utee94 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 3:20 PM, tubapop said: Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I would pull my kid from band if the hourly restrictions were loosened any more than they presently are (and I know many other parents would, too). My primary aim in sending my kid to school is to get an education in math, science, language, etc. - not to win band competitions. Band contests are a heck of a lot more fun in the moment, but they're not the priority. My kids struggle enough with challenging course loads and demanding practice schedules - I can't imagine putting more practice hours in than they already do. And I say all this as a former band student who, like my child, also competed at the highest levels in the state and nationally. Knowing many parents feel this way, band enrollment at our school was undoubtedly decrease, and I imagine the same would occur across the state, at least in schools with like minded parents. My point is there can be unintended and far reaching consequences to changing the hourly limits so we should be careful what we wish for. Expand I have to agree so I guess I have an unpopular opinion as well. I'm okay with changing the 10-hour rule to 15-hour rule, because it sounds like that really only affects the dynamics of rehearsal during Summer Band. But I'd be absolutely opposed to allowing any more practice time during the schoolyear. I am delighted that my children enjoy band so much, and I'm also delighted that they are fortunate enough to be attending a school with a marching band that performs, and achieves, at the highest level of State competition. But the primary purpose of school, is school. Not marching band. And band in Texas even in its current form, is nearly all-consuming. When I was in high school I was in band, drama, and choir. I had time for all of that, because no one extracurricular was allowed to dominate. Things are different now. It sounds like in other states, the bands are allowed to rehearse even longer hours during the schoolyear? That's absolutely crazy to me and if Texas ever made a move in that direction, I'd be similarly forced to pull my kids from band so they could focus on the true purpose of school. tubapop and Zil 2 Quote
natertater21000 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 3:48 PM, utee94 said: I have to agree so I guess I have an unpopular opinion as well. I'm okay with changing the 10-hour rule to 15-hour rule, because it sounds like that really only affects the dynamics of rehearsal during Summer Band. But I'd be absolutely opposed to allowing any more practice time during the schoolyear. I am delighted that my children enjoy band so much, and I'm also delighted that they are fortunate enough to be attending a school with a marching band that performs, and achieves, at the highest level of State competition. But the primary purpose of school, is school. Not marching band. And band in Texas even in its current form, is nearly all-consuming. When I was in high school I was in band, drama, and choir. I had time for all of that, because no one extracurricular was allowed to dominate. Things are different now. It sounds like in other states, the bands are allowed to rehearse even longer hours during the schoolyear? That's absolutely crazy to me and if Texas ever made a move in that direction, I'd be similarly forced to pull my kids from band so they could focus on the true purpose of school. Expand The biggest difference in rehearsal time comes from some out of state bands using off Saturdays as essentially extra summer band days. With an 8-noon and a 1-5 rehearsal block. There are other differences that don’t involve rehearsal time as well. Carmel’s marching band for example is entirely voluntary. It isn’t like Texas where if you’re in band you do marching in the fall and concert in the spring. If you just want to do concert and pass on the marching you can. This means that every single student on the field for Carmel specifically chose to be in the marching band. That’s not always the case in Texas even within the top programs. Quote
utee94 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 4:13 PM, natertater21000 said: The biggest difference in rehearsal time comes from some out of state bands using off Saturdays as essentially extra summer band days. With an 8-noon and a 1-5 rehearsal block. Expand Yeah if my kids' band tried to do that, I'd nip it in the bud, or pull them out. That's ridiculous. Those Saturdays are about the only time my kids have, to catch up on schoolwork or even, heaven forbid, sleep. On 11/17/2023 at 4:13 PM, natertater21000 said: There are other differences that don’t involve rehearsal time as well. Carmel’s marching band for example is entirely voluntary. It isn’t like Texas where if you’re in band you do marching in the fall and concert in the spring. If you just want to do concert and pass on the marching you can. This means that every single student on the field for Carmel specifically chose to be in the marching band. That’s not always the case in Texas even within the top programs. Expand I don't have a strong opinion on this. Good for them, I guess? I can't speak for my own kids' marching band, but when I was a high school student, I didn't know anyone in my high school band, that preferred concert season over marching season. Most of us viewed concert season as "the time to focus on other stuff." Quote
