2022 6A UIL State

[MikeKyu]

26 minutes ago, natertater21000 said:

It is interesting to note that if UIL averaged all the judge's raw scores (while all being weighted the same) to create a more BOA style 0-100 scale that the results would have been flipped.

Hebron-98.3

Vandegrift-97.9

Edit: this post is not meant to take away anything from Vandegrift, I'm just a huge numbers nerd 🤓

Now do it using the BOA 60/40 weighting

[natertater21000]

13 minutes ago, MikeKyu said:

Now do it using the BOA 60/40 weighting

That would give Hebron a 98.110 and Vandy a 98.155. Still CRAZY close!

This one doesn't work as well though because it would assign 60% of the score to one judge.

[AlphaOmega]

I just saw Reagan's show. I feel so bad that their electronics failed. 

I heard that a lot of these bands have Plan B's for in the event electronics fail. They also have "we are about to go overtime, stop and evacuate the field" protocols. It's best to be prepared, I guess. 

[BandFan59]

Kind of a random fact, but last year Marcus, Flower Mound, and Coppell placed 3rd, 4th, and 5th at state. This year the order switched around with Flower Mound coming out on top and Coppell behind them, but they all placed right next to each other again in 7th, 8th, and 9th. DFW bands stick together!

[BandDad4]

18 hours ago, JTApex said:

IMO, the recaps never tell the full story. To truly understand, you'd need access to the full judging sheets that show their reasoning. In any activity that is judged subjectively, each judge has his/her own perspective and that will be reflected in how they rank each group. Note that I'm not saying they are slanted to one band over another, just that each may value each of the criteria they are responsible for a little differently.

With a field as good as the 14 finalists this year are, the judges may well have to focus on fairly minor, to us, things in order to create some real distinctions between several phenomenal groups.

I'm curious about those judging sheets, I assume these are only available to the directors? I always wondered why we see consistant scoring and then more often than one not you have this one judge as we used to say, smoking crack, with a wildly different scoring. Perhaps we should starting throwing out the high and low?

[seafoodbuffet]

2 hours ago, FaultLineBlues said:

By the way, if anyone manages to find a video of finals awards I'd love to see it! 

Not mine but here you go

 

[Dallas Hobbs]

1 hour ago, BandFan59 said:

Kind of a random fact, but last year Marcus, Flower Mound, and Coppell placed 3rd, 4th, and 5th at state. This year the order switched around with Flower Mound coming out on top and Coppell behind them, but they all placed right next to each other again in 7th, 8th, and 9th. DFW bands stick together!

Regarding flower mound, and i don’t really see this as a negative since they were 2nd at TMEA state honor band and have numerous all-staters, I’ve noticed their placements over the years at state have gotten lower. From state years in 2016-2022 the trend went 1st->2nd->3rd->4th ->7th. Anybody have an idea why that is?

[TenorSaxMan16]

Does anyone have a meaning on what Hebron's show was? I understand it was something with a radio station but like also the ocean? If I'm wrong just tell me lol

[Dallas Hobbs]

10 minutes ago, TenorSaxMan16 said:

Does anyone have a meaning on what Hebron's show was? I understand it was something with a radio station but like also the ocean? If I'm wrong just tell me lol

I think they were going for a jukebox format of popular music we’ve heard on the radio + classical, orchestral style music. Hence the stereo props, CD props. And the boat props, I think refers to the “Odyssey” part of the show title “Odyssey FM”, while the other props refer to the “FM” part.

Musically I think the bergersen and Vivaldi music refer to the Odyssey part cuz I can imagine being a Viking in boat with this music playing in the background(lol) while the other selections refer to the FM part since those are more mainstream, popular music selections we’ve heard on the radio. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Dallas Hobbs

[itsstephenyo]

11 minutes ago, TenorSaxMan16 said:

Does anyone have a meaning on what Hebron's show was? I understand it was something with a radio station but like also the ocean? If I'm wrong just tell me lol

They used "waves" to portray the show idea, radio waves, water waves, etc. Odyssey FM was like a radio station, and the ships referred to the greek/roman story of The Odyssey.

[BandFan59]

6 minutes ago, Dallas Hobbs said:

Regarding flower mound, and i don’t really see this as a negative since they were 2nd at TMEA state honor band and have numerous all-staters, I’ve noticed their placements over the years at state have gotten lower. From state years in 2016-2022 the trend went 1st->2nd->3rd->4th ->7th. Anybody have an idea why that is?

I think last year their show was more designed for a BOA setting and peaked at Grand Nationals rather than UIL State. As for this year I personally feel that their show, while still fantastic, wasn't up to the level we've seen from them in the past. Musically it was still very good and the design was super creative but drill wise it was a bit safe in my opinion. That said it was still an awesome show and I'm sure they'll be back to the heights we all know they're capable of reaching next year.

[TenorSaxMan16]

thanks @Dallas Hobbs@itsstephenyothat makes sense.

[mmbandfan]

3 hours ago, 1998-2018 said:

That’s an excellent perspective!

With the “It’s always the same bands.”contingent seemingly as dug in and frustrated as ever about the SASR and SMBC, I went back to review the other qualifiers and finishing order from the first time (1998) our program made Finals at a BOA Regional Competition.

