2022 6A UIL State

[CPGuardDad]

  On 11/9/2022 at 1:51 AM, FaultLineBlues said:

Totally understandable! I'm sorry if my explanation came off as snarky, I didn't mean for it to be that way! It's hard to quite understand how a lot of stuff is early on.

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No offense taken. Thanks

[Dallas Hobbs]

Top Half Analysis

Vandegrift- A 4A state champ and now a 6A state champ! This is their 5th state medal (2 🥇 , 2 🥈, 1 🥉) Their cleanliness is otherworldly! Well deserved first place.
 

Hebron- This is their 5th silver🥈 and 6th overall including their 🥇 last year. They’re my favorite group to listen to and their competitive season was amazing this year! 

 

Cedar Ridge- First state medal for them! 🥉  Their percussion must’ve been sublime to be 1st in prelims and finals! I wouldn’t know cuz I played bassoon and clarinet and can’t tell you what a flam or paradiddle is 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

The Woodlands- I accurately picked this placement(the upper three were all wrong 🙈). I rewarded them for their proficiency in playing that exposed, jazz stuff. Man was it fun to listen to! And although their drill formations may not have been the most complex, it was super exposed and they performed it very well.

 

Vista Ridge- I accurately picked this placement for them. I just wasn’t sure if I should put them above or below Reagan. I knew Reagan would place higher in more captions than Vista but I underestimated how high Vista would place in the captions they placed higher than Reagan in. 1st in Music Ensemble and Brass!🤯 I loved that French horn feature in the beginning and how well it blends with the rest of the brass, and how well they handle those SUPER exposed parts big hits! I think they got 5th because of their drill formations weren’t as complex or as exposed as the other groups.

 

Ronald Reagan- They were 2 lower than I predicted. Their body control throughout all of those complex choreography and drill formations was super impressive. And they sounded great in every section. I liked the moment when they were in pairs and would alternate between the brass and woodwinds
 

Flower Mound- . Accurately predicted this one. Loved their theme like everyone else. I think the bands above them just had a stronger integrity of sound in their brass. everyone performed their parts sublimely nonetheless. I loved the ignition music where the high brass alternate those 16th notes and how well they do it with dynamic contrast 

[celesta]

I had an odd feeling/hope that Vandy would win state after watching their BOA Austin finals performance despite it being a video. That was quickly replaced by Hebron after watching them at Bedford... I was absolutely floored.

The results were a bit of a shocker at first, but if you think about it, they really aren't that surprising.

One main thing that stuck to me was that Hebron wasn't as visually clean this year compared to last season.
Individual visuals were all over the place, and it really stuck out to me when I watched the BOA finals multicam. Choreography being a grace note to half a count late or early, flute angles being inconsistent, etc. That definitely explained their 2nd place in Visual Individual at SA finals.
Visual ensemble took a hit too. In 2021, there was a huge parallelogram rotation/dilation towards the end of the closer. That was SO ****ING CLEAN at state finals. As in, BD 2022 line rotation/spiral level clean. Nearly picture perfect. This year, there was a similar drill move in the closer. It wasn't as clean. The lines didn't hit; some people consistently missed cover downs. Some of the box rotations before the waterfall in the opener also looked iffy during the move (cleaned up at the hold, which means someone was taking a curved path.)
Overall, visuals just weren't at the level of cleanliness that they achieved in 2021.

I can't comment much on music as it's not something I'm really good at comparing (I thought Round Rock's ensemble sound was worse than Keller's at SA finals, but Keller scored lower... thank god I'm not a judge) and because I wasn't there in person. However, the mello sustain at the very end wasn't in tune and was uncharacteristically metallic/buzzy in sound, though it did lock in at the end. I don't know if it was because of NFHS, but it sounded better at SA finals.

So yeah, that's my analysis on why Hebron didn't win. A bit sad because I hoped for a double back-to-back state/SA title, but I'm also glad that Vandy won.
(Reagan is now next in line for preferred first-time state champion candidate.)