crunchycookie3 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 Eight-hour rule this, eight-hour rule that.... ultimately, TX groups have won in Indy several times despite the eight-hour rule. I really do not think it is that big of a hinderance to the success of TX programs. In complete honesty, the history of band in Texas seems to care more about the music. It is so true that an Indiana band never sounds like a Texas band, but Texas bands don't march or experiment visually nearly as much as Indiana bands. Visually, I think the Houston area is really starting to (finally) push the state forward. Take a look at TWHS creativity in visual and Bridgeland and Cy-Fair's achievement in the caption. Within the next couple of years, I'm thinking we'll see the strength of vis increase in Texas drastically. ChristopherRoden 1 Quote
utee94 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 5:21 PM, crunchycookie3 said: Eight-hour rule this, eight-hour rule that.... ultimately, TX groups have won in Indy several times despite the eight-hour rule. I really do not think it is that big of a hinderance to the success of TX programs. In complete honesty, the history of band in Texas seems to care more about the music. It is so true that an Indiana band never sounds like a Texas band, but Texas bands don't march or experiment visually nearly as much as Indiana bands. Visually, I think the Houston area is really starting to (finally) push the state forward. Take a look at TWHS creativity in visual and Bridgeland and Cy-Fair's achievement in the caption. Within the next couple of years, I'm thinking we'll see the strength of vis increase in Texas drastically. Expand You seem to be taking this discussion as some kind of attack. Why? Quote
natertater21000 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 4:32 PM, utee94 said: I don't have a strong opinion on this. Good for them, I guess? I can't speak for my own kids' marching band, but when I was a high school student, I didn't know anyone in my high school band, that preferred concert season over marching season. Most of us viewed concert season as "the time to focus on other stuff." Expand It’s not a rampant problem by any means but you’d be surprised. utee94 1 Quote
utee94 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 7:44 PM, natertater21000 said: It’s not a rampant problem by any means but you’d be surprised. Expand Fair enough. It's an interesting topic, I think I'll ask my kids about it this weekend and see what the sentiment is around their friend groups in band. Quote
crunchycookie3 Posted November 17, 2023 Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 7:42 PM, utee94 said: You seem to be taking this discussion as some kind of attack. Why? Expand Definitely not! I just think that TX band fans seem to use the eight-hour rule to point to as why they’re not as successful at Indy when-to me-it comes down to them placing more emphasis on music than the visual caption. Just giving my two-cents! Quote
Popular Post Vidal28 Posted November 17, 2023 Popular Post Posted November 17, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 8:20 PM, crunchycookie3 said: Definitely not! I just think that TX band fans seem to use the eight-hour rule to point to as why they’re not as successful at Indy when-to me-it comes down to them placing more emphasis on music than the visual caption. Just giving my two-cents! Expand I definitely think the topic of conversation has changed to more than just solely “8-hour rule bad”. As for parents that may be concerned about there being even more time that they think is wise, I would imagine quite a few bands don’t do the 8 hour maximum of rehearsals every week. Increasing the maximum wouldn’t mean everyone would do more automatically, each program and staff would communicate with involved parents, boosters, etc. about a potential new change and a discussion would be had about what they want to do for the program, as is the case already now. The maximum isn’t a mandate other than, “you better NOT go above this amount!!” Dallas Hobbs, Zil and utee94 3 Quote
11BandMan11 Posted November 19, 2023 Posted November 19, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 8:45 PM, Vidal28 said: I definitely think the topic of conversation has changed to more than just solely “8-hour rule bad”. As for parents that may be concerned about there being even more time that they think is wise, I would imagine quite a few bands don’t do the 8 hour maximum of rehearsals every week. Increasing the maximum wouldn’t mean everyone would do more automatically, each program and staff would communicate with involved parents, boosters, etc. about a potential new change and a discussion would be had about what they want to do for the program, as is the case already now. The maximum isn’t a mandate other than, “you better NOT go above this amount!!” Expand I genuinely don't know how any Band Directors and staff members would be able to survive if the hours were increased, even marginally. Back when I was a student for our end of the year banquet I added up the number of hours our Directors worked to tell everyone how dedicated and amazing our staff was blah blah blah, and now looking back on it, its CRAZY how much Band Directors work for how little they are paid. I don't have the speech file anymore still but if I recall correctly, from Band Camp through our football season ending, end of last week of July which went into August and our football team was a one and done in the playoffs that year, it was OVER 1,000 HOURS CUMULATIVE THROUGH TO THE START OF NOVEMBER! Just over 3 months, and over 1,000 hours of school days, rehearsals, contests, etc. LKendrick and FEDude 2 Quote
