UIL July 2019 MAC

[NETexasBandFan]

At TBA last Wednesday, UIL voted on several new music rules, including things such as every year area, adjusting sightreading levels for Sub-NV bands, and regional state s&e contests. Has anyone heard any word on what the outcome of this voting was?

 

Also a thread for discussing these changes, there's lots of interesting things in here. Some more controversial like Every Year Area, others I think make perfect sense like making it so Sub-NV bands read easier sightreading levels than NV Bands.

 

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/MAC_Agenda_July_2019.pdf

[HighSchoolBandNerd212]

The minutes from the MAC Committee Meeting were posted yesterday:

 

https://www.uiltexas.org/files/music/2019_July_MAC_Minutes.pdf

 

All of the proposals and actions items up for vote at the meeting passed.

 

I found this new proposal to be very interesting: "A discussion item was brought forward from the Region 13 band division for UIL to

create a Division I and Division II state marching band contest in 6A. This item will be included in the Spring 2020 agenda for all regions to discuss."

[Band_dad_of_2]

  Quote

 

A discussion item was brought forward from the Region 13 band division for UIL to create a Division I and Division II state marching band contest in 6A. This item will be included in the Spring 2020 agenda for all regions to discuss.

 

Very....very....very interesting.  I would have liked them to clarify this more but it's not on the agenda...I'm wondering if the divisions will be broken down by school size (I assume it would).  If so, that could be massive for the smaller 6A bands.

[BandFan95]

Wow!  That would be amazing!

[Samuel Culper]

  On 7/31/2019 at 7:04 PM, Band_dad_of_2 said:

 

 

Very....very....very interesting.  I would have liked them to clarify this more but it's not on the agenda...I'm wondering if the divisions will be broken down by school size (I assume it would).  If so, that could be massive for the smaller 6A bands.

 

I can only assume it would be done by size, like the split at 1A-5A for all sports now.  Eyeballing the rank order of 6A for the current alignment, an equal split between D1 and D2 would put the cutoff around 2600.  That assumes all of the non-traditional schools in 6A would be classified as D2.  Otherwise it would be closer to 2800.

 

The 12 finalist bands from last year look like this in the rank order:

 

The Woodlands - 4435

Flower Mound - 3618

Hebron - 3584

Ronald Reagan - 3518

Marcus - 3275

CTJ - 3083

Keller - 2995

Cedar Ridge - 2855

Vandegrift - 2582

Vista Ridge - 2345

Waxahachie - 2235

Leander - 2199

 

So, assuming all else says the same, medalists would have looked like this:

 

Division 1

Gold - Flower Mound

Silver - Hebron

Bronze - Ronald Reagan

 

Division 2

Gold - Vista Ridge

Silver - Vandegrift

Bronze - Leander

 

Yes, this assumes a lot and the bigger impact would be on who makes it to State, who makes Finals, etc.  Just taking a quick cut at the top from 2018.

[Band_dad_of_2]

  On 7/31/2019 at 8:11 PM, Samuel Culper said:

I can only assume it would be done by size, like the split at 1A-5A for all sports now.  Eyeballing the rank order of 6A for the current alignment, an equal split between D1 and D2 would put the cutoff around 2600.  That assumes all of the non-traditional schools in 6A would be classified as D2.  Otherwise it would be closer to 2800.

 

The 12 finalist bands from last year look like this in the rank order:

 

The Woodlands - 4435

Flower Mound - 3618

Hebron - 3584

Ronald Reagan - 3518

Marcus - 3275

CTJ - 3083

Keller - 2995

Cedar Ridge - 2855

Vandegrift - 2582

Vista Ridge - 2345

Waxahachie - 2235

Leander - 2199

 

So, assuming all else says the same, medalists would have looked like this:

 

Division 1

Gold - Flower Mound

Silver - Hebron

Bronze - Ronald Reagan

 

Division 2

Gold - Vista Ridge

Silver - Vandegrift

Bronze - Leander

 

Yes, this assumes a lot and the bigger impact would be on who makes it to State, who makes Finals, etc.  Just taking a quick cut at the top from 2018.

 

Right...I'm looking more at the "who makes finals" angle.  The top is the top is the top....that probably won't change.  For the vast majority of bands who were at the bottom of the enrollment spectrum, state finals is nothing but a pipe dream.  This gives those schools a fighting chance at finals.

[Samuel Culper]

  On 7/31/2019 at 8:47 PM, Band_dad_of_2 said:

Right...I'm looking more at the "who makes finals" angle.  The top is the top is the top....that probably won't change.  For the vast majority of bands who were at the bottom of the enrollment spectrum, state finals is nothing but a pipe dream.  This gives those schools a fighting chance at finals.

