Band2013 Posted October 13, 2019 Posted October 13, 2019 Like I pointed out in the Austin BOA Forum, Cedar Park tends to do well early season because they are so clean and sound stunning. What happens is that other bands with better designed shows begin to get better technically. However, CP shows are less on GE especially during a state year. I wouldn't count them out of taking gold, they are similar to Marcus in that regard. For example, last year CP placed above Cedar Ridge early season but cedar ridge made it to finals in San Antonio. Now we will see if Rouse will top them in San Antonio. Quote
Popular Post jmj Posted October 13, 2019 Popular Post Posted October 13, 2019 Just saw the video of Leander from finals! Oh my! The 1812 section is glorious! They are giving you everything you could want in those last 2 movements. I can’t imagine how good this will be in 1 months time. Also, love how they moved the last part of the Oppenheimer VO to the end, overlaying that clanging, boisterous ending of the 1812. So effective. Absolutely loved it - the guard is so fab, too! LeanderMomma, marimbajack, gregorydf01 and 2 others 5 Quote
Samuel Culper Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 5:01 PM, BandJunkies said: Brandeis took 2nd to Reagan in the percussion caption. Being in front of Vandy, CP, Leander and the other great percussion sections is a great source of pride! Brandeis also took 1st in Percussion at Vista Ridge the previous weekend. They have something going on there. gregorydf01 1 Quote
JeremiahW Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 1:55 PM, BandJunkies said: Does anyone have the finals recap? full recaps from prelims and finals are available on HornRank's results page LeanderMomma 1 Quote
El Gato_01 Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 Re: points spread discussion. Something to consider is while these were judges from the BOA circuit they only had 1 Music GE judge as opposed to 2 as in a BOA regional. Also the weighting of the captions was different than in BOA. BOA : Music Performance 20% Visual Performance 20% GE 60%, (Music 40% and Visual 20%) so 60% music 40% visual or 60% GE and 40% on performance TMC: Music Performance 30% Visual Performance 30% GE 40% (Even weight on Music/Visual as these scores were averaged and not added as in BOA) so in essence 50% music and 50% visual or 40% GE and 60% on performance Not sure if/how that changes things as opposed to a BOA format and the larger point spreads that were at the TMC. Quote
vbassoon Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 I'm a little confused with why BOA decides to have so much weight on GE. Sure it should be the heaviest, but not by 20%. (adding music and vis) Would like to hear some arguments against my claim. Quote
principalagent Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 4:29 PM, ethanshaw74 said: I'm a little confused with why BOA decides to have so much weight on GE. Sure it should be the heaviest, but not by 20%. (adding music and vis) Would like to hear some arguments against my claim. It’s just what they decided to prioritize. They want to push the activity forward and entertain the crowd. Just a decision. I kind of prefer the DCI/TMC weights myself. Quote
LHSax Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 While the BOA's judging breakdown is a bit different, it probably doesn't make much of a difference here. No matter the weighting of each judge, Reagan took first with every single judge but 1 (in prelims), and by a pretty consistent margin as well. In fact, by my math, 26 judges have judged Reagan, and only 1 of them has put them below first place through two pretty stacked competitions. That's a scorching start, even by Reagan standards. I really believed it would be tight at the top, considering how clean Vandy has been this early, maybe trading some captions but the judges have spoken. Now mind you, Reagan's top competition at each of these has been against shows that "are supposed to peak later in the season" as grand nationals attendees. But I actually think Reagan's show has as a high or higher of a ceiling than Vandy/Leander/Woodlands, so I get the feeling we once again won't be sending our top SA finisher(s) to Indianapolis. This will be a steep hill for Reagan's competition to climb. Quote
vbassoon Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 4:40 PM, principalagent said: It’s just what they decided to prioritize. They want to push the activity forward and entertain the crowd. Just a decision. I kind of prefer the DCI/TMC weights myself. Likewise. On 10/16/2019 at 4:43 PM, LHSax said: While the BOA's judging breakdown is a bit different, it probably doesn't make much of a difference here. No matter the weighting of each judge, Reagan took first with every single judge but 1 (in prelims), and by a pretty consistent margin as well. In fact, by my math, 26 judges have judged Reagan, and only 1 of them has put them below first place through two pretty stacked competitions. That's a scorching start, even by Reagan standards. I really believed it would be tight at the top, considering how clean Vandy has been this early, maybe trading some captions but the judges have spoken. Now mind you, Reagan's top competition at each of these has been against shows that "are supposed to peak later in the season" as grand nationals attendees. But I actually think Reagan's show has as a high or higher of a ceiling than Vandy/Leander/Woodlands, so I get the feeling we once again won't be sending our top SA finisher(s) to Indianapolis. This will be a steep hill for Reagan's competition to climb. This seems to happen more often than not unfortunately. Though no ones fault. Quote