[BandFan95]

  On 11/9/2022 at 1:20 AM, VistaGuardDad said:

Vista and Vandy are LISD (also Cedar Park, Rouse, Leander and Glenn)

Round Rock, Cedar Ridge, and Westwood are RRISD

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I guess I should have been extremely specific in that we are in the same UIL district

[Dallas Hobbs]

Bottom Half Analysis

 

Coppell- Accurately predicted this placement. Those woodwind triplet parts in the opener are harder than they sound imo. It’s challenging to maintain rhythmic integrity while playing those for that long and they knocked it out of the park. I loved that big opening hit in the beginning with the guard embellishing the moment. Great performance! I think the bands above them were stronger marchers which helped their visual scores but they were great nonetheless. 
 

Marcus- Accurately predicted this one- They’re my 2nd favorites after Hebron because of how well they maintain a sense of blend and balance in the quietest music ever, how perfectly they shape every phrase, and were super clean technically. I think the groups above them were just more intense with their ensemble sound. 

Round Rock- Accurately predicted this one. Omg I love their brass! Especially in the ballad with how well they handle that exposed content. And they move so well for such a large group. I think the people above them were just cleaner but man can they perform.

Keller- Always love watching them live because of how they blast my face off😭😩. Maybe not as much dynamic contrast as the groups above them imo but what I love about them is how well the play on the move particularly at faster tempos. They switched with CTJ for my prediction. 
 

CTJ- Daniel Valdez was right, it was like watching a track meet when I saw them live at BOA SA! Boy can they move! And I love how LOUD they are! 
 

Pearland- Accurately predicted this one. Will always love how well the woodwinds handle that delicate Pegasus music. Great performers all around, love their guard too. 
 

Waxahachie- Yay region 20! Accurately predicted this placement too. I’ll always admire that concert band style they play with. There’s Something sophisticated and professional about the way they sound imo. I think the people above them were just more intense performers and had more active visual demands. I love the way they handle their music with the choreography in the beginning. Great control of sounds. And my goodness do they play well in extended phrases😩

 

 

[cjm715]

cedar ridge with a near perfect percussion score in prelims and finals..

[Dallas Hobbs]

  On 11/9/2022 at 2:37 AM, JustSomeGuy said:

So what are your rankings of the bands in terms of personal favorites?

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Hebron

Marcus

Flower Mound

Waxahachie

Keller

Round Rock

Coppell

Woodlands

Vandegrift

Cedar Ridge

Pearland

Vista Ridge

Ronald Reagan 

CTJ

[SaxPapi101]

Ah yes giving leeway to the Lewisville ISD schools

[david19c]

From what I’ve heard from a lot of Vista Ridge parents, A LOT of students (around 20ish) were out with the flu the past week which was seen through all the holes ever since BOA San Antonio. It seemed like most of them came back in time for State Finals, but I’m sure those students weren’t at 100% yet since they missed time or are still recovering which I’m sure impacted their marching technique. Looking at the ordinals, if they were in the 5-6 range for individual visual instead of 9 then they’d be looking at a medal. Regardless, insane grit and perseverance for that band to place 5th even with all their health issues. 

[CPGuardDad]

  On 11/9/2022 at 3:34 AM, david19c said:

From what I’ve heard from a lot of Vista Ridge parents, A LOT of students (around 20ish) were out with the flu the past week which was seen through all the holes ever since BOA San Antonio.

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They had so many that they actually ended up having to make one of their buses a quarantine bus. 

[Txpharmguy]

  On 11/9/2022 at 1:51 AM, FaultLineBlues said:

Totally understandable! I'm sorry if my explanation came off as snarky, I didn't mean for it to be that way! It's hard to quite understand how a lot of stuff is early on. 

 

I believe Round Rock making San Antonio finals this year secured their trip for this year! Do we know when Vandy plans on returning? They kinda tore the place down last time, and a return would probably go equally as well. 

Also, a ten year anniversary of their first and only visit would be a great time for Cedar Ridge to return to the event! 

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Round Rock is going to London June 2024 so don't think they're going to Indy in 2023

[Vidal28]

  On 11/9/2022 at 2:29 AM, celesta said:

I had an odd feeling/hope that Vandy would win state after watching their BOA Austin finals performance despite it being a video. That was quickly replaced by Hebron after watching them at Bedford... I was absolutely floored.

The results were a bit of a shocker at first, but if you think about it, they really aren't that surprising.