 

Fair enough. So, assuming a cutoff of 2800 and 10 bands in each Finals (and all else being the same)...

 

Division 1 Finals:

Flower Mound

CTJ

Hebron

Ronald Reagan

Keller

Marcus

The Woodlands

Round Rock

Oak Ridge

Coppell

 

Division 2 Finals:

Vista Ridge

Vandegrift

Leander

Waxahachie

Cedar Ridge

Westlake

John Horn

Hendrickson

Clements

Brazoswood

[lost]

Different area contests would make for a much different state contest then

 

Also I’d like to point out the area every year mentioned in there. Would big bands go to Area instead of San Antonio? Since I think they’d be held fairly close making it difficult to attend both for bands a ways away

[NETexasBandFan]

I see a very major issue with changing the judging sheets for state but not area, as the passed proposal suggested, that would give area and state different judging formats, which could make the rankings between those 2 rounds very different. Just doesn't make sense to me, although I love the new state sheets.

 

Also, it may not have the numbers for it just yet (As far as the number of bands at area and state contests), but 5A could really use a D2 and D1 as well if a 6A one were to be implemented. 5A has by far the biggest split in skill between the D1 and D2 sized schools as far as band goes. But one thing at a time, if it's to be implemented, it should probably be piloted with just 6A.

[FloMoParent]

I'm still not sold on the every year area and the non-state year area contest being held on the same weekend as the San Antonio Super Regional.

[principalagent]

  On 8/2/2019 at 3:52 PM, FloMoParent said:

I'm still not sold on the every year area and the non-state year area contest being held on the same weekend as the San Antonio Super Regional.

 

You would be correct to be skeptical. It's intentional.

[NETexasBandFan]

I wish every year area could work right, it would be so beneficial so bands that can't/don't do BOA. All area contests shouldn't be on the same day in order to help with judging, but scheduling off year areas on the weekend of BOA San Antonio is not the way to go. From what I understand though, UIL itself still has to decide how and if to implement it.

[gmtb617]

  On 8/2/2019 at 5:30 PM, principalagent said:

 

You would be correct to be skeptical. It's intentional.

2nd half of the Every Year Area rationale (page 6/8 of the document):

————

“This proposal is important because of the merit so many place in UIL-sanctioned events. Without an annual post-region level of competition we are concerned that UIL marching band events could become secondary in importance to other contests. The high standard of musical excellence in the state of Texas has been established through the guidance of the UIL Music. However, the most accessible and consistent performance outlet will guide the decisions made in the band halls throughout the state. Without an annual end-of-season evaluation that allows for more in-depth feedback and celebration of our students’ efforts, non-UIL events will gain more influence in the decisions that directly affect our students. The more opportunities all students have to showcase the incredible depth, diversity, and level of performance here in Texas, the more support we will all enjoy. The UIL should be the platform for this showcase.”

————

 

With this, there is a crystal-clear “target” that UIL is zealously pushing against with an every-year area system, that being non-state circuits like BOA. There is nothing explicitly mentioning that this factors into the “when” of the every-year area implementation, but considering the expressed intent outlined above, it certainly raises eyebrows.

 

I do wonder why these out-of-state circuits are such a concern for them. UIL already has a great sphere of influence on TX marching band and does achieve its goal of giving all TX bands opportunities to succeed at the state level regardless of marching style/band program wealth and scale, etc (Although in 6A this is debatable). On the certainly valid point that out-of-state circuits do tip the scales of this balance, I respond with (1) corps style bands have long dominated the top of the UIL state contests since the 90s with Westfield/Spring and long before BOA exploded in Texas in the early 2010s (from what I’ve researched; I’ve only known this activity for 5 years), and (2) UIL has certainly exerted its influence on Texas Marching Bands, with all “top programs” participating in state, and no band DARING to miss UIL region. Despite this, Texas bands are evolving with changes brought about by out-of-state circuits faster than ever before, and I don’t see any clear-cut indication that more UIL oversight of the activity will reverse the natural evolution of marching band in Texas.

[gmtb617]

I will say that to respond to my own concession in the above post (paraphrased: in 6A, “equality of opportunity” for marching band success is debatable), the idea of the D1 and D2 state contests is a really interesting proposal, and I think it may be quite excellent from a quality-of-life standpoint. It will give UIL state more value to more schools.

[LeanderMomma]

  On 8/2/2019 at 3:52 PM, FloMoParent said:

I'm still not sold on the every year area and the non-state year area contest being held on the same weekend as the San Antonio Super Regional.

This may be a dumb question but will it be mandatory on non state years??

