UIL 6A 2023 State Marching Band Contest (Oct. 30. & 31)

[crunchycookie3]

Considering how hard UIL was on Lovejoy this year and Wakeland last year, I’m very surprised at the alleged leniency for Waxahachie. As many others have stated above, what is the point of having the rule if you’re going to allow a 2-second grace period? If it had been 5 seconds over, would there have been a 5-second grace period? One can’t help but wonder.

[ChristopherRoden]

16 minutes ago, crunchycookie3 said:

Considering how hard UIL was on Lovejoy this year and Wakeland last year, I’m very surprised at the alleged leniency for Waxahachie. As many others have stated above, what is the point of having the rule if you’re going to allow a 2-second grace period? If it had been 5 seconds over, would there have been a 5-second grace period? One can’t help but wonder.

Furthermore, would this leniency have been extended to a non-finalist bubble band? 

[BandFan95]

12 minutes ago, JMR2022 said:

Yes, but it appears that Dr Kent is just going to ignore it and hope it will go away. that is where their statement came from that they felt it could have been a timekeeper issue - even with a time stamp.

 

And knowing this, you STILL are on the soapbox regarding CTJ getting robbed and Wax getting disqualified?

I'm going to ask all of you all something. How many of you have volunteered to work in the press box to work the clock or work as an announcer? It's all done by parents and volunteers. No one gets paid to do it. Maybe the announcers get to do it at the state level but that's it. Knowing that, the level of pressure to do this correctly for the timekeepers is high. I remember the first year I worked as an announcer for a competition, the timekeepers would start the clock as soon as the band started. We had to correct them on more than one occasion and remind them they get that time regardless. We had to restart the clock for a band at another competition. Why? Because people make mistakes all the time because they are human. 

 

[LostChoirGuy]

It's also worth noting that the examples given of previous infractions going over time all happened prior to coming to state.  The state competition isn't as concerned with it as these bands have all earned their way here already and done so keeping within the time limit.  In finals, they don't even do a timer.

[lost]

Timing leniency has always existed for the state contest.

Having watched state contests since 2015 there are more than 10~ or so bands I can remember “going over” but not being penalized. This applies 1A - 6A.

UIL has always been stricter for region and area, for whatever their reasons may be. 

This is not a special circumstance granted to Waxahachie. It just represents the continued trend of leniency at the state contest. Don’t ask me why it’s like this, that’s just the trends and how it’s been.

[bandfam1234]

CTJ parent here!  Just came on to say that all of the bands did amazing at semi-finals and should be so proud of their accomplishments regardless if they were 1st or 40th. It was an impressive display of talent and creativity and we will be cheering y'all on in the finals. GO TEAM TEXAS!

[JustABandDad]

My question is if Midland or another non-finalist school would have went over would they have had the same leniency granted to them

[JMR2022]

16 minutes ago, BandFan95 said:

And knowing this, you STILL are on the soapbox regarding CTJ getting robbed and Wax getting disqualified?

I'm going to ask all of you all something. How many of you have volunteered to work in the press box to work the clock or work as an announcer? It's all done by parents and volunteers. No one gets paid to do it. Maybe the announcers get to do it at the state level but that's it. Knowing that, the level of pressure to do this correctly for the timekeepers is high. I remember the first year I worked as an announcer for a competition, the timekeepers would start the clock as soon as the band started. We had to correct them on more than one occasion and remind them they get that time regardless. We had to restart the clock for a band at another competition. Why? Because people make mistakes all the time because they are human. 

 

I am not pushing for Wax to get disqualified - once they were announced you cannot pull them back - not fair to the kids - but CTJ should have been added. they all play by the same rules - as noted above, CTJ starts their show prior to their announcement to meet that same rule - everyone adjusts for the UIL 5 minute min - 8 minute max.  I am more than aware that there are a great deal of unpaid volunteers at these events - as I will spend my entire weekend at the dome for BOA-SA as I have done for years. the fact remains that there is a rule that was bent - UIL made accommodations for WAX but not for CTJ. either enforce the rule or do away with it 

[tubapop]

59 minutes ago, AWF2014 said:

Cy Woods parent here. Congratulations to both Bridgeland and CY Fair! I’m so happy to see CY Fair isd in finals!!! Best of luck today!

Thank you for the wonderful note, and best wishes to Cy Woods at BOA! Let's all represent CFISD and Houston!

[washedupalum2017]

how has the livestream been? considering subscribing for finals...

[lost]

22 minutes ago, JustABandDad said:

My question is if Midland or another non-finalist school would have went over would they have had the same leniency granted to them

Yes and it has happened in the past, you just don’t hear about it because those programs are under less scrutiny and this forum doesn’t put their every move under a microscope.

[contrabassclarinet]

4 minutes ago, washedupalum2017 said:

how has the livestream been? considering subscribing for finals...

still not as good as the other providers but a significant step up from last year

[Dallas Hobbs]

2 minutes ago, washedupalum2017 said:

how has the livestream been? considering subscribing for finals...