One main thing that stuck to me was that Hebron wasn't as visually clean this year compared to last season.
Individual visuals were all over the place, and it really stuck out to me when I watched the BOA finals multicam. Choreography being a grace note to half a count late or early, flute angles being inconsistent, etc. That definitely explained their 2nd place in Visual Individual at SA finals.
Visual ensemble took a hit too. In 2021, there was a huge parallelogram rotation/dilation towards the end of the closer. That was SO ****ING CLEAN at state finals. As in, BD 2022 line rotation/spiral level clean. Nearly picture perfect. This year, there was a similar drill move in the closer. It wasn't as clean. The lines didn't hit; some people consistently missed cover downs. Some of the box rotations before the waterfall in the opener also looked iffy during the move (cleaned up at the hold, which means someone was taking a curved path.)
Overall, visuals just weren't at the level of cleanliness that they achieved in 2021.

I can't comment much on music as it's not something I'm really good at comparing (I thought Round Rock's ensemble sound was worse than Keller's at SA finals, but Keller scored lower... thank god I'm not a judge) and because I wasn't there in person. However, the mello sustain at the very end wasn't in tune and was uncharacteristically metallic/buzzy in sound, though it did lock in at the end. I don't know if it was because of NFHS, but it sounded better at SA finals.

So yeah, that's my analysis on why Hebron didn't win. A bit sad because I hoped for a double back-to-back state/SA title, but I'm also glad that Vandy won.
(Reagan is now next in line for preferred first-time state champion candidate.)

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I would say for Hebron, they probably just took their show a bit too fast, and yeah, the mello sustain I felt was a bit off most of the time I heard. You can do a lot right and be incredibly proficient at your instrument, but if you stick out, you do get ticked, it does matter. I love how hard Hebron pushes their students in their performance too. You can also see just how pure Vista ridge sounded all throughout, they were so impressive as well so I do see why they edged ahead of Hebron in brass, even if they didn’t have the higher content score. I feel like reiterating my point that their 2021 show placed as high as they did in the music scores for a reason, they were just the better sounding band by quite a significant margin, whereas you could say that was the case *completely* this year. There were some rough edges that made it be just slightly less than pristine compared to other groups that were able to match them better this year. But even then they were still one of the best sounding groups in the state and still as excellent as ever and had a great finish to their year! I can’t wait to see how they do for themselves the rest of the year, especially with their selection to TMEA honor band. It’ll be awesome to hear this group again in the spring! And then next fall, we’ll see what they do then👀

[scoobydoo]

  On 11/9/2022 at 3:46 AM, Txpharmguy said:

Round Rock is going to London June 2024 so don't think they're going to Indy in 2023

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They will be going to GN due to their success this year. I thought originally that they would not be going because of a Disney trip this coming spring and a trip to London in 24.

[david19c]

  On 11/9/2022 at 3:44 AM, VistaGuardDad said:

They had so many that they actually ended up having to make one of their buses a quarantine bus. 

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Man, if only we could’ve had Vista at full strength. What could have been. Still insane to me that they used to be a bubble band that was more often out of finals than in, and now they have the best brass and ensemble sound in the state of Texas with less members and money. It’s inspiring to see the growth of this program since placing 24th at state in 2016. I hope this puts more respect on Vista’s name in future years. 

[peshbandkid]

  On 11/9/2022 at 2:37 AM, JustSomeGuy said:

So what are your rankings of the bands in terms of personal favorites?

Expand  

Vista Ridge

Cedar Ridge

Waxahachie

Ronald Reagan

Round Rock

CTJ

Vandegrift

The Woodlands

Hebron

Coppell

Flower Mound

Marcus

Keller

Pearland

 

Vista grew on me BIG TIME this season! Musically superb (and it reflected in the scores,) and CEDAR-FREAKING-RIDGE!!!

In a way, LISD North was definetely not the same as last year (at least for me.) Penstriped, Dr. Seuss, and The Missing Piece were all just phenomenal to watch! While I didn't hate any of their shows this year, I found it more difficult to really engage and love them this year.

[Dallas Hobbs]

So I was looking at the recaps and Vandegrift won the tiebreaker via a 5-2 judges favoritism. I guess with 7 judges it doesn’t need to be as close as a 4-3 split. 