FEDude Posted November 19, 2023 Posted November 19, 2023 I loved concert season! For anyone planning on doing anything music related in college, concert season is kinda when you build your resume. I had several friends that went to or at least auditioned for UNT (my first dream school when I wanted to become a band director). It seems like no university (or drum corp for that matter) cares how successful your school's marching program is. It seemed like making región band, getting a 1 at state solo and ensemble, and their actual audition pieces was a much bigger deal. I didn't do music after high school. But if I were a high band director, I'd probably still stick to the 8hr rule even if it got repealed. I don't believe they're being paid anything extra for their work (maybe techs are), and I like my family enough to want to see them more than a couple hours a week. NISD paid teachers 50K starting when I was a student. That is definitely not enough for 12 hour work days. Quote
jmartin1056 Posted November 19, 2023 Posted November 19, 2023 On 11/13/2023 at 11:23 PM, pancake said: does anyone have any recipes of high cams from finals Expand I would appreciate that recipe too if anyone is sharing 👀 FEDude 1 Quote
lost Posted November 20, 2023 Posted November 20, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 3:48 PM, utee94 said: I have to agree so I guess I have an unpopular opinion as well. I'm okay with changing the 10-hour rule to 15-hour rule, because it sounds like that really only affects the dynamics of rehearsal during Summer Band. But I'd be absolutely opposed to allowing any more practice time during the schoolyear. I am delighted that my children enjoy band so much, and I'm also delighted that they are fortunate enough to be attending a school with a marching band that performs, and achieves, at the highest level of State competition. But the primary purpose of school, is school. Not marching band. And band in Texas even in its current form, is nearly all-consuming. When I was in high school I was in band, drama, and choir. I had time for all of that, because no one extracurricular was allowed to dominate. Things are different now. It sounds like in other states, the bands are allowed to rehearse even longer hours during the schoolyear? That's absolutely crazy to me and if Texas ever made a move in that direction, I'd be similarly forced to pull my kids from band so they could focus on the true purpose of school. Expand I think these takes are fundamentally dangerous for students, but I digress. Quote
utee94 Posted November 20, 2023 Posted November 20, 2023 On 11/20/2023 at 12:21 AM, lost said: I think these takes are fundamentally dangerous for students, but I digress. Expand I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, so feel free to elaborate. If you are suggesting that I would ever do anything at all that is fundamentally dangerous for my own children, that is simultaneously ignorant and incredibly insulting, so I certainly hope that's not the line you're taking. tubapop 1 Quote
lost Posted November 21, 2023 Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/20/2023 at 4:29 AM, utee94 said: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, so feel free to elaborate. If you are suggesting that I would ever do anything at all that is fundamentally dangerous for my own children, that is simultaneously ignorant and incredibly insulting, so I certainly hope that's not the line you're taking. Expand Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that. Quote
Hard Core Band Fan Posted November 21, 2023 Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 9:10 PM, lost said: Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that. Expand I think this person just has to win the argument. Let them win and maybe they'll move on and we can get back to something more productive. Quote
utee94 Posted November 21, 2023 Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 9:10 PM, lost said: Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that. Expand I still have no idea what you're talking about, nor how it relates to my position on UIL/Texas already allowing enough time for band, and not wanting to allow any more. I am advocating maintaining the potential for a well-rounded student with enough time for extracurricular activities as well as rigorous academic pursuits. And honestly we don't even have THAT, here in Texas. Marching band takes up the entirety of my kids' time that can be devoted to extracurricular activities. When I was a high school student in Texas, I was in band, drama, and choir. But now, with the way both the co-curricular classroom time is allotted, and with the amount of extracurricular time marching band commands, my children have been forced to decide between band and pretty much any other extracurricular activity. They love band, and I love that they love it and happily encourage them to work at it as hard as they can. I participate in the parent-pit-crew for my kids' band, and to date since August I've spent around 100 volunteer hours doing so. I was in band, and I believe in band. But I'd certainly be opposed to marching band taking up any MORE time, than it currently does. On 11/21/2023 at 9:48 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said: I think this person just has to win the argument. Let them win and maybe they'll move on and we can get back to something more productive. Expand What on Earth are you talking about? WoodlandsMom4ever and tubapop 2 Quote