1. Spring H.S.

2. Winston Churchill H.S.

3. L.D. Bell H.S.

4. The Woodlands H.S.

5. Seguin H.S.

7. Comeaux H.S.

6. Pflugerville H.S.

8. Cy-Fair H.S.

9. Fossil Ridge H.S.

10. Keller H.S.

Just two of these bands, The Woodlands and Keller, were also in this years SASR Finals. The year previous to this first time Finals appearance Keller finished in 17th place.

For additional comparison I also reviewed the Finalists for the 1998 and 1999 SMBC. Nobody from the 1998 SMBC Finals was also in the 2022 SASR or SMBC. Coppell and Keller are the only Finalist from the 1999 SMBC to also be in the 2022 SASR and SMBC Finals. Again, just two bands. That’s hardly “Always the same bands.”

Admittedly, 1998/1999 was a long time ago, but that’s kind of the point. Making Finals at these competitions can be a long and difficult process, and making Finals constantly is even harder, but turnover does happen regularly. Take the time to review other shorter timelines and you will find results can come in streaks with bands making 4,5,6,7+ consecutive Finals appearances or, more likely, spreading them intermittently across 10+ years, but there will be new names too. (Welcome to the club, Waxahatchie!!!)

If your kid doesn’t make Finals during their four years, take pride in the improvement they were a part of and celebrate the foundation they are building for the kids that follow them.

Like peshbandkid did.

Keep The Faith

7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw.

Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999)

[TenorSaxMan16]

This literally happens to me every year. As soon as the season ends I get super hyped for the next one and have a ton of questions. Question, Can someone explain music and visual general effect. I should know this im a sophmore

[Samuel Culper]

27 minutes ago, mmbandfan said:

7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw.

Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999)

Interesting that list includes the bands that came in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th and 7th.

[1998-2018]

26 minutes ago, mmbandfan said:

7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw.

Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999)

Ha! Wow, that’s quite a collection of excellent bands. I’m not quite sure if you were intending to support my point or not, but I feel like your observation was ultimately supportive.

[Efrin]

17 hours ago, Dallas Hobbs said:

So I was looking at the recaps and Vandegrift won the tiebreaker via a 5-2 judges favoritism. I guess with 7 judges it doesn’t need to be as close as a 4-3 split. 

Correct.  And this is a perfect example of how the ordinal scoring system can (intentionally) produce a different champion than a "highest total" scoring system.  Hebron had the higher total score (6,883 vs. 6,858) but 5 of the 7 judges ranked Vandegrift higher.  Pretty sure UIL would tell you that this is a feature, not a bug.

[natertater21000]

38 minutes ago, mmbandfan said:

7 of the 14 finalist schools this year did not exist in 1998, btw.

Vandegrift (2009), Cedar Ridge (2008), Vista Ridge (2003), Flower Mound (1999), Hebron (1999), CTJ (2008), and Ronald Reagan (1999)

Just goes to show the insane amount of population growth so many Texas suburbs have been seeing in the last 20 years.

[bancl]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:26 PM, BandDad4 said:

I know finals is still going on, but speaking with the kids, some band parents across a few bands that did not make it into finals. Some of them are starting to wonder what is the point of SABOA and State if its the same bands year and year out. Bias, money, and juding inconsistancy is starting to build up.

Considering programs rising and falling as well as some that have chosen not to attend one of the San Antonio shows because of Grand Nats, there are only 5 programs by my count that have been both 6A SMC and SASR finalists every year since 2015 (excluding the COVID year):

Regan, Vandegrift, Keller, Marcus, and Hebron.

 

To say that it's the same bands year in and year out is simply not factual.  

[Dallas Hobbs]

So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. 

[itsstephenyo]

3 minutes ago, Dallas Hobbs said:

So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. 

I wanna say it felt like that, too. I didn't attend the SMBC finals but at Super Regionals, TWHS, Reagan, Hebron, Vandegrift, and Vista were kind of a cut above the rest. 

[josephbandfan]

8 minutes ago, Dallas Hobbs said:

So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. 

They didn’t do the bottom half/top half split previously so that could be a factor towards it. 

[BlastFromThePast]

2 hours ago, Efrin said:

Correct.  And this is a perfect example of how the ordinal scoring system can (intentionally) produce a different champion than a "highest total" scoring system.  Hebron had the higher total score (6,883 vs. 6,858) but 5 of the 7 judges ranked Vandegrift higher.  Pretty sure UIL would tell you that this is a feature, not a bug.

Yep. Mapping each judge's score to an ordinal before adding them together introduces statistically random "noise" into the total score for each band. Perhaps this is what makes UIL results more surprising/unpredictable than other contests -- the element of randomness. Maybe this approach is meant to counter some of the subjectiveness.

[Rubisco]

Wow! Vandegrift with the upset here. (I'm just dropping back in now that my election obsession is subsiding. 😄) This has really been a surprisingly competitive season at the very top. Ultimately, I think it's a healthy thing to have a lot of bands at a similar level of awesomeness.

[BandFan59]

4 hours ago, Dallas Hobbs said:

So I noticed there were no top half/bottom half shifts this year. Last year Marcus went from 7th to 3rd and CTJ went from 5th to 8th but everyone stayed within their respective half this year like with BOA contests. 

This is likely an effect of UIL implementing the top half-bottom half split. Looking at the finals recap last year you could see there was a lot more range in the ordinals bands received from the judges while this year, top half bands were almost exclusively ranked between 1-7 and bottom half bands 8-14. Probably something we should expect to see in the future as well, just seems to be a natural outcome of the split.