[Nny14]

Round Rock 13th in Percussion.... nah

[Vidal28]

  On 11/9/2022 at 4:06 AM, peshbandkid said:

Vista Ridge

Cedar Ridge

Waxahachie

Ronald Reagan

Round Rock

CTJ

Vandegrift

The Woodlands

Hebron

Coppell

Flower Mound

Marcus

Keller

Pearland

 

Vista grew on me BIG TIME this season! Musically superb (and it reflected in the scores,) and CEDAR-FREAKING-RIDGE!!!

In a way, LISD North was definetely not the same as last year (at least for me.) Penstriped, Dr. Seuss, and The Missing Piece were all just phenomenal to watch! While I didn't hate any of their shows this year, I found it more difficult to really engage and love them this year.

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Agreed, we’ll see what LISD north pulls out of their hats next year though. I most certainly will be there to watch as a DFW local here haha

[peshbandkid]

  On 11/8/2022 at 9:26 PM, BandDad4 said:

I know finals is still going on, but speaking with the kids, some band parents across a few bands that did not make it into finals. Some of them are starting to wonder what is the point of SABOA and State if its the same bands year and year out. Bias, money, and juding inconsistancy is starting to build up.

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As a former high school marcher, there is disappointment when you can't break the top. However, I don't think the reasosn you listed are applicable in a lot of cases. Money will separate all high school activities, judging inconsistency happens, yet there tends to be some reasoning for why. It is extremely  important for bands and their students to make small, attainable goals in order to build a stronger program.

In my senior year of high school, our major goal was to make Area finals in Area C. When we heard we made it, the energy we felt was unmatched. Did we go to state? No. Did our band get significantly better this season? Yes! 

 

[Zil]

  On 11/9/2022 at 1:18 AM, VistaGuardDad said:

I'm pretty new to band. This is only my second year and we aren't even from Texas so our first two kids didn't go to school with a band that did much more than play some Queen at football games. Can someone explain what the different things mean in the scores? I get the music stuff, that's pretty straight forward. What is Visual Individual? Does that mean we don't have enough guard to compete with the guys that have 50 to 90 guard members?

 

Also, if this isn't appropriate or anyone takes offence please let me know and I'll remove this part of the post. No offense meant at all, but I don't understand the scores that Cedar Ridge got. I've seen posts about their drum core being amazing both at BOA and in state, but I didn't see anything the really pushed it over say Vista or Vandy. I totally get visual ensemble score (I love that the front end also has a guard like uniform). As I said, I don't mean any offense because I do actually enjoy their show I just don't understand how it's better than most of the people they placed in front of. Apparently completely because of my ignorance. 

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New to this too but I've learned a lot just by reading on this forum. There are a lot of people here with first hand experience (which I have none) or have been involved with the arts for a long time. Here's what I've learned so far:

On the visual question, celesta had a very good break down of the Hebron performance that describes what judges are looking for. Here's the quote (emphasis are mine):

  On 11/9/2022 at 2:29 AM, celesta said:

One main thing that stuck to me was that Hebron wasn't as visually clean this year compared to last season.
Individual visuals were all over the place, and it really stuck out to me when I watched the BOA finals multicam. Choreography being a grace note to half a count late or early, flute angles being inconsistent, etc. That definitely explained their 2nd place in Visual Individual at SA finals.
Visual ensemble took a hit too. In 2021, there was a huge parallelogram rotation/dilation towards the end of the closer. That was SO ****ING CLEAN at state finals. As in, BD 2022 line rotation/spiral level clean. Nearly picture perfect. This year, there was a similar drill move in the closer. It wasn't as clean. The lines didn't hit; some people consistently missed cover downs. Some of the box rotations before the waterfall in the opener also looked iffy during the move (cleaned up at the hold, which means someone was taking a curved path.)
Overall, visuals just weren't at the level of cleanliness that they achieved in 2021.

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I've also seen it described as commitment by each and every performer. Not just the guards but each person on the field because each person has a role and message to convey. And they have to do it for the whole show because you never know where the judge is looking.