Hard Core Band Fan Posted November 21, 2023 Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 9:54 PM, utee94 said: I still have no idea what you're talking about, nor how it relates to my position on UIL/Texas already allowing enough time for band, and not wanting to allow any more. I am advocating maintaining the potential for a well-rounded student with enough time for extracurricular activities as well as rigorous academic pursuits. And honestly we don't even have THAT, here in Texas. Marching band takes up the entirety of my kids' time that can be devoted to extracurricular activities. When I was a high school student in Texas, I was in band, drama, and choir. But now, with the way both the co-curricular classroom time is allotted, and with the amount of extracurricular time marching band commands, my children have been forced to decide between band and pretty much any other extracurricular activity. They love band, and I love that they love it and happily encourage them to work at it as hard as they can. I participate in the parent-pit-crew for my kids' band, and to date since August I've spent around 100 volunteer hours doing so. I was in band, and I believe in band. But I'd certainly be opposed to marching band taking up any MORE time, than it currently does. What on Earth are you talking about? Expand I know you have no Idea. Wasn't speaking to you. Go ahead and continue your rants. Get it out of your system. Your opinions are only valuable to you. You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that. I'm sure you will not. Quote
utee94 Posted November 21, 2023 Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 10:03 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said: I know you have no Idea. Wasn't speaking to you. Go ahead and continue your rants. Get it out of your system. Your opinions are only valuable to you. You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that. I'm sure you will not. Expand Is this message board for insults rather than discussion? Most message forums I've encountered, encourage discussion, rather than trying to shut it down with arrogance and insults. I've stated my opinion, you can certainly state yours. That's how discussion works. You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that. I'm sure you will not. Hard Core Band Fan 1 Quote
Hard Core Band Fan Posted November 21, 2023 Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 10:11 PM, utee94 said: Is this message board for insults rather than discussion? Most message forums I've encountered, encourage discussion, rather than trying to shut it down with arrogance and insults. I've stated my opinion, you can certainly state yours. That's how discussion works. You might spend a moment or two to reflect on that. I'm sure you will not. Expand Hilarious response, just as expected. utee94 1 Quote
utee94 Posted November 21, 2023 Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 10:19 PM, Hard Core Band Fan said: Hilarious response, just as expected. Expand Further insults, zero discussion, just as expected. Hard Core Band Fan 1 Quote
WoodlandsMom4ever Posted November 22, 2023 Posted November 22, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 9:10 PM, lost said: Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that. Expand common English translation? I have similar thoughts to what has been stated. I wouldn’t want the 8 hour rule to go away. I don’t have to worry about it anymore- but I do think it’s important for kids to have time to be well rounded with multiple things they do and are interested in- and school is just one of those things. The pressure academically is so much when you have large schools. You can be smart- incredibly smart and taking advanced classes and getting a’s… and still not be in the top 30% of your class. 8 hours of practice does not mean just 8 hours of band per week. It’s 8 hours of after school practice- 5 days with about an hour of in class fundamentals (music or skills- no drill because their marching pad is covered in students cars). A football game that takes the entire day after school till almost midnight by the time they head home- sometimes on a Thursday with school the next day (sure 1 hour afterschool they are “off” but they are all at school- there’s no going home and coming back those days). Then the competition weekends thankfully are limited- because that’s the entire Saturday. The 8 hour rule is for all sports and extracurriculars in Texas. Because Texas is competitive like no other place I’ve lived. (And I’ve lived in east/south/west states- 9 total) if it were to be taken away it would only make students lives harder and harder to balance. LeanderMomma and utee94 2 Quote
