association + volunteers was incredible through the weekend. Believe it or not, every volunteer hour makes San Antonio THE San Antonio event. None of this would have been possible at all without any of your help.

 

I met quite a few people in the txbands forums here at last- LeanderMomma, principalagent, LKendrick, Sanchez (again), AvonDad. It was wonderful meeting you all in the 3-10 minutes we talked- I hope you see you all down in Indy in 2 weeks (I know some of few have last minute plans ).

 

Any Alamodome staff reading this, thank you all too. I only hope you enjoyed the event as much as we all did.

 

All the bands in attendance made the whole event amazing. Special thank you to the finalist bands- San Antonio just got better by the hour as time passed.

 

2 tireless days, 30 degree weather, 6 hours of sleep across 2 nights, likely a marathon's worth of steps.... all worth it. What an insane event. I was arriving on Thursday from Indiana with massive expectations, and it has been so much more. I can't wait for next year.

 

We are truly blessed to have a community like this.

[Samuel Culper]

Checking in to see how the Hive Mind did on predictions for this contest.  Actual placements vs predictions submitted:

 

1 Ronald Reagan   0

2 Vandegrift     +1

3 Vista Ridge     +4

4 Leander     +2

5 Hebron     -1

6 Marcus     +2

7 CTJ     -2

8 The Woodlands     +1

9 Flower Mound    -7

10 LD Bell     +2

11 James Bowie     +2 

12 Round Rock     +10

13 Keller     -3

14 Pearland     +49

 

Of the 14 bands predicted to make Finals, 12 did.  Nine of those were predicted with 2 spots of where they did finish.

 

The Hive Mind did pretty well.

[BandFan59]

Checking in to see how the Hive Mind did on predictions for this contest.  Actual placements vs predictions submitted:

 

1 Ronald Reagan   0

2 Vandegrift     +1

3 Vista Ridge     +4

4 Leander     +2

5 Hebron     -1

6 Marcus     +2

7 CTJ     -2

8 The Woodlands     +1

9 Flower Mound    -7

10 LD Bell     +2

11 James Bowie     +2 

12 Round Rock     +10

13 Keller     -3

14 Pearland     +49

 

Of the 14 bands predicted to make Finals, 12 did.  Nine of those were predicted with 2 spots of where they did finish.

 

The Hive Mind did pretty well.

Pearland +49 

[LivLikLarry]

Pearland realistically wasn’t predicted to make 63rd. They have never placed lower than 28th. The predictions on txbands are only used to predict finalist. As the number is displaying they were just a long shot over their actual placement.

[jetliner]

Predictions numbers only work for solid finalists. Bubbles cannot be accurately represented by the predictions. If you think a group is 15th, that's the same point value as thinking they're 84th. Predict Ann Richards for all 10 spots and all of a sudden that's going to make them twenty-somethingth on the analysis.