On Cedar Ridge, you will just have to trust the experts on this (and I am definitely not one of them). The technical accuracy/precision that the percussionists are expected to perform to be considered great at this is unreal. I personally am not able to tell but they can hear when a drummer is off by even a smidge or if there is inconsistency in the keyboard playing. The snares for example has to sound like a single player (so there is no "width in the sound") and that's hard when you're doing that at the speeds that most of these kids are expected to play. It's also not just about banging the drum, there are nuances of dynamics, phrasing and musicality which again might be hard to discern/identify for the untrained ear. (Sorry, I'm a bit passionate about percussion even though I'm not really good at it. )

[TLozRook]

For those of you new to band or wanting to improve, one thing our band does is share with everyone (parents included) the judges' recordings. It really helps to hear exactly what they're looking for. For example, during prelims we got the note, "It's important to make a curve with your arm that starts from your spine, not from your shoulder." And, "Make sure those sabers are caught at the 45-degree angle." So the whole band had the opportunity to hear that and realize this is what this judging panel is looking for. If your band program doesn't do this, maybe go to your Band Boosters and see if it will work for you. 

[GBOCmello]

Fun fact: if you take the SCORES from the recap and average them instead of the rankings, this is how it turns out.

1 Hebron 98.329 (+1)

2 Vandegrift 97.971 (-1)

3 Cedar Ridge 97.614

4 The Woodlands 97.014

5 Vista Ridge 96.857

6 Reagan 96.757

7 Flower Mound 95.471

8 Marcus 94.686 (+1)

9 Coppell 94.214 (-1)

10 Keller 93.171 (+1)

11 Round Rock 92.857 (-1)

12 CTJ 92.071

13 Waxahachie 91.329 (+1)

14 Pearland 91.257 (-1)

 

[1998-2018]

  On 11/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, peshbandkid said:

As a former high school marcher, there is disappointment when you can't break the top. However, I don't think the reasosn you listed are applicable in a lot of cases. Money will separate all high school activities, judging inconsistency happens, yet there tends to be some reasoning for why. It is extremely  important for bands and their students to make small, attainable goals in order to build a stronger program.

In my senior year of high school, our major goal was to make Area finals in Area C. When we heard we made it, the energy we felt was unmatched. Did we go to state? No. Did our band get significantly better this season? Yes! 

 

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That’s an excellent perspective!

With the “It’s always the same bands.”contingent seemingly as dug in and frustrated as ever about the SASR and SMBC, I went back to review the other qualifiers and finishing order from the first time (1998) our program made Finals at a BOA Regional Competition.

1. Spring H.S.

2. Winston Churchill H.S.

3. L.D. Bell H.S.

4. The Woodlands H.S.

5. Seguin H.S.

7. Comeaux H.S.

6. Pflugerville H.S.

8. Cy-Fair H.S.

9. Fossil Ridge H.S.

10. Keller H.S.

Just two of these bands, The Woodlands and Keller, were also in this years SASR Finals. The year previous to this first time Finals appearance Keller finished in 17th place.

For additional comparison I also reviewed the Finalists for the 1998 and 1999 SMBC. Nobody from the 1998 SMBC Finals was also in the 2022 SASR or SMBC. Coppell and Keller are the only Finalist from the 1999 SMBC to also be in the 2022 SASR and SMBC Finals. Again, just two bands. That’s hardly “Always the same bands.”

Admittedly, 1998/1999 was a long time ago, but that’s kind of the point. Making Finals at these competitions can be a long and difficult process, and making Finals constantly is even harder, but turnover does happen regularly. Take the time to review other shorter timelines and you will find results can come in streaks with bands making 4,5,6,7+ consecutive Finals appearances or, more likely, spreading them intermittently across 10+ years, but there will be new names too. (Welcome to the club, Waxahatchie!!!)

If your kid doesn’t make Finals during their four years, take pride in the improvement they were a part of and celebrate the foundation they are building for the kids that follow them.

Like peshbandkid did.

Keep The Faith

[FaultLineBlues]

By the way, if anyone manages to find a video of finals awards I'd love to see it! 

[natertater21000]

It is interesting to note that if UIL averaged all the judge's raw scores (while all being weighted the same) to create a more BOA style 0-100 scale that the results would have been flipped.

Hebron-98.3

Vandegrift-97.9

Edit: this post is not meant to take away anything from Vandegrift, I'm just a huge numbers nerd 🤓