Definitely better than last year. I feel that the camera panning and zooming is more purposeful, as in the camera points to the important parts at the right time. Feels like the technicians are more experienced 

[lost]

This idea about leniency is silly, considering with UIL’s own rules they kept out a likely 5A finalist in 2019 and then the very likely Area winner with Wakeland last year.

[TxBlueBariXD]

8 minutes ago, washedupalum2017 said:

how has the livestream been? considering subscribing for finals...

It’s been A+. Much better than last year’s.

[TxBlueBariXD]

17 minutes ago, JMR2022 said:

I am not pushing for Wax to get disqualified - once they were announced you cannot pull them back - not fair to the kids - but CTJ should have been added. they all play by the same rules - as noted above, CTJ starts their show prior to their announcement to meet that same rule - everyone adjusts for the UIL 5 minute min - 8 minute max.  I am more than aware that there are a great deal of unpaid volunteers at these events - as I will spend my entire weekend at the dome for BOA-SA as I have done for years. the fact remains that there is a rule that was bent - UIL made accommodations for WAX but not for CTJ. either enforce the rule or do away with it 

From what was stated yesterday; it appears there was no time violation; so how is that unfair to CTJ?

[BlastFromThePast]

6 minutes ago, washedupalum2017 said:

how has the livestream been? considering subscribing for finals...

Was pretty good for the most part during prelims, definitely worth $12. I wish the ensemble field mics could be better -- the audio is a bit muddy. But it is hard to mic an entire band that's moving around a large field...

[Miyazuu]

29 minutes ago, JMR2022 said:

I am not pushing for Wax to get disqualified - once they were announced you cannot pull them back - not fair to the kids - but CTJ should have been added. they all play by the same rules - as noted above, CTJ starts their show prior to their announcement to meet that same rule - everyone adjusts for the UIL 5 minute min - 8 minute max.  I am more than aware that there are a great deal of unpaid volunteers at these events - as I will spend my entire weekend at the dome for BOA-SA as I have done for years. the fact remains that there is a rule that was bent - UIL made accommodations for WAX but not for CTJ. either enforce the rule or do away with it 

At this point "CTJ should've been added" is just cope. Waxahachie performed well, that's why they got ranked at 14th. Even if waxahachie DIDN'T go over we probably wouldn't have seen CTJ in finals as the results show. The time accomodation is such a trivial thing in regards to who should and shouldn't be in finals. 

It's alright to be upset CTJ didn't make finals but this whole "let's add an extra spot and waxahachie should've been reprimanded" is so... unnecessary..

Just to add- the basis of "well they made finals every year since 2010" doesn't really hold weight as we've seen this year. Cedar Ridge was a bronze medalist and couldn't even make it to state. Reputation doesn't mean things are owed. 

[tubapop]

21 minutes ago, Miyazuu said:

 Reputation doesn't mean things are owed. 

1000%

[bandfam1234]

35 minutes ago, Miyazuu said:

At this point "CTJ should've been added" is just cope. Waxahachie performed well, that's why they got ranked at 14th. Even if waxahachie DIDN'T go over we probably wouldn't have seen CTJ in finals as the results show. The time accomodation is such a trivial thing in regards to who should and shouldn't be in finals. 

It's alright to be upset CTJ didn't make finals but this whole "let's add an extra spot and waxahachie should've been reprimanded" is so... unnecessary..

Just to add- the basis of "well they made finals every year since 2010" doesn't really hold weight as we've seen this year. Cedar Ridge was a bronze medalist and couldn't even make it to state. Reputation doesn't mean things are owed. 

One of the greatest lessons we can teach our kids is to lose with grace and to learn from every experience. Many of the bands that did not make it to finals today are at BOA this weekend. I think we will see a lot of focus. As band supporters, we should never diminish the place that another band earns. ❤️

[TacosNSalsa]

32 minutes ago, Miyazuu said:

At this point "CTJ should've been added" is just cope. Waxahachie performed well, that's why they got ranked at 14th. Even if waxahachie DIDN'T go over we probably wouldn't have seen CTJ in finals as the results show. The time accomodation is such a trivial thing in regards to who should and shouldn't be in finals. 

It's alright to be upset CTJ didn't make finals but this whole "let's add an extra spot and waxahachie should've been reprimanded" is so... unnecessary..

Just to add- the basis of "well they made finals every year since 2010" doesn't really hold weight as we've seen this year. Cedar Ridge was a bronze medalist and couldn't even make it to state. Reputation doesn't mean things are owed. 

They are two different issues. Agree completely.

The biggest concern is that if a timing penalty was ignored for one band, but it was upheld for several other schools - what is the factor used to make this decision? I don't want to see kids disqualified - that said, if Wax went over, they should have been DQ, and the next band in line (whoever it is) moves up. Those are the rules. In the past, UIL has been clear about things like this at Area and Region - bands who go even one second over, whether its clock operator error, director error, or whatever, have been disqualified. If we are going to show leniency at state, then that should be in the rules. Personally, I do not think the 8:00 thing is worth the stress it creates, but that's neither here nor there it is the rule on the books and others have been held to it.