Popular Post Vidal28 Posted November 22, 2023 Popular Post Posted November 22, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 12:13 AM, WoodlandsMom4ever said: common English translation? I have similar thoughts to what has been stated. I wouldn’t want the 8 hour rule to go away. I don’t have to worry about it anymore- but I do think it’s important for kids to have time to be well rounded with multiple things they do and are interested in- and school is just one of those things. The pressure academically is so much when you have large schools. You can be smart- incredibly smart and taking advanced classes and getting a’s… and still not be in the top 30% of your class. 8 hours of practice does not mean just 8 hours of band per week. It’s 8 hours of after school practice- 5 days with about an hour of in class fundamentals (music or skills- no drill because their marching pad is covered in students cars). A football game that takes the entire day after school till almost midnight by the time they head home- sometimes on a Thursday with school the next day (sure 1 hour afterschool they are “off” but they are all at school- there’s no going home and coming back those days). Then the competition weekends thankfully are limited- because that’s the entire Saturday. The 8 hour rule is for all sports and extracurriculars in Texas. Because Texas is competitive like no other place I’ve lived. (And I’ve lived in east/south/west states- 9 total) if it were to be taken away it would only make students lives harder and harder to balance. Expand I’ve definitely shifted away my advocacy for an 8-hour rule change and more so think the limiting restrictions on the combined August 1st/10 hr visual instruction rule is something that I think should be loosened more. It’s a lot more arbitrary and less explicable than the 8-hour rule in my opinion. The position I have and advocate for wouldn’t mean uniform increases in summer band demand across the board, just more choice and variation in how programs decide how the time for their ensemble will be spent. I think that’s more reasonable in the summertime, I also advocate and stress for student safety and would want programs who embark on increases in summer band loads to ensure that students aren’t negatively affected by the more grueling summers we’ve been having lately, as much of that additional activity to be indoors, especially when it’s visual training. I would definitely agree that with large schools, successful schools especially that everything has more of a time commitment, athletics, fine arts, academics, boatloads of extracurriculars that divide students’ attention every way, we can only imagine how many hours it takes to make that Woodlands machine hum like it does, students are only taking on more nowadays. Really makes you wonder how other schools make it to where weekend rehearsals during marching season, lengthier band camps are received. Zil, WoodlandsMom4ever and utee94 3 Quote
Popular Post FEDude Posted November 22, 2023 Popular Post Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) I suspect the law of decreasing marginal returns would come into effect after 8 hours. Would a Texas band be able to put up a visual package that can compete with Avon or Broken Arrow? I think they could and have with the time restriction. Is the time per week really what's holding Texas back visually? I'm not personally convinced. LD Bell's and Reagan's shows from the 2000 proved Texas can do demanding drill with an 8 hour restriction. TWHS has stunning guard work every season. I personally think Reagan would've swept every caption had they gone to nats in 2019. I think the answer is prioritizing the visual package more than is currently done. Also, relating more closely to the discussion, the 8 hour rule kept me sane in high school. My grades were not the best, I wasn't in any other extracurricular activity, and I only squeaked out 5 hours of sleep a night. There are a lot of people that managed their time more effectively, and at many schools the valedictorian is often a band kid. At my school though, from my graduating class of 700, not a single active band kid (there was one that quit earlier in high school) was in the top 10. I don't regret being in band. It enriched my life in a great way. I'm glad rehearsals were limited to 8 hours though (considering my Fridays and Saturdays were taken up by football games and competitions). Edited November 22, 2023 by FEDude Added a bit for relevancy WoodlandsMom4ever, Zil, utee94 and 1 other 4 Quote
Popular Post tubapop Posted November 22, 2023 Popular Post Posted November 22, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 9:10 PM, lost said: Other states have been doing this for years, to take away the educational experience of an increase in having to be taught to manage responsibilities it is puzzling to advocate for that. Expand It's not puzzling at all. My children are high achievers. They are in as many AP and honors classes as their schedules will allow. They go to bed at midnight and wake at 5am every single day, and sometimes my son goes to bed at 2am, wakes at 5am, and sneaks in a nap during the day. At the end of the semester, during finals, they are so stressed they eventually break down sobbing. I encourage them to take fewer honors classes but they refuse. My daughter spends countless hours practicing in band, attending football games, going to contests. The week of 6a state/boasa was rough on her because she was gone for nearly an entire school week, then fell sick and missed more school, and had to make it all up without missing the NEW material that was being taught. I don't know if Lost and Hardcorebandfan have children, but if you're a parent, part of your job is teaching your children healthy ways to cope with stress and maintain good mental health. And that often means saying no to things to simplify your life. So yeah, I agree that teaching them to juggle a lot of balls at once is a valuable life skill, but another valuable life skill is understanding when you are at your limit and slashing things from your life that are diminishing your mental health. WoodlandsMom4ever, celesta, utee94 and 2 others 5 Quote
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