[principalagent]

  On 8/3/2019 at 4:48 AM, LeanderMomma said:

This may be a dumb question but will it be mandatory on non state years??

Not from a UIL level, but many school districts make UIL events mandatory—especially the high profile ones.

 

Like I said, this is all on purpose...

[LeanderMomma]

  On 8/3/2019 at 11:15 AM, principalagent said:

Not from a UIL level, but many school districts make UIL events mandatory—especially the high profile ones.

 

Like I said, this is all on purpose...

It’s......concerning.

 

Will they eventually try and force bands to choose? And why would this be necessary. They can live in harmony with one another!

[NETexasBandFan]

  On 8/3/2019 at 2:18 PM, LeanderMomma said:

It’s......concerning.

 

Will they eventually try and force bands to choose? And why would this be necessary. They can live in harmony with one another!

They could, as mentioned previously in another thread, UIL prevents sports from participating in non UIL circuits in place of UIL. It's very concerning. The main reason I can see most school districts justifying forcing their bands to go to UIL area over BOA SA is about Lone Star Cup points, otherwise I think school districts would prefer BOA because of how high-profile it is, but the Lone Star Cup is a big deal to many schools and band can bring some major points to help a school win.

[TWHSParent]

  On 8/3/2019 at 3:46 PM, NETexasBandFan said:

They could, as mentioned previously in another thread, UIL prevents sports from participating in non UIL circuits in place of UIL. It's very concerning. The main reason I can see most school districts justifying forcing their bands to go to UIL area over BOA SA is about Lone Star Cup points, otherwise I think school districts would prefer BOA because of how high-profile it is, but the Lone Star Cup is a big deal to many schools and band can bring some major points to help a school win.

 

As of now no Lone Star Cup points are issued for Area directly. Only if you qualify for state. I guess they could have a "fake" state qualification to add points...

 

I'm also curious if/how qualifying for state would change. At what point would the split between div I and div II be made? Region? Area? State? Or would it be like some of the smaller classes, where each band is just assigned div I or div II purely based upon enrollment?

[LeanderMomma]

Ultimately I hope they do what is best for Texas bands. Let the BOA bands continue to flourish in that setting while maintaining the current UIL schedule that alternates years and works around the BOA San Antonio schedule, and offer the division 1 and 2 annual area contests for bands who wish to do that instead. Don’t punish the bands in either circuit!

[Samuel Culper]

  On 8/3/2019 at 7:17 PM, LeanderMomma said:

Ultimately I hope they do what is best for Texas bands. Let the BOA bands continue to flourish in that setting while maintaining the current UIL schedule that alternates years and works around the BOA San Antonio schedule, and offer the division 1 and 2 annual area contests for bands who wish to do that instead. Don’t punish the bands in either circuit!

LM for UIL Grand Tsarina!

[AllenBandDad]

BOA needs to tread lightly and be as deferential as possible to the UIL.  Ultimately, the vast majority of school districts will choose UIL over BOA if forced to choose.  If the UIL wanted to go full bore, they could institute the "no outside league" rule for band, and make disqualification for ALL UIL band event the consequence (concert, sight reading, and solo & ensemble).  Keep in mind that band directors' resumes can be made or broken by the scores their bands have received at UIL events.  If a school decided to forgo UIL in favor of BOA (if a choice was forced), the directors at that school could be seriously limiting their career prospects.

[Samuel Culper]

  On 8/5/2019 at 12:35 PM, AllenBandDad said:

BOA needs to tread lightly and be as deferential as possible to the UIL.  Ultimately, the vast majority of school districts will choose UIL over BOA if forced to choose.  If the UIL wanted to go full bore, they could institute the "no outside league" rule for band, and make disqualification for ALL UIL band event the consequence (concert, sight reading, and solo & ensemble).  Keep in mind that band directors' resumes can be made or broken by the scores their bands have received at UIL events.  If a school decided to forgo UIL in favor of BOA (if a choice was forced), the directors at that school could be seriously limiting their career prospects.

 

That would be massively problematic and breathtakingly shortsighted.  And there would be big blowback on the UIL.

 

Not gonna happen.

[LeanderMomma]

Ultimately the kids lose when grownups play politics.

[AllenBandDad]

  On 8/5/2019 at 1:02 PM, Samuel Culper said:

That would be massively problematic and breathtakingly shortsighted.  And there would be big blowback on the UIL.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

No one has ever accused the UIL of always doing the smart thing.  But you can rest assured that they will make sure they are in charge and the top dog when it comes to school competition.  It would be interesting to see if this happened, would it drive the formation of independent high school level marching bands that would compete in BOA.  Kind of like club sports (soccer, etc.),