UIL has so many rules that are restrictive and stressful, that all of the bands who stayed within 8:00 yesterday made necessary accommodations to do so. But, the message communicated when rules are not enforced evenly is that they apply to some, not all.

The solution yesterday could have been to advance the 14 bands who earned it playing by the rules, and a special accommodation made for Wax. But, if that precedent is set, then it should be adhered to going forward.

Sorry for everyone dealing with this. Cooler heads will prevail. Be kind to one another. Kids read this stuff.

 

 

[lost]

8 minutes ago, TacosNSalsa said:

They are two different issues. Agree completely.

The biggest concern is that if a timing penalty was ignored for one band, but it was upheld for several other schools - what is the factor used to make this decision? I don't want to see kids disqualified - that said, if Wax went over, they should have been DQ, and the next band in line (whoever it is) moves up. Those are the rules. In the past, UIL has been clear about things like this at Area and Region - bands who go even one second over, whether its clock operator error, director error, or whatever, have been disqualified. If we are going to show leniency at state, then that should be in the rules. Personally, I do not think the 8:00 thing is worth the stress it creates, but that's neither here nor there it is the rule on the books and others have been held to it.

UIL has so many rules that are restrictive and stressful, that all of the bands who stayed within 8:00 yesterday made necessary accommodations to do so. But, the message communicated when rules are not enforced evenly is that they apply to some, not all.

The solution yesterday could have been to advance the 14 bands who earned it playing by the rules, and a special accommodation made for Wax. But, if that precedent is set, then it should be adhered to going forward.

Sorry for everyone dealing with this. Cooler heads will prevail. Be kind to one another. Kids read this stuff.

 

 

There is no special accommodation needed to be made for wax because it was declared Wax did in fact meet the timing rules lol. I hate to say it, but the people repeating this narrative are making a really bad name for the CTJ program.

[BandFan95]

10 minutes ago, TacosNSalsa said:

They are two different issues. Agree completely.

The biggest concern is that if a timing penalty was ignored for one band, but it was upheld for several other schools - what is the factor used to make this decision? I don't want to see kids disqualified - that said, if Wax went over, they should have been DQ, and the next band in line (whoever it is) moves up. Those are the rules. In the past, UIL has been clear about things like this at Area and Region - bands who go even one second over, whether its clock operator error, director error, or whatever, have been disqualified. If we are going to show leniency at state, then that should be in the rules. Personally, I do not think the 8:00 thing is worth the stress it creates, but that's neither here nor there it is the rule on the books and others have been held to it.

UIL has so many rules that are restrictive and stressful, that all of the bands who stayed within 8:00 yesterday made necessary accommodations to do so. But, the message communicated when rules are not enforced evenly is that they apply to some, not all.

The solution yesterday could have been to advance the 14 bands who earned it playing by the rules, and a special accommodation made for Wax. But, if that precedent is set, then it should be adhered to going forward.

Sorry for everyone dealing with this. Cooler heads will prevail. Be kind to one another. Kids read this stuff.

 

 

See, normally I'd agree with this whole premise, however, we are all going on what is being said here, on a message board. Not to say it isn't absolutely true, but it's still message board fodder and I think that I know one of y'all in real life. 

 

So color me skeptical of everything I read on the internet. We don't know the details. We don't know EXACTLY what happened. We know something something something something OMG TIME something CTJ something something.

 

OK. Have a great one y'all.

[TacosNSalsa]

5 minutes ago, BandFan95 said:

See, normally I'd agree with this whole premise, however, we are all going on what is being said here, on a message board. Not to say it isn't absolutely true, but it's still message board fodder and I think that I know one of y'all in real life. 

 

So color me skeptical of everything I read on the internet. We don't know the details. We don't know EXACTLY what happened. We know something something something something OMG TIME something CTJ something something.

 

OK. Have a great one y'all.

Also true, I used the term "if" specifically because I am reacting and responding to what is coming from the board and people who were attending the event yesterday.

[PercussionDad]

1 hour ago, JMR2022 said:

I am not pushing for Wax to get disqualified - once they were announced you cannot pull them back - not fair to the kids - but CTJ should have been added. they all play by the same rules - as noted above, CTJ starts their show prior to their announcement to meet that same rule - everyone adjusts for the UIL 5 minute min - 8 minute max.  I am more than aware that there are a great deal of unpaid volunteers at these events - as I will spend my entire weekend at the dome for BOA-SA as I have done for years. the fact remains that there is a rule that was bent - UIL made accommodations for WAX but not for CTJ. either enforce the rule or do away with it 

No one is owed a spot in finals. There is a long history of leniency at state for issues. New Diana’s drum major freezing up and the director having to go on the field and start the band. Ronald Reagan several years ago with electronics issues that started 3 minutes late. A balloon being accidentally released during prelims at the Alamodome years ago. I believe the directors received a warning in those cases. 
 

As good as CTJ was, they didn’t make the top 14. End of story.