TWHSParent Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 So as an exercise, I renormalized Reagan's scores from TMC to BOA: Prelims TMC: 89.275 BOA: 89.95 Finals TMC: 90.225 BOA: 90.15 Why did the score increase in prelims, but drop in finals? MGE. There is only 1 judge at TMC, and with the weighting BOA places on that caption the fact they went from a prelims score of 36.6 to 35.8 in finals made that much difference in the BOA weighted scores. My numbers Prelims MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 25.95 27.6 26.775 25.2 27.0 26.1 36.6 36.2 36.4 N/A 89.275 BOA 17.3 18.4 17.85 16.8 18.0 17.4 36.6 18.1 N/A 54.6 89.95 Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 27.75 26.85 27.3 26.85 26.4 26.625 35.8 36.8 36.3 N/A 90.225 BOA 18.5 17.9 18.2 17.9 17.6 17.75 35.8 18.4 N/A 54.2 90.15 Anyway, just another academic exercise. And yes, they will have strong competition at SA. Just a little over 2 weeks away. 11BandMan11 and El Gato_01 2 Quote
LHSbandDad Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 5:41 PM, TWHSParent said: So as an exercise, I renormalized Reagan's scores from TMC to BOA: Prelims TMC: 89.275 BOA: 89.95 Finals TMC: 90.225 BOA: 90.15 Why did the score increase in prelims, but drop in finals? MGE. There is only 1 judge at TMC, and with the weighting BOA places on that caption the fact they went from a prelims score of 36.6 to 35.8 in finals made that much difference in the BOA weighted scores. My numbers Prelims MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 25.95 27.6 26.775 25.2 27.0 26.1 36.6 36.2 36.4 N/A 89.275 BOA 17.3 18.4 17.85 16.8 18.0 17.4 36.6 18.1 N/A 54.6 89.95 Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 27.75 26.85 27.3 26.85 26.4 26.625 35.8 36.8 36.3 N/A 90.225 BOA 18.5 17.9 18.2 17.9 17.6 17.75 35.8 18.4 N/A 54.2 90.15 Anyway, just another academic exercise. And yes, they will have strong competition at SA. Just a little over 2 weeks away. I am really impressed you were able to do this!!! Were you able to determine with this formula if the TMC to BOA gaps between 1-2-3 place would have been the same (2 points)? Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 4:40 PM, principalagent said: It’s just what they decided to prioritize. They want to push the activity forward and entertain the crowd. Just a decision. I kind of prefer the DCI/TMC weights myself. I agree. Especially the addition of the percussion and color guard captions! Quote
Popular Post LeanderMomma Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 5:25 PM, ethanshaw74 said: Likewise. This seems to happen more often than not unfortunately. Though no ones fault. I'm going to say something here, though. We may not be taking a Reagan show to GN this year, but what we ARE taking is HUGELY entertaining this season. I am SO excited about each and every show the Texas bands are taking to GN. Will we walk out with the Gold? Maybe, maybe not. Will the folks in LOS remember the shows the Texas bands put on this fall? ABSOLUTELY. (Yes, I'm yelling). I think Vandy is putting out their most powerful and beautiful product to date, CTJ is absolutely giving us their most entertaining show yet (for all ages this time), TWHS is giving us a Broken Arrow type performance, Hebron is going to be mind blowing musically, Round Rock is pulling it together I've heard (and their uniforms are to DIE for), and Leander is putting out another show that is a huge crowd pleaser like the 4th Dimension was. I think THIS is what Texas does. We bring a product for the "everyman" fan. And we are darn good at it. Personally, I don't want to start looking and sounding like the rest of the country, whether that wins us medals in the Indy arena or not. I just want our performances to be memorable and attention grabbing, and they are that for sure. When non Texans leave the stadium, I want them to say, "I'm so glad the Texas bands came." And I believe that they will. jmj, marimbajack, Rubisco and 7 others 10 Quote
vbassoon Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 I cried reading this <3 LeanderMomma 1 Quote
SATXBandDad Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 7:57 PM, LeanderMomma said: I'm going to say something here, though. We may not be taking a Reagan show to GN this year, but what we ARE taking is HUGELY entertaining this season. I am SO excited about each and every show the Texas bands are taking to GN. Will we walk out with the Gold? Maybe, maybe not. Will the folks in LOS remember the shows the Texas bands put on this fall? ABSOLUTELY. (Yes, I'm yelling). I think Vandy is putting out their most powerful and beautiful product to date, CTJ is absolutely giving us their most entertaining show yet (for all ages this time), TWHS is giving us a Broken Arrow type performance, Hebron is going to be mind blowing musically, Round Rock is pulling it together I've heard (and their uniforms are to DIE for), and Leander is putting out another show that is a huge crowd pleaser like the 4th Dimension was. I think THIS is what Texas does. We bring a product for the "everyman" fan. And we are darn good at it. Personally, I don't want to start looking and sounding like the rest of the country, whether that wins us medals in the Indy arena or not. I just want our performances to be memorable and attention grabbing, and they are that for sure. When non Texans leave the stadium, I want them to say, "I'm so glad the Texas bands came." And I believe that they will. Well said!! LeanderMomma 1 Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 8:10 PM, ethanshaw74 said: I cried reading this <3 Quote
TWHSParent Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 7:45 PM, LHSbandDad said: I am really impressed you were able to do this!!! Were you able to determine with this formula if the TMC to BOA gaps between 1-2-3 place would have been the same (2 points)? I will be able to - day job has intervened a bit... Quote
TWHSParent Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 It tightens up slightly, but just by a tenth or two: Finals Ronald Reagan Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 27.75 26.85 27.3 26.85 26.4 26.625 35.8 36.8 36.3 N/A 90.225 BOA 18.5 17.9 18.2 17.9 17.6 17.75 35.8 18.4 N/A 54.2 90.15 Vandegrift Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 27.00 26.325 26.6625 26.55 25.05 25.8 35.2 36.0 35.6 N/A 88.0625 BOA 18.0 17.55 17.775 17.7 16.7 17.2 35.2 18.0 N/A 53.2 88.175 Leander Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 26.55 26.4 26.475 26.7 22.8 24.75 34.5 35.4 34.95 N/A 86.175 BOA 17.7 17.6 17.65 17.8 15.2 16.5 34.5 17.7 N/A 52.2 86.35 Quote
LHSbandDad Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. Very interesting and satisfying to see the correlation!! TWHSParent 1 Quote
Band2013 Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 it will be an interesting line up at nationals, I have a feeling that it will be extremely competitive this year. To be honest, I was not a fan of last years nationals, I felt that Avon tried their best to put on a Carmel show and I am used to them being a lot more daring and out of the box. Vandergrift seems to be aiming for technique with a show that seems to be more traditional style. While Leander seem's to be my favorite designed show this year. The Woodlands is also performing a show that reminds me of their 2012 show which is pretty surprising, giving that they are going to nationals this year. Quote
El Gato_01 Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 On 10/16/2019 at 10:35 PM, TWHSParent said: It tightens up slightly, but just by a tenth or two: Finals Ronald Reagan Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 27.75 26.85 27.3 26.85 26.4 26.625 35.8 36.8 36.3 N/A 90.225 BOA 18.5 17.9 18.2 17.9 17.6 17.75 35.8 18.4 N/A 54.2 90.15 Vandegrift Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 27.00 26.325 26.6625 26.55 25.05 25.8 35.2 36.0 35.6 N/A 88.0625 BOA 18.0 17.55 17.775 17.7 16.7 17.2 35.2 18.0 N/A 53.2 88.175 Leander Finals MPI MPE Avg VPI VPE Avg MGE VGE Avg Sum Total Score TMC 26.55 26.4 26.475 26.7 22.8 24.75 34.5 35.4 34.95 N/A 86.175 BOA 17.7 17.6 17.65 17.8 15.2 16.5 34.5 17.7 N/A 52.2 86.35 Where did you get finals recaps from? I went to Hornrank but it seems as if those recaps have already been converted to BOA scores? Also in going through a similar process above I do find something interesting about the visual scores in prelims. Vis Per Ind TMC BOA Aus TMC score to BOA Cedar Park 22.5 15.2 15 Bowie 21.75 15.5 14.5 Leander 21 16.5 14 1st column is the TMC score, the 2nd is the BOA Austin Regional Finals score, and the 3rd column is the TMC score converted to a BOA score. Is it weird that in the 2 weeks since the Austin regional that Cedar Park drops .2 points, Bowie drops 1 point and Leander drops 2.5 points? (maybe I did my math wrong) Similarly in Visual Ensemble, Leander drops from 17.5 (BOA Atx) to 17.3 (TMC BOA score) and Cedar Park drops from 17 to 16.1? Other groups in these captions that were at both contests saw moderate gains but on a whole the average of the 5 finalists from both contests dropped in Visual Individual and had a net of no gain in Visual Ensemble. Now one can say that yes judges see things differently at different contests but this only occurred in the visual scores as the 5 finalists from both contests saw increases in their music and GE scores (as expected). Thoughts? I am curious to get a ahold of the finals recaps and see how things played out there as well. Quote
TWHSParent Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 First, I ran some numbers from Prelims, since we do have a recap, to make sure that everything calculated correctly. I then took the HornRank numbers for finals (sub captions are in BOA format, but averages are in TMC format) and ran the sub-caption calculations in reverse, then checked that the totals matched what we know from the finals announcements. Everything checked out, so I saw no reason not to proceed under the assumption that HornRank had info we don't on finals. El Gato_01 1 Quote
El Gato_01 Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Nice well done. I thought that is how you might have done it but before I ventured into fun math wanted to check to see if there was a list already out there. Alright. Thanks! Quote
LeanderMomma Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 You math nerds suck! (My youngest, the former band nerd, and my middle one, the California park ranger, are both math geniuses. I don't know where they get it!). Quote
TheHornplayer Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 I've got no idea how you math people do all this but all this talk about visual scores got me thinking about it so I went to the prelims recap on hornrank and looked at the top 5 in visual performance (it's actually 6 since there was a Tie for 4th place which surprised me) 1st Ronald Reagen 26.10 2nd Vandegrift 25.42 3rd Rouse 23.92 4th Leander/Weiss 23.48 6th Cedar Park 23.33 Speaking of converting scores from TMC to BOA how do you do that? (I wanna know for future reference it'll probably make my brain hurt but atleast I'll know the process